golfnutintib

First let me apologize for asking current 993 owners to give their thoughts here without me doing an exhaustive search. I would like current feedback given my getting a new-again-to-me 70k miles 1997 Carrera 2S coming to me from the East Coast in a week or two. The car is almost 20 years old, and I would prefer advice from current owners whom are dealing with their cars at their current ages, even if they are well cared for examples.

I owned a 1996 Carrera for several years in the late '90s after buying it brand new back then once PAG announced the 996 models -- that car was left bone stock, then sold several years later. So even though I am reuniting with another 993 after a long absence (this time a wide-tail model!! ), I have no experience at all modifying/upgrading a 993 chassis. In the meanwhile, I have gotten experience tracking cars and my driving skill has improved quite a bit with plenty of track seat time accumulated in the past several years. Also, in the meanwhile, the 993's have aged, and I am sure the suspension (along with numerous other items) on the car can stand a refresh once I have the car in hand -- I am OCD with cars and like things tip-top -- certainly the bushings (Walrod's all the way, as I have learned so far).

My intentions with this car are 95% road (all weekend blasts and fun drives, no DD use) and a very occasional track jaunt. On the track I won't be driving her past 8/10th's. I have 997 and 991 GT3's for intensive track use, thankfully.

I would also like to lower the car, say 1 inch or so, from the stock stance to let it sit prettier. For this alone (and to improve how the car handles) I anticipate getting coil-overs to make the ride height adjustable.

Given all the above, I would appreciate current 993 owners' overall advice on what suspension upgrades I should consider.

More specifically:

1) Bilstein PSS10's? KW V3's? H&R's? Other options? I don't think I would do classic lowering springs and shocks, unless other RL'ers would recommend such, as they allow just a fixed ride height change, and, in my experience, don't improve handling much over good condition Porsche stock shocks and springs.

2) Associated with the above question - are the standard suite of Tarett or Elephant Racing adjustable links and arms needed for my intended use mainly doing spirited road driving? This not being a track car, I am assuming I can pass on the monoball this and monoball that...

To me this is a classic car. I am not going to mod the engine. It is not that powerful of a car by modern standards. But I would like her to handle as well as reasonably possible when I take her out on the backroads on weekend mornings to stretch her legs.

Any advice or thoughts (or links to particularly good past threads on this topic) would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

KeninBlaine

I look forward to seeing the responses to this question, as I'm in the same situation.

I recently acquired a 96 C4S with 101k, and as expected the original Monroe shocks are very tired. Someone in the past installed Eibach springs (I think they are the Pro, as they are black, with number 7209.00s on them). I've been researching the benefits of going with PSS10's vs HD's vs Koni FSD's etc. My use and expectations of the car are almost identical to the OP, except I'm likely a lot older so may have fewer years of enjoyment of the car. I'd likely just get the PSS10's if I were younger and expected to get another 20 years of fun out of it. But I'm expecting maybe 10 years, and the cost (around $2700) for the PSS10's is hard for me to justify. I'm contemplating just getting the Koni FSD shocks and re-use my Eibachs. The FSD's are on sale for as low as $805 until Aug 31. That is almost $2000 less than the PSS10's. From what I can determine, this solution will maintain my current lowered stance, and provide much better shocks than my worn-out Monroes. I'm also going to replace my front bushings with Walrods, and perhaps install Tarett rear toe control arms to allow more rear adjustment with the lowered height.

jscott82

Pss10 is certainly a great option. But for a 90% street car, I would take a look at Bilstien HD shocks and M033 springs. Its simple cheap and factory.

jscott82

If you decide on the pss10 route, and only go an inch lower, the kit is complete. I don't think you need any other pieces. I would not put monoball anything on it.

If you want to go lower, you may need new drop links in the rear..

race911

It's all too personal. I was perfectly fine running the 4S with its 125K mile suspension right after getting out of the Radical or 910. To a certain extent, you run what you brung--even on the street.

Now what I will say is that in today's near-$70K price of entry for any widebody, I'm not sure I see where $1-2K is a deal breaker on getting the car where YOU most enjoy it.

My simplest suggestion? Give Steve Weiner a call.

Knight

Welcome back to the 993!

This site from a RLister offers some great insight.

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/9...uspension.html

Now what needs to be address is going to greatly vary between cars. I will say just over time some of the rubber bits/bushings in the suspension of course won't perform like it was factory delivered. Plenty of posts from Bill Verburg offer lots of valuable info on the suspension too.

Get yourself into a shop that knows 993s would be a good start, they can look at the following:

Front tie rods
All rear suspension arms (bushings + ball joints)
Rear subframe mounts

PSS10s or KWs are probably overkill but they both are a great setup. Overall I find they ride alot more smoother vs H&Rs. Sounds like you spend some decent time on the track in your other 911s you'll probably have a good idea on how your 993 should drive and be setup even for spirited road use. The coilovers will give you more adjust-ability if needed.

The whole suspension upgrade can be a very slippery slope!

golfnutintib

Thank you all and thank you especially Knight... the Jackal's pages are exceptionally clear and concise and gives a wonderful view of what should be done and how to do it - I am not the type to turn the wrenches myself but it is illuminating to see the steps that a good shop will follow.

For me it is a long way home to back to a 993 but lovely road traveled. It will be very interesting to see how I perceive/enjoy the 993 driving experience again after having now had many more modern cars in road as well as track environments in the intervening years.

A few follow on questions:

Ride height -- is the Carrera RS ride height a practical everyday ride height for a street driven 993? At the very bottom of Jackal's page he shows his completed yellow 993 - is that car set at the RS height or at the Sport/M030 height? I think that height looks perfect from an aesthetic perspective. I am not into slamming cars but remember that my old 993 at stock height definitely seemed 'on stilts'.

Camber - I see in Jackal's notes that even at RS ride height neg camber is only -1 front and rear. In my more modern Porsche's I have come to believe -1.5 to -2 camber is a good middle-ground neg camber amount for spirited road driving and track use, and also allows decent tire wear. Are non-standard rear control arms needed for neg camber > -1 on 993's?

And yes indeed I have bruises on my butt from the slippery slope with 997 GT3 track suspension set up. Monoballs, Motons, Tarett kit...it is quite an undertaking in time and cost but I must say... in this case you definitely get what you pay for...a properly equipped and prepped car is nothing short of brilliant!!!!

Thanks again for everyone's help and input.

fatmike

US ride height is very high (on stilts). Definitely too high.

I (and quite a few here) run RoW which means "rest of world". This is a good all around ride height for these cars and how they were intended from the factory.

RS is quite low. It requires some changes in components to make the geometry work.

Some folks run RS+10 (middle ground from RS to RoW) which is also very low but perhaps more sustainable for an everyday car.


/

fatmike

Just keep in mind the 20 year old rubber in the suspension has degraded. Your goal should be to "modernize" the suspension and restore it.

It's actually worth spending some time searching this forum as there are a number of known weak spots in the suspension (front control arm bushings, Tie-rods, etc.) and plenty of discussion of how to address those things.

Monoballs for this and that are absolutely an option - not so much because you want a race car, but because what's on the car has likely degraded and you need a replacement part.


/

Bill Verburg

RoW M030 ride height is great for what you describe
here is my car when I bought it, RoW M030 w/ 9 & 10 x18 225/40 & 265/36 tires


PSS10 are fine for street use as are Bilstein B6 hd, the PSS10 will be somwhat better but also somewhat more expensive. The nice thing about PSS10 is you get a complete engineered package springs and all.

For sporting use the RS got it right, emulate an RS for best sporting street setup.
the difference between RS and normal is shocks(RS used Bilsteins) and bushes(RS used stiffer bushes at 3 points: trailing leg of front and rear A arms and KT arm)
The best street setup I ever drove is Bilstein shocks(custom valved but PSS10 are going to be close) Elephant sport bushes on both front A arm legs, RS rear A arm and RS rear KT arm w/ new rear camber and toe arms.

have a shop that can set KT w/ the Porsche Motorsport tool do the alignment and corner balance.

At RoW height don't bother w/ the rear subframe mounts.

use at least 8" front and 10" rear wheels x18, 8.5 and 11 would be even better

Ron

I have a low mileage 18 year old C2S. The H&R coil over's with time became increasingly unsatisfactory. Stiff and did not seem to have much in the way of controlled compression that would make the car stick to the road well. About a month ago I put on Bilstein pss10's which improved both the handling and the comfort dramatically. I do need to add that I do not track my car at all. If you do that this upgrade you can also change the brake lines at the same time mine appeared new. i cutting them apart to see if there is any dry inside and I found none but once everything was a part I replaced them anyway.

IXLR8

There is plenty of info on that on this forum, unfortunately most of it vague at best.



I have seen a few Bilstein B6 installations in my area using Porsche lowering springs and they cannot even attain ROW M030. They are sitting 10 mm lower in the rear and that is the highest they can go because they run out of adjustment threads. That is fine for those wanting the slammed look, but not for the owner who actually wants to sit at 144 front and 127 rear.

The question to ask is lower from what, US ride height (both standard and M030 are the same) or ROW standard ride height.

JPS

Personally I would go pss10 RS + 10, check all the bushings. Don't go to crazy on the camber as you will make the car a bit darty on the street if your roads suck, as they do in NYC.

Pags993

^ agreed, exact same setup on my 95 C2. I settled on PSS10 based on the all in one kit and adjustability factor both in stiffness settings and ride height. Money very well spent IMHO.

MielsOnWheels

All great advice so far. I did the PSS10's, M030 ARBs, Walrod bushings, tie rods, ball joints, SS brake lines, and a quality alignment from an excellent P-car mechanic in my area. I could not be more pleased with install.