BEWARE OF VOLLKOMMEN DESIGN USA, OWNER DARREN YOO a.k.a CREAMINZ!!!
08-27-2015, 02:20 AM
#46
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
just to throw another opinion into the grinder here: why do we care so much about what other people do to their cars? sure, the debate makes for fun internet reading while on my lunch break, but isn't the fun of this hobby the ability and freedom to express ourselves through our cars? What's fuels my passion project after project the process of envisioning something, build it, and drive the hell out of it!
If a guy wants to cut up some fenders, bolt some other stuff on, and paint it neon pink, why not? Or if a guy just wants to keep their looking like the day it did when it rolled off the factory production line, why not? To each his own, and neither is more "stupid" than the other (at least in my eyes)
I'm a fan of Akira Nakai, and what he has accomplished. Here's my take, copied and pasted from something I wrote a while go concerning if things are "neat" under the screaming body modifications:
I'm in the process of cutting up a '90 964 myself...I've envisioned a duck tail wide body cab, 400+hp to the wheels, suspension + brakes to match, and a surfboard rack. I call her, 911 California Surf Special
If a guy wants to cut up some fenders, bolt some other stuff on, and paint it neon pink, why not? Or if a guy just wants to keep their looking like the day it did when it rolled off the factory production line, why not? To each his own, and neither is more "stupid" than the other (at least in my eyes)
I'm a fan of Akira Nakai, and what he has accomplished. Here's my take, copied and pasted from something I wrote a while go concerning if things are "neat" under the screaming body modifications:
I'm in the process of cutting up a '90 964 myself...I've envisioned a duck tail wide body cab, 400+hp to the wheels, suspension + brakes to match, and a surfboard rack. I call her, 911 California Surf Special
i find michael M and nile13's debate/argument rather interesting, cordial and intellectual. i dont think they will ever agree but the ability to discuss and agree to disagree help us to learn from each other and absorb more knowledge.
i am a fan of nakai and i met him 2x. great guy, clearly needs no sleep works nonstop and loves his work.
RWB japan racing once, twice, or three times a year is not important. but their passion for their car is what i admire. while some may say it's blind passoini. well, most of us are blindly loving porsches. let's face it, i get a C6 Z06 put 50k in it, it will blow the doors off my RS. but i have RS not Z06... so i am blind as well.
i think the criticism (now i am putting words in other's mouth...) of RWB is really not criticism of the RWB brand, but rather a criticism of those who "blindly" buying RBW in CA mostly. RWB is distributed out from CA. many of them simply dont understand the cars (the owners). they buy it b/c it's the current "rage" (i am starting the MOOTY's harems shortly. i have my brand up soon and it will be the next rage, feel free to criticize
) since they aren't real car ppl, they figure put some fenders on and be "cool". that results in liberty walk, blh blah bah.... cars sitting too low (i came from 80's where we cut springs b/c cant afford koni's i must have had -10* of camber due to cut springs, and i do have knight rider lights up front)... looking back i was a fkg idiot (likely still is), but i have a vision of what I wanted my car to be. some are into quarter milies, some do concurse, some race on track, some drive off canyons. all good. we all do things diferently but if you buy a RWB bc it's hot now, then that's sad. if you buy RWB b/c you have a "reason" to love it, then it's good. so on that note michale and nile are both "right"....would i buy a RWB car ? no. it's not my kind of dream.
do i respect nakai, yes.
do i respect the RWB flavor of the month buyers? no
oh, RWB does make fast cars. google leh keen's RWB. the car with leh with blow 90% of the cars on this forum asway, including 918's.
sorry for all the typo. but tyring to post my passion on iphone is not easy and even on real cmputer i suck at typing. but you get the point ;-)
08-27-2015, 03:55 AM
#47
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Mooty, thank you for well thought out and well put response. I agree with most of it, actually. And you are pretty right regarding the aim of criticism. Reminds me a little bit of Plymouth Prowler debates - would the custom hot rod crowd buy a production hot rod as it went against the very culture of custom creation of each one to your own likes.
PS. Mooty, I've learned that I can dictate, at least SMSs, to my Samsung S4. That made life a little easier than typing
PS. Mooty, I've learned that I can dictate, at least SMSs, to my Samsung S4. That made life a little easier than typing
08-27-2015, 06:06 AM
#48
Advanced
Michel, you've asked a key question, I think. "What's a good car builder". In my opinion, a good car builder is one who can do both of these: 1. Listen, understand and execute what the client wants" and 2. Have his own vision and understanding of how things could be and match it with client's vision.
From what I see, Nakai-san has his own vision and clients just follow. It seems that 99% just do it for looks and he's happy to oblige. Besides not liking the looks I, personally, dislike loss of function and loss of functional cars. Something tells me that RWB owners here or in Japan are mostly 'cars and coffee" types with incessant washing and waxing habits (which is funny as the car is made to look like a dirty smelly track beast).
Finally, I look at my 17 seasons of autocross addiction. I try to not be anywhere near leading edge, but even my lowly Miata today has cut-up body with 275/15 tires, homemade aero kit, 800 lb springs and other things that made it not street driveable. But this is purely form following function. My former student, current competitor and current National champion, has a Miata in the same class. It's about $100K of mods now, it breaks down 2-3 times in 6 miles of daily "racing" and it's... it's just right, it brings desired results.
Which brings us full circle back - what's a desired result for an RWB owner? Sy, above, describes a little bit of that, I think. It's owning something unique, maybe? Seeing the artist work first-hand? I can understand and appreciate that in the sense of art collecting. But here we run into the same problem - it's not quite unique any longer. It's now a conveyor of money making performance art that, again makes the car non-functional. This is extremely subjective and I can very well be wrong, or at least "don't understand", grated. I don't like Picasso for example, that doesn't make his work any less valuable or desirable, right? But... how many RWB owners "race" more than twice a year? Those "Idlers" on street car are just funny to me. And, somebody, please, please, explain the stickers.
PS. Prague. I was there in March again. Hope to be back next year.
From what I see, Nakai-san has his own vision and clients just follow. It seems that 99% just do it for looks and he's happy to oblige. Besides not liking the looks I, personally, dislike loss of function and loss of functional cars. Something tells me that RWB owners here or in Japan are mostly 'cars and coffee" types with incessant washing and waxing habits (which is funny as the car is made to look like a dirty smelly track beast).
Finally, I look at my 17 seasons of autocross addiction. I try to not be anywhere near leading edge, but even my lowly Miata today has cut-up body with 275/15 tires, homemade aero kit, 800 lb springs and other things that made it not street driveable. But this is purely form following function. My former student, current competitor and current National champion, has a Miata in the same class. It's about $100K of mods now, it breaks down 2-3 times in 6 miles of daily "racing" and it's... it's just right, it brings desired results.
Which brings us full circle back - what's a desired result for an RWB owner? Sy, above, describes a little bit of that, I think. It's owning something unique, maybe? Seeing the artist work first-hand? I can understand and appreciate that in the sense of art collecting. But here we run into the same problem - it's not quite unique any longer. It's now a conveyor of money making performance art that, again makes the car non-functional. This is extremely subjective and I can very well be wrong, or at least "don't understand", grated. I don't like Picasso for example, that doesn't make his work any less valuable or desirable, right? But... how many RWB owners "race" more than twice a year? Those "Idlers" on street car are just funny to me. And, somebody, please, please, explain the stickers.
PS. Prague. I was there in March again. Hope to be back next year.
Also the cars are not that common as You think, I think there are about 110-120 of them around the globe, probably less. That is still less than for example Pagani has made.
I'm curious if you actually read this URL that you've posted. "Again, where we ended up wasn’t the main point of the race". Not sure what the main point was, other than 30-minute DE stints _without using second gear or going over 5,800 RPM_, last the car will be "overly strained". Shaking out the car out before going onto some greater DE conquests? Great fights with stock looking white Civic with loud fart can? Something else? The resulting carnage, including catching on fire, breaking bodywork, multiple spins, etc, etc kind of speak for themselves. Stickers not a race car make.
One of my early track instructors once said: "Tomorrow you'll be the hero around the water cooler at the office, casually mentioning to people that you "raced" yesterday. You did not race. You participated in learning car control at a DE event. Just try to keep that in mind when all the accounting girls look at you with great admiration".
In short, this article accurately describes _everything_ that's wrong with RWB scene.
One of my early track instructors once said: "Tomorrow you'll be the hero around the water cooler at the office, casually mentioning to people that you "raced" yesterday. You did not race. You participated in learning car control at a DE event. Just try to keep that in mind when all the accounting girls look at you with great admiration".
In short, this article accurately describes _everything_ that's wrong with RWB scene.
So, on the contrary, this is what I think is exactly right with the heart of the RWB scene. The camarderie and the passion for the cars.
And until I see a 12 hours endurance event at Laguna Seca, where people are leting their RS/RSR/GT2 to be driven by people from across the globe that they barely know, only because they share the passion for Porsches, I can hardly see myself changing my mind on that one.
Mooty has put it absolutely perfect - the "problem" we are talking about does not lie in the RWB itself or Nakai-san. It is in the people who desire to build the car because they saw it on instagram, without understanding what the car and that RWB lettering is supposed to be. Which I agree might be quite uneasy to pick up...