BEWARE OF VOLLKOMMEN DESIGN USA, OWNER DARREN YOO a.k.a CREAMINZ!!!
08-25-2015, 08:08 PM
#31
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I agree that You either love the cars or hate them (I am in the first group) but I also think that the whole RWB movement is quite misunderstood and misinterpreted, especially in the States.
These cars in Japan are track rats that were ment to be quick, not pretty. Quite a lot of them have well developed suspension, engine, carbon body panels or sequential boxes and so on. They do get driven hard and they do get beaten up. And they are certainly not slow.
However, and with all due respect, I feel that the builds in the States are more garage and show queens than track cars which kind of defy the whole RWB spirit in my opinion, and distorts the picture what the RWB is actually suppose to be. No hate here, just thinking out loud.
These cars in Japan are track rats that were ment to be quick, not pretty. Quite a lot of them have well developed suspension, engine, carbon body panels or sequential boxes and so on. They do get driven hard and they do get beaten up. And they are certainly not slow.
However, and with all due respect, I feel that the builds in the States are more garage and show queens than track cars which kind of defy the whole RWB spirit in my opinion, and distorts the picture what the RWB is actually suppose to be. No hate here, just thinking out loud.
08-25-2015, 08:53 PM
#32
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Have you looked at RWB 993s in Japan? Can you, with a serious face, tell me that they are built for speed? If so, please point to some. There's been pics of Japan meets of RWB 993s. They are as horrible and ill thought out as anything in US. As a matter of fact, there's no difference. But I'd love to see some evidence to the contrary
On the other hand there is a time-slip available from a time attack event at Tsukuba, where the RWB 993 and 964 posted times of 58.8 and 1:01. respectively. While You can still argue that it is slow for a modified car, 458 Italie goes around at 1:02 and 997.2 GT3 at 1:01. And that is certainly not slow for me.
And yes, I will tell You with a serious face that the RWBs are built as a race cars. Yes, they are heavy influenced by japanase car culture, but still - they were built for racing.
08-25-2015, 09:08 PM
#33
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OK, this is getting to be pretty funny. Is there _any_ evidence that RWB does anything that make the car faster? Not time slips, you and I don't know what else had been done to those particular cars, in spite of RWB molestation. But any evidence that RWB builder has any thought or any clue about making a car faster? In other words, his aero makes the car slower until proven otherwise.
08-25-2015, 10:04 PM
#34
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OK, this is getting to be pretty funny. Is there _any_ evidence that RWB does anything that make the car faster? Not time slips, you and I don't know what else had been done to those particular cars, in spite of RWB molestation. But any evidence that RWB builder has any thought or any clue about making a car faster? In other words, his aero makes the car slower until proven otherwise.
That being said, it seems a decent number of the Japanese builds do have motor work done, albeit by another shop. I've seen a shop called promodet associated with RWB before. Looks to be a pretty serious shop too.
But yea... The U.S. Builds all seem to be show cars, not go cars. The math on these U.S. Cars is hilarious. Asking 150k for 40k cars with bodywork, paint, suspension and wheels.
08-26-2015, 12:09 AM
#35
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Ok, do we have any evidence that they know what they are doing with suspension? What do they install? How do they align? Do they put stickers on shocks?
08-26-2015, 03:28 AM
#36
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I agree that You either love the cars or hate them (I am in the first group) but I also think that the whole RWB movement is quite misunderstood and misinterpreted, especially in the States.
These cars in Japan are track rats that were ment to be quick, not pretty. Quite a lot of them have well developed suspension, engine, carbon body panels or sequential boxes and so on. They do get driven hard and they do get beaten up. And they are certainly not slow.
However, and with all due respect, I feel that the builds in the States are more garage and show queens than track cars which kind of defy the whole RWB spirit in my opinion, and distorts the picture what the RWB is actually suppose to be. No hate here, just thinking out loud.
What I wanted to say that cars in general are meant to be driven, not sitting around and looking pretty. While these two are not mutualy exclusive and while I fully respect people who see passion in preserving the original qualities these cars once had, I see no point in bashing people who see the matter otherwise.
These cars in Japan are track rats that were ment to be quick, not pretty. Quite a lot of them have well developed suspension, engine, carbon body panels or sequential boxes and so on. They do get driven hard and they do get beaten up. And they are certainly not slow.
However, and with all due respect, I feel that the builds in the States are more garage and show queens than track cars which kind of defy the whole RWB spirit in my opinion, and distorts the picture what the RWB is actually suppose to be. No hate here, just thinking out loud.
What I wanted to say that cars in general are meant to be driven, not sitting around and looking pretty. While these two are not mutualy exclusive and while I fully respect people who see passion in preserving the original qualities these cars once had, I see no point in bashing people who see the matter otherwise.
RWB california on the otherhand is the fleecing of a big brand name in japan. a few guys in calif understands RWB. but many really have no idea what cars is about let alone RWB.
THAT is the difference. it's not the style or genre of cars, it's the passion of a hobby that matters. i know little about american muscle, but i see and feel those guys passion and love and believe of the old 'stang and camero.... i dont see that in RWB california. other than show and tell plus brag.
sad really.
then you add this cream pie dude.... OMFG. what good could come out of it.
08-26-2015, 06:22 AM
#37
Advanced
concur.
i love RWB nippon. it's a culture, a believe, a cult and camaraderie that rise beyond just a CAR. it's a community and the cars are indeed raced. there is passion.
RWB california on the otherhand is the fleecing of a big brand name in japan. a few guys in calif understands RWB. but many really have no idea what cars is about let alone RWB.
THAT is the difference. it's not the style or genre of cars, it's the passion of a hobby that matters. i know little about american muscle, but i see and feel those guys passion and love and believe of the old 'stang and camero.... i dont see that in RWB california. other than show and tell plus brag.
sad really.
i love RWB nippon. it's a culture, a believe, a cult and camaraderie that rise beyond just a CAR. it's a community and the cars are indeed raced. there is passion.
RWB california on the otherhand is the fleecing of a big brand name in japan. a few guys in calif understands RWB. but many really have no idea what cars is about let alone RWB.
THAT is the difference. it's not the style or genre of cars, it's the passion of a hobby that matters. i know little about american muscle, but i see and feel those guys passion and love and believe of the old 'stang and camero.... i dont see that in RWB california. other than show and tell plus brag.
sad really.
OK, this is getting to be pretty funny. Is there _any_ evidence that RWB does anything that make the car faster? Not time slips, you and I don't know what else had been done to those particular cars, in spite of RWB molestation. But any evidence that RWB builder has any thought or any clue about making a car faster? In other words, his aero makes the car slower until proven otherwise.
If You omit time-slip from a circuit as a proof, what would You like to see as evidence? The 58.8 993 is the personal car of "that" RWB builder. It has 570 HP engine, custom Quantum suspension, gutted interior and rather large tyres thanks to the bodykit. The specs are on internet, they are no secret. Altough I of course have not meet him in person or talk to him, from the various sources it seems like he sets up his suspension and geometry himself.
But yes, if You break it all down what Nakai-san do is providing a body kit and custom suspension (Aragosta is used for majority of the builds). The other go-fast bits are entirely up to the owner of the car. On the other hand, slaping a EVO widebody on a standart C2 does not make the car ultra fast either, however You probably would not call that "ill thought out" but "beautiful tribute". And that was my whole point from the begining of this argument.
Besides, as Mooty perfectly said, there is quite a lot more to RWB than just the kit.
08-26-2015, 01:00 PM
#38
Drifting
For those curious here is Aragosta's spec sheet for suspension for P-Cars (and other non-Japanese makes):
http://www.tpl.co.jp/aragosta/import...s.html#Porsche
Some translation may be necessary.
http://www.tpl.co.jp/aragosta/import...s.html#Porsche
Some translation may be necessary.
08-26-2015, 03:26 PM
#39
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I see now that I might misunderstood Your point, I blame the language barrier...
If You omit time-slip from a circuit as a proof, what would You like to see as evidence? The 58.8 993 is the personal car of "that" RWB builder. It has 570 HP engine, custom Quantum suspension, gutted interior and rather large tyres thanks to the bodykit. The specs are on internet, they are no secret. Altough I of course have not meet him in person or talk to him, from the various sources it seems like he sets up his suspension and geometry himself.
But yes, if You break it all down what Nakai-san do is providing a body kit and custom suspension (Aragosta is used for majority of the builds). The other go-fast bits are entirely up to the owner of the car. On the other hand, slaping a EVO widebody on a standart C2 does not make the car ultra fast either, however You probably would not call that "ill thought out" but "beautiful tribute". And that was my whole point from the begining of this argument.
Besides, as Mooty perfectly said, there is quite a lot more to RWB than just the kit.
If You omit time-slip from a circuit as a proof, what would You like to see as evidence? The 58.8 993 is the personal car of "that" RWB builder. It has 570 HP engine, custom Quantum suspension, gutted interior and rather large tyres thanks to the bodykit. The specs are on internet, they are no secret. Altough I of course have not meet him in person or talk to him, from the various sources it seems like he sets up his suspension and geometry himself.
But yes, if You break it all down what Nakai-san do is providing a body kit and custom suspension (Aragosta is used for majority of the builds). The other go-fast bits are entirely up to the owner of the car. On the other hand, slaping a EVO widebody on a standart C2 does not make the car ultra fast either, however You probably would not call that "ill thought out" but "beautiful tribute". And that was my whole point from the begining of this argument.
Besides, as Mooty perfectly said, there is quite a lot more to RWB than just the kit.
Well, I can read a little bit, not speak. But I've been to Prague a lot and it's one of my favorite places on Earth.What I'm saying, and I'd very much would like to hear Mooty on this, that we have not seen anything other than cutting up cars from RWB. I did not see any description of what they do with suspension. Not sure what Aragosta is, but never hearing that name in 12 years of P-ownership and 17 years of no-P racing tells me that it's not something that I'd consider lightly. I'll give you an example. I have a competitor. A very fast one. He set up his car with home-valved shocks without help of a dyno. He is very, very fast in that car. I like many others, can't drive his car worth damn, it's nearly undrivable. He, on the other hand, can put a second on me in my ow car. Does all that make him a good car builder? Not really.
I kind of understand the idea of car culture in Japan. I kind of also know that Japanese society is extremely conformist even in their attempts in unconformity. In other words, there are a lot of old AE86 type casr with giant splitter and wings and front and side-exit multiple exhaust pipes, etc. All of it is a tribute, none of it is thought out in aerodynamic sense and it's very much like "stance" culture of South California or low rider culture of SoCal and Northern Mexico - all show and no go. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I appreciate the car culture, on the other... they are laughable caricatures with all automotive functionality remove. The point is, especially with Japan, that many things are simply lost in translation. The other thought is that over the last 70 years Japan consistently blindly copied Western technology and ideas, often not understanding them and as often eventually improving on them greatly. In this case, I believe that RWB "tributes" are "not understanding" rather than "improving".
Back to RWB cars. I'm sure it's possible to make a fast car out of anything. I believe the 58:X second car is fast in spite of that body kt, not because of it. And that's the whole point. We never see any proof that RWB makes cars faster. I venture to say that it makes them significantly slower.
My issue with RWB, specifically, is that they are doing it to classic Porsches. I would have zero issue if they did it to classic Skyline S32, for example. But Porsches, or Ferraris, or Jaguars or Alfas ... no. I can even agree to the fact that Nakai-san is an artist. Seriously, he clearly has a vision, he executes it and some people may find results beautiful to look at. If that's the case, one tribute car cut up and put in a museum would be enough. He's doing it on a conveyor line to dozens of cars. The only differentiator is stickers. That's not art any longer, not in my book.
As I've said, would love to hear Mooty's thoughts on the subject, it's entirely possible that I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first or last time
08-26-2015, 03:33 PM
#40
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For those curious here is Aragosta's spec sheet for suspension for P-Cars (and other non-Japanese makes):
http://www.tpl.co.jp/aragosta/import...s.html#Porsche
Some translation may be necessary.
http://www.tpl.co.jp/aragosta/import...s.html#Porsche
Some translation may be necessary.
08-26-2015, 06:15 PM
#41
Advanced
Michel, I'm not above understanding a little Czech Well, I can read a little bit, not speak. But I've been to Prague a lot and it's one of my favorite places on Earth.
What I'm saying, and I'd very much would like to hear Mooty on this, that we have not seen anything other than cutting up cars from RWB. I did not see any description of what they do with suspension. Not sure what Aragosta is, but never hearing that name in 12 years of P-ownership and 17 years of no-P racing tells me that it's not something that I'd consider lightly. I'll give you an example. I have a competitor. A very fast one. He set up his car with home-valved shocks without help of a dyno. He is very, very fast in that car. I like many others, can't drive his car worth damn, it's nearly undrivable. He, on the other hand, can put a second on me in my ow car. Does all that make him a good car builder? Not really.
I kind of understand the idea of car culture in Japan. I kind of also know that Japanese society is extremely conformist even in their attempts in unconformity. In other words, there are a lot of old AE86 type casr with giant splitter and wings and front and side-exit multiple exhaust pipes, etc. All of it is a tribute, none of it is thought out in aerodynamic sense and it's very much like "stance" culture of South California or low rider culture of SoCal and Northern Mexico - all show and no go. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I appreciate the car culture, on the other... they are laughable caricatures with all automotive functionality remove. The point is, especially with Japan, that many things are simply lost in translation. The other thought is that over the last 70 years Japan consistently blindly copied Western technology and ideas, often not understanding them and as often eventually improving on them greatly. In this case, I believe that RWB "tributes" are "not understanding" rather than "improving".
Back to RWB cars. I'm sure it's possible to make a fast car out of anything. I believe the 58:X second car is fast in spite of that body kt, not because of it. And that's the whole point. We never see any proof that RWB makes cars faster. I venture to say that it makes them significantly slower.
My issue with RWB, specifically, is that they are doing it to classic Porsches. I would have zero issue if they did it to classic Skyline S32, for example. But Porsches, or Ferraris, or Jaguars or Alfas ... no. I can even agree to the fact that Nakai-san is an artist. Seriously, he clearly has a vision, he executes it and some people may find results beautiful to look at. If that's the case, one tribute car cut up and put in a museum would be enough. He's doing it on a conveyor line to dozens of cars. The only differentiator is stickers. That's not art any longer, not in my book.
As I've said, would love to hear Mooty's thoughts on the subject, it's entirely possible that I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first or last time
Well, I can read a little bit, not speak. But I've been to Prague a lot and it's one of my favorite places on Earth.What I'm saying, and I'd very much would like to hear Mooty on this, that we have not seen anything other than cutting up cars from RWB. I did not see any description of what they do with suspension. Not sure what Aragosta is, but never hearing that name in 12 years of P-ownership and 17 years of no-P racing tells me that it's not something that I'd consider lightly. I'll give you an example. I have a competitor. A very fast one. He set up his car with home-valved shocks without help of a dyno. He is very, very fast in that car. I like many others, can't drive his car worth damn, it's nearly undrivable. He, on the other hand, can put a second on me in my ow car. Does all that make him a good car builder? Not really.
I kind of understand the idea of car culture in Japan. I kind of also know that Japanese society is extremely conformist even in their attempts in unconformity. In other words, there are a lot of old AE86 type casr with giant splitter and wings and front and side-exit multiple exhaust pipes, etc. All of it is a tribute, none of it is thought out in aerodynamic sense and it's very much like "stance" culture of South California or low rider culture of SoCal and Northern Mexico - all show and no go. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I appreciate the car culture, on the other... they are laughable caricatures with all automotive functionality remove. The point is, especially with Japan, that many things are simply lost in translation. The other thought is that over the last 70 years Japan consistently blindly copied Western technology and ideas, often not understanding them and as often eventually improving on them greatly. In this case, I believe that RWB "tributes" are "not understanding" rather than "improving".
Back to RWB cars. I'm sure it's possible to make a fast car out of anything. I believe the 58:X second car is fast in spite of that body kt, not because of it. And that's the whole point. We never see any proof that RWB makes cars faster. I venture to say that it makes them significantly slower.
My issue with RWB, specifically, is that they are doing it to classic Porsches. I would have zero issue if they did it to classic Skyline S32, for example. But Porsches, or Ferraris, or Jaguars or Alfas ... no. I can even agree to the fact that Nakai-san is an artist. Seriously, he clearly has a vision, he executes it and some people may find results beautiful to look at. If that's the case, one tribute car cut up and put in a museum would be enough. He's doing it on a conveyor line to dozens of cars. The only differentiator is stickers. That's not art any longer, not in my book.
As I've said, would love to hear Mooty's thoughts on the subject, it's entirely possible that I'm missing something. Wouldn't be the first or last time
Glad You like it here, it really is one of the most amazing cities in the world. If You come back someday, let me know, I am sure I can point You to great places and food I completely understand what do You mean and I kind of agree. The informations about the exact suspension work are very scarce, it probably involves custom valving and surely very high spring rates. Aragosta is a rebrand of Suspension-Technics from Netherlands sold in Japan, where it seem to be the stuff to have. However in the rest of the world it is barely known, altough every opinion I managed to find about it is rather positive - the only problem is the very high price range.
About Your rhetorical question - it really depands on how You define a great car builder. If it means to be able to build a car everybody could be fast in, then You are deffinitely right. If it means its just about building the fastest car, albeit it could be driven just by a selected few, then there is a room for debate. On a side note, I recall I once saw Rubens Barichello talking about driving Michael Schumacher´s car during practice - it was completely undriveable for him. However that do not diminish M.S. ability to set up the fastest car of the bunch, in my opinon.
About the Japan car culture I also have to partially agree - Rocket Bunny, Liberty Walk and alikes are build purely on bringing the racing look to the street. While I still like them for their "I do not care" mentality of cutting up an Aventador (I may grow out of it eventually
) I agree it has no functionality what so ever and it is purely for looks, stance and the wow factor. And the car scene in Japan is huge in this regard too.Why I refuse to look at RWB in this way is beacause from all the stuff I read and saw I firmly believe the whole idea started on track with a simple question "How do I make my 930 faster" .
Because if You boil down "improving lap times" really hard, what You get is "more power and more traction". So You need more rubber and more body to contain it. I know it is oversimplified, but it is also true. What is the GT2 EVO bodywork more than a manner of containing 700 hp engine and all the necessary bits to transfer the power to the tarmac. RWB is no different.
It is not the pieces of plastic that makes the car faster, they are merely a tools used in the proces of making a fast car.
The 58.8 car ran that time not because the RWB kit is the result of X years of development in a wind tunnel, resulting in unrivalled amount of downforce and drag reduction. Its simply because it sports 570 Hp and 325/345 slicks, somehow covered by bolt on pieces of plastic just to not look compeletely out of place. Completely unscientific yet somehow working.
Today´s cars are so riddled with electronics and failsafes that even a toddler can drive them fast. Thats why so many people love the aircooled Porsches I think - beacuse by today´s standarts they are a little rough themselves.
You were right - the RWB is a tribute, and perfect one in my eyes. It distills the best from the Porsche racing origins and turn it up a notch - plain, unrefined and rough. It is called "Rauh Welt" after all. However it would never work without the stauts and heritage of the original car - like a classic Porsche has. Because this is exactly what creates the strong emotions about those cars. Some are mesmerized by it, some scared.
I respect You love the cars the way they are, beacuse they certainly are awesome without anyone trying to improve them.
But when the dawn of driving comes and automated cars take over, I want to take my grandson to this dusty shed somewhere and say "This is what a proper car once looked like". And I feel that for me a stupidly wide and loud RWB fits that description better than a concourse condition Speedster. It is all matter of opinion after all...
Sorry for the brain fart...
08-26-2015, 07:12 PM
#42
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just to throw another opinion into the grinder here: why do we care so much about what other people do to their cars? sure, the debate makes for fun internet reading while on my lunch break, but isn't the fun of this hobby the ability and freedom to express ourselves through our cars? What's fuels my passion project after project the process of envisioning something, build it, and drive the hell out of it!
If a guy wants to cut up some fenders, bolt some other stuff on, and paint it neon pink, why not? Or if a guy just wants to keep their looking like the day it did when it rolled off the factory production line, why not? To each his own, and neither is more "stupid" than the other (at least in my eyes)
I'm a fan of Akira Nakai, and what he has accomplished. Here's my take, copied and pasted from something I wrote a while go concerning if things are "neat" under the screaming body modifications:
I'm in the process of cutting up a '90 964 myself...I've envisioned a duck tail wide body cab, 400+hp to the wheels, suspension + brakes to match, and a surfboard rack. I call her, 911 California Surf Special
If a guy wants to cut up some fenders, bolt some other stuff on, and paint it neon pink, why not? Or if a guy just wants to keep their looking like the day it did when it rolled off the factory production line, why not? To each his own, and neither is more "stupid" than the other (at least in my eyes)
I'm a fan of Akira Nakai, and what he has accomplished. Here's my take, copied and pasted from something I wrote a while go concerning if things are "neat" under the screaming body modifications:
Putting aside the subjectivity of the aesthetics on RWB cars, and also the reasoning behind cutting up perfectly fine cars, "neat" is probably a bare-bottom minimum for the level of work Nakai San expects of himself.
I've now watched him work on 3 cars in Los Angeles and each time I'm inspired by his attention to detail and strive for perfection. A downright humble and soft spoken soul when he is not working on cars, Nakai San's intensity level is turned up a gazillion times when he starts to work on a car, and you can just tell by the razor sharp focus his eyes and the heat that seems to radiate from his stare, that nothing else in the world matters at that moment, other than creating another perfect RWB (usually that focus breaks with him saying while grinning boyishly, "okay, let's eat"...lol...granted after going at it, without a mumble, for hours at a time)
To me what makes an RWB special is not how it looks or how it performs; opinions like these are subjective and to each his own. What makes the RWB unique to anything in the world is the experience of having someone who cares about nothing else other than giving you the best of everything he has got so you are genuinely proud to say you own a RWB.
It is a contagious sense of accomplishing something great in life not many people get to experience.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, "yes, it is all neat under there!"
I've now watched him work on 3 cars in Los Angeles and each time I'm inspired by his attention to detail and strive for perfection. A downright humble and soft spoken soul when he is not working on cars, Nakai San's intensity level is turned up a gazillion times when he starts to work on a car, and you can just tell by the razor sharp focus his eyes and the heat that seems to radiate from his stare, that nothing else in the world matters at that moment, other than creating another perfect RWB (usually that focus breaks with him saying while grinning boyishly, "okay, let's eat"...lol...granted after going at it, without a mumble, for hours at a time)
To me what makes an RWB special is not how it looks or how it performs; opinions like these are subjective and to each his own. What makes the RWB unique to anything in the world is the experience of having someone who cares about nothing else other than giving you the best of everything he has got so you are genuinely proud to say you own a RWB.
It is a contagious sense of accomplishing something great in life not many people get to experience.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, "yes, it is all neat under there!"
08-26-2015, 07:48 PM
#43
With regard to RWBs being raced in Japan...check out the following Speed Hunters mini-documentary on the Idlers 12-hour endurance race at Twin Ring Motegi with the RWB crew and clients. Say what you will about the look and I'm not sure the body kit makes them any "faster", but I think the majority of RWB owners in Japan drive and track their cars. Nakai San seems to be pretty passionate about these cars and his work...either way, pretty cool article and videos
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/08/...dlers-12-hour/
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/08/...dlers-12-hour/
08-26-2015, 09:07 PM
#44
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Michel, you've asked a key question, I think. "What's a good car builder". In my opinion, a good car builder is one who can do both of these: 1. Listen, understand and execute what the client wants" and 2. Have his own vision and understanding of how things could be and match it with client's vision.
From what I see, Nakai-san has his own vision and clients just follow. It seems that 99% just do it for looks and he's happy to oblige. Besides not liking the looks I, personally, dislike loss of function and loss of functional cars. Something tells me that RWB owners here or in Japan are mostly 'cars and coffee" types with incessant washing and waxing habits (which is funny as the car is made to look like a dirty smelly track beast).
Finally, I look at my 17 seasons of autocross addiction. I try to not be anywhere near leading edge, but even my lowly Miata today has cut-up body with 275/15 tires, homemade aero kit, 800 lb springs and other things that made it not street driveable. But this is purely form following function. My former student, current competitor and current National champion, has a Miata in the same class. It's about $100K of mods now, it breaks down 2-3 times in 6 miles of daily "racing" and it's... it's just right, it brings desired results.
Which brings us full circle back - what's a desired result for an RWB owner? Sy, above, describes a little bit of that, I think. It's owning something unique, maybe? Seeing the artist work first-hand? I can understand and appreciate that in the sense of art collecting. But here we run into the same problem - it's not quite unique any longer. It's now a conveyor of money making performance art that, again makes the car non-functional. This is extremely subjective and I can very well be wrong, or at least "don't understand", grated. I don't like Picasso for example, that doesn't make his work any less valuable or desirable, right? But... how many RWB owners "race" more than twice a year? Those "Idlers" on street car are just funny to me. And, somebody, please, please, explain the stickers.
PS. Prague. I was there in March again. Hope to be back next year.
From what I see, Nakai-san has his own vision and clients just follow. It seems that 99% just do it for looks and he's happy to oblige. Besides not liking the looks I, personally, dislike loss of function and loss of functional cars. Something tells me that RWB owners here or in Japan are mostly 'cars and coffee" types with incessant washing and waxing habits (which is funny as the car is made to look like a dirty smelly track beast).
Finally, I look at my 17 seasons of autocross addiction. I try to not be anywhere near leading edge, but even my lowly Miata today has cut-up body with 275/15 tires, homemade aero kit, 800 lb springs and other things that made it not street driveable. But this is purely form following function. My former student, current competitor and current National champion, has a Miata in the same class. It's about $100K of mods now, it breaks down 2-3 times in 6 miles of daily "racing" and it's... it's just right, it brings desired results.
Which brings us full circle back - what's a desired result for an RWB owner? Sy, above, describes a little bit of that, I think. It's owning something unique, maybe? Seeing the artist work first-hand? I can understand and appreciate that in the sense of art collecting. But here we run into the same problem - it's not quite unique any longer. It's now a conveyor of money making performance art that, again makes the car non-functional. This is extremely subjective and I can very well be wrong, or at least "don't understand", grated. I don't like Picasso for example, that doesn't make his work any less valuable or desirable, right? But... how many RWB owners "race" more than twice a year? Those "Idlers" on street car are just funny to me. And, somebody, please, please, explain the stickers.
PS. Prague. I was there in March again. Hope to be back next year.
Last edited by nile13; 08-26-2015 at 09:30 PM.
08-26-2015, 09:24 PM
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With regard to RWBs being raced in Japan...check out the following Speed Hunters mini-documentary on the Idlers 12-hour endurance race at Twin Ring Motegi with the RWB crew and clients. Say what you will about the look and I'm not sure the body kit makes them any "faster", but I think the majority of RWB owners in Japan drive and track their cars. Nakai San seems to be pretty passionate about these cars and his work...either way, pretty cool article and videos
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/08/...dlers-12-hour/
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/08/...dlers-12-hour/
One of my early track instructors once said: "Tomorrow you'll be the hero around the water cooler at the office, casually mentioning to people that you "raced" yesterday. You did not race. You participated in learning car control at a DE event. Just try to keep that in mind when all the accounting girls look at you with great admiration".
In short, this article accurately describes _everything_ that's wrong with RWB scene.
