Bill Verburg

it's cheaper, does that make it a better deal?
street 993 uses all soft rubber bushes, RS replaces 6 of them w/ stiffer rubber bushes and adds mono-ball shock tops, Cup replaces 2 more and replaces subframes w/ solid bushes and also mono-ball steering arms(more recent experience dictates mono-***** for rear toe arms too), RSR goes to all mono-ball on all the joints

Do you think that the factory engineers might know a thing or two?

My best advice for a street height occasional track car that has close to 100k mi. Use 4 sport rubber bushes in front and add RS or mono-ball or pinned tie rods, buy all new RS arms for the back( all the rear arms ive seen have worn leading mono-ball joint and very soft squishy trailing arm joints), the new RS arms are no more expensive and as Geo lab points out you get new ball joints too. I'd further use all new hardware. while in there rplace the non RS arms w/ new oe's

for your occasional track use forget the solid subs and mono-ball toe arms

the tie rod mods and 8.5" front wheel will wake up the lazy front end on the car and not detract from street enjoyment in any significant way.

Do work w/ a reputable shop that knows these cars on alignment and corner balance

IXLR8

Bill, no need to preach to me. You and a couple of other RLers (who track also) are who I trust when it comes to suspension advice. Mind you, you already know which direction I am going bushing-wise.

I got a ride in a Subaru from an acquaintance who is an active rally spectator and Auto Cross participant. The ride in his car was so effing uncomfortable (we were taking back roads to another friend), even he, the owner was complaining and said he went way overboard for street use. Yes, that kind of suspension wears thin in no time in the real world of daily use.

Same here, but if you think Porsche owners are cheap, BMW motorcycle owners are far worse. They say the cheapest thing on a BMW motorcycle is the rider (-1). They'll talk about oils ad nauseam and then buy the cheapest oil filter.

os993

Installed PSS10's and Elephant stock/sport (not the hardest version) and it's a nice combo. Not an immediate "wow I feel this difference" (regardign the bushings, not PSS10), but I'm glad I did it. Seeing how much play was there after almost 15yrs of operation, I'm glad I replaced them.

Ed Hughes

I felt new bushings tightened it up some, and I had just a ever-so-slight shimmy at about 55, that was corrected. Like you, I did new shocks and springs at the same time, with a great alignment. Definitely a much different car.

Tony_KB

Thanks Bill, what do you mean by 8.5" front wheel?

911SLOW

I've deleted a few posts from this thread.

Guys, please, try to keep it civil. Also, and this is very important, please note that threats of any kind will not be tolerated!

Thanks,

John

Cupcar

Wow, threats. This thread went pretty wild I guess.

This is probably because there is a lot of personal preference and differing goals that cannot be met with one solution. Race car? Street car? Noise Vibration and Harness concerns? Ride concerns? Money concerns?

It is cool though that the suspension has so many different areas and available hardware to play with that "spice" the car to owner preference.

The owner just needs to figure what they want and how the parts work together to make their own compromise - all are good if owner is happy.

Bonster

Hey guys ... real quick question as bushings have been on my mind since I track my cars ... will I be able to more perfectly align my car when I replace the bushings? That's what I was thinking ... the blue car goes out of alignment awful easy, it seems. I did go a little to far over.the berm in seven at Road Atlanta, but I didn't think I hit anything hard enough to knock the alignment out.

So if I street my cars as well, how noisy are the polys? Will they last longer? Okay ... I guess this isn't a "quick question" anymore. If the answers I seek are elsewhere in this thread, just tell me. I don't have time to read it all on a phone right now.

Ed Hughes

Bon, it could be, if they were worn that far/bad. The rears, maybe more susceptible than fronts in light of the relatively higher complexity back there? It may be hard to get a real precise alignment with poor bushings. But a creeping alignment may point to something else?

The PU bushings in front did not add any perceivable NVH to my car. But, they may be overshadowed by HD shocks on really bad roads. On good to moderate, none I can see/feel. YMMV, FWIW. ROFL. Too many acronyms!

My RS engine mounts added a bit of NVH when my A/C is on. I can hear a slight whir when the compressor cycles, so I believe I am sensitive to such feedbacks.

Bill Verburg

Things that wake up the front pf a 993
wheels:7<7.5<8<8.5, 16,17, 18 or ? makes less of a difference though the 18's have the best selection and lowest profile
tires:205/55<225/40<235/40<245/35, lower profile and wider is generally better for sporting use but they need to be matched to the wheel width. Ideally use the widest wheel for which a tire is spec'ed
bushes: stock rubber< sport rubber trailing< sport rubber leading+ trailing<mono-ball
alignment: more neg. is better to a point, matched to the tires/drivers needs, toe approaching zero is desirable, maybe even positive if you are fast
tie rods:stock<RS<mono-ball, matched to the ride height and wheel carriers
track: wider is better to a point, you don't want to deviate too much from stock scrub radius or steering goes out the window. the tires also need to fit in the fenders w/o interference

Bill Verburg

Yes, the most easily deflected are the front A arm and rear toe arm, for serious track use mono-***** are the only way to go for both

berni29

Hi

I am a bit late to this one, but I have the sport hardness Elephant bushes front and rear on my 993 and very much like them. The fronts are a must in my opinion, but there is not a big gain to be had for the rear. I think the Poly bushes are popular because they are so easy to fit. I have used them on many of my cars in the past but did not even consider them for the 993.

I only use my 993 on the road.

Berni

MarkD

Well... we install and sell both Walrod and Elephant bushings
The PU bushings are by far the most popular... And we've never had an issue or complaint.
Price and value are the primary driving factor.

I must add, comparing other makes/models with aftermarket PU bushings in various suspension components to a 993 with PU control arm bushings is a bit silly.
Apples and oranges.

Real life experience with numerous 993s and a wide variety of owners has made it clear that "harshness" is not an issue with the PU bushings.
Additionally, they have stood the test of time and miles.

That said, Elephant Racing makes an excellent, high quality product.
The fact that there are options when replacing the tired, factory rubber is a good thing!

nine9six

This suggention to the Walrod bushings was only mentioned as an alternative; not for the creation of any tension. Trying to find a balance of street-track; compliance-competence, in a car that is earmarked for double duty is very subjective, and depends mostly upon "seat time" and developed abilities.

Tony_KB

Where would you suggest buying the rear arms ?
Bill mentioned all new RS arms...

They don't make Walrod Poly Bushes for the rear so now I'm between getting Elephant for the front control arms and either elephant for the rear track arms which cost $400 for replacement bushings or, all new arms which I'm sure will be more , What is the advantage of rear RS arms vs just normal stock arms?

I am getting to the answer , thanks to all you guys support ...