Porsche 993: a 911 lost in translation
07-13-2013, 11:47 AM
#16
993s FOREVER
Yes. The real 911s ended with our 993s. The 964 and 996 series cars are the "ugly ducklings" 911s. The 997 series made things right, and were refined with the 2009-and-on direct-fuel-injected engines--culminating in the ultimate - 997 - the GT3 4.0. With the 991 Porsche has lost its way with their "911" model. The 997s were already way too cushy; the 991s are much too luxurious, and have lost the 911 translation from Butzi Porsche's original idea.
07-13-2013, 01:13 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Why all the discussion about "911s" after the 993? If the original vision is what you're trying to compare against, punch that into the early-'90s translator and see how other sports cars evolved. 993 stayed pretty true to form, good and bad.
07-13-2013, 05:39 PM
#22
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Recently read in Panamara that the 993 was supposed to be a liquid-cooled car but due to having to replace complex heating and cooling systems, engineers opted to continue the air-cooled engine. So the 993 should have been a 996 and was really just a bastardized 911 stuck in air-cooled purgatory at the time. It was not the evolutionary pinnacle of the 911 as some "experts" claim. That claim is probably more applicable to the 964, although I would never say that.
07-13-2013, 05:41 PM
#23
I know it's only your opinion, but I disagree with it about the 964. Yes, I agree the 996 was a visual trainwreck, but I think the 964 was a great looking 911. In fact, although I prefer the 993 from the rear, I think the 964 front end is better looking than the 993 with those great 964 pontoon torpedo upright headlights.
To each his own of course, but I love the 964 and the way it looks. From the responses to your comment, I see I'm far from alone
To each his own of course, but I love the 964 and the way it looks. From the responses to your comment, I see I'm far from alone
07-13-2013, 05:56 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Recently read in Panamara that the 993 was supposed to be a liquid-cooled car but due to having to replace complex heating and cooling systems, engineers opted to continue the air-cooled engine. So the 993 should have been a 996 and was really just a bastardized 911 stuck in air-cooled purgatory at the time. It was not the evolutionary pinnacle of the 911 as some "experts" claim. That claim is probably more applicable to the 964, although I would never say that.
Man, I love threads like this.
07-13-2013, 06:21 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
07-13-2013, 06:22 PM
#26
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So you're saying that the 993 is a bastardized 911 stuck in air cooled purgatory due to lazy engineers. And that it is not the evolutionary pinnacle as some experts claim, as opposed the the 964, which is, even though you wouldn't say that (even though you did).
Man, I love threads like this.
Man, I love threads like this.
07-13-2013, 06:40 PM
#27
tcabler, you back from a timeout or something?
Previous trainwreck thread...
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...93-bubble.html
Previous trainwreck thread...
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...93-bubble.html
07-13-2013, 06:44 PM
#28
Yeah, I've been on rennlist for 8 years and I have never seen a 964 Turbo, aka 965.
Last edited by RocketJohn; 07-13-2013 at 07:08 PM.
07-13-2013, 06:57 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't say it's "lost in translation," maybe "lost in transition," as in the transition between air and water cooling. But then I wouldn't even say "lost" because that makes me think that it is an under appreciated, undervalued, forgotten car, which it obviously isn't.
If anything I would say that Porsche never thought of it as a car that was going to be successful or groundbreaking (not that it was). The way I understand it, they had higher aspirations for it, but once the accountants got involved and put the choke on a few things (interior, for example), they kind of cut and ran towards the development of the 996.
The fact that now 18 years later, the nice 993s are commanding almost double what some 996s are in the marketplace is a testament to the fact that they "got some things right" with the "last of the air cooled." It's not necessarily a knock against the merits of the 996, rather the 993 is indeed the last car to retain elements from the classic 911 (air cooling, original 65 style dash, roof was the same since 74). So maybe it just captures the interests of nostalgic porsche guys as opposed to the 996, 997, 991, etc.
Arguing which gen of 911 is the best is like arguing over what color is the best. Everyone's got different tastes and takes on it. I'd guess though, that as far as the 993 forum is concerned, most people here find that the one that was "lost in transition" speaks to them.
07-13-2013, 07:08 PM
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Ahhhh. Gotcha.
I wouldn't say it's "lost in translation," maybe "lost in transition," as in the transition between air and water cooling. But then I wouldn't even say "lost" because that makes me think that it is an under appreciated, undervalued, forgotten car, which it obviously isn't.
If anything I would say that Porsche never thought of it as a car that was going to be successful or groundbreaking (not that it was). The way I understand it, they had higher aspirations for it, but once the accountants got involved and put the choke on a few things (interior, for example), they kind of cut and ran towards the development of the 996.
The fact that now 18 years later, the nice 993s are commanding almost double what some 996s are in the marketplace is a testament to the fact that they "got some things right" with the "last of the air cooled." It's not necessarily a knock against the merits of the 996, rather the 993 is indeed the last car to retain elements from the classic 911 (air cooling, original 65 style dash, roof was the same since 74). So maybe it just captures the interests of nostalgic porsche guys as opposed to the 996, 997, 991, etc.
Arguing which gen of 911 is the best is like arguing over what color is the best. Everyone's got different tastes and takes on it. I'd guess though, that as far as the 993 forum is concerned, most people here find that the one that was "lost in transition" speaks to them.
I wouldn't say it's "lost in translation," maybe "lost in transition," as in the transition between air and water cooling. But then I wouldn't even say "lost" because that makes me think that it is an under appreciated, undervalued, forgotten car, which it obviously isn't.
If anything I would say that Porsche never thought of it as a car that was going to be successful or groundbreaking (not that it was). The way I understand it, they had higher aspirations for it, but once the accountants got involved and put the choke on a few things (interior, for example), they kind of cut and ran towards the development of the 996.
The fact that now 18 years later, the nice 993s are commanding almost double what some 996s are in the marketplace is a testament to the fact that they "got some things right" with the "last of the air cooled." It's not necessarily a knock against the merits of the 996, rather the 993 is indeed the last car to retain elements from the classic 911 (air cooling, original 65 style dash, roof was the same since 74). So maybe it just captures the interests of nostalgic porsche guys as opposed to the 996, 997, 991, etc.
Arguing which gen of 911 is the best is like arguing over what color is the best. Everyone's got different tastes and takes on it. I'd guess though, that as far as the 993 forum is concerned, most people here find that the one that was "lost in transition" speaks to them.