Strange sound from rebuilt engine...
02-09-2013, 04:46 PM
#106
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Not yet. Today I am inspecting the lifters/rockers in exhaust 4-5-6. Then re-sealing the cover. Then compression test. Then sound test.
02-09-2013, 04:55 PM
#107
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I followed this thread sporadically mostly on my phone, did this get addressed?
I just drove my car. As a datapoint:
Up until minute three the pressure gauged was pegged at 5. After that it started to drop a bit and until minute seven was at ~3.5. First time it dropped below 3 was at the ten minute mark.
All observations were at idle (of course), though I drove the car right after starting it. OAT was ~40F. 15W-50 oil.
Hope you get it resolved soon, good luck.
I just drove my car. As a datapoint:
Up until minute three the pressure gauged was pegged at 5. After that it started to drop a bit and until minute seven was at ~3.5. First time it dropped below 3 was at the ten minute mark.
All observations were at idle (of course), though I drove the car right after starting it. OAT was ~40F. 15W-50 oil.
Hope you get it resolved soon, good luck.
One thing I have learned from the shop manual is that on a warmed up car pressure at idle should be between 2 and 2.5 bar. AT 2500 RPM oil pressure should be over 5 bar. I will need to test this with an external gauge.
02-09-2013, 05:31 PM
#108
Race Director
That part is not solved yet. I am concentrating on zeroing in on the sound source. Will move on to pressure later.
One thing I have learned from the shop manual is that on a warmed up car pressure at idle should be between 2 and 2.5 bar. AT 2500 RPM oil pressure should be over 5 bar. I will need to test this with an external gauge.
One thing I have learned from the shop manual is that on a warmed up car pressure at idle should be between 2 and 2.5 bar. AT 2500 RPM oil pressure should be over 5 bar. I will need to test this with an external gauge.
02-09-2013, 06:36 PM
#109
Rennlist Member
02-10-2013, 05:18 PM
#110
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Here's a quick update. Not much to report.
Waiting for a friend to bring over a compression tester tomorrow. A couple things I have done:
I had someone else turn the car over with the DME relay out to check again if any strange sound is present. Nothing heard without stethoscope. I put the stethoscope on the cylinder fins and heard a clicking. It just sounded like the piston moving back and forth. If the valves were hitting the piston wouldn't I be able to hear it?
Put the DME back in and started it. With stethoscope I checked the rocker panel. Loud tapping like a very fast buzz, buzz, buzz. Then I tried under the car at the head cylinder junction. I heard the same sound at a higher frequency. It seemed to be the same sound at about the same volume reverberating over to this spot. This is very hard to do without experience. I then checked the head on the combustion side and then the cam side. Basically, the same sound at the same volume. The same thing on 1-2-3 as 4-5-6.
Bottom end has similar sound but at much lower volume so its coming from between the pistons and the lifters. The chain housing seems much quieter. The tap-tap-tap is not coming from there.
The pressure light did not come on but I only had it running one or two minutes. I know some have said the low pressure could be causing the sound. I'm just trying to do one thing at a time.
Waiting for a friend to bring over a compression tester tomorrow. A couple things I have done:
I had someone else turn the car over with the DME relay out to check again if any strange sound is present. Nothing heard without stethoscope. I put the stethoscope on the cylinder fins and heard a clicking. It just sounded like the piston moving back and forth. If the valves were hitting the piston wouldn't I be able to hear it?
Put the DME back in and started it. With stethoscope I checked the rocker panel. Loud tapping like a very fast buzz, buzz, buzz. Then I tried under the car at the head cylinder junction. I heard the same sound at a higher frequency. It seemed to be the same sound at about the same volume reverberating over to this spot. This is very hard to do without experience. I then checked the head on the combustion side and then the cam side. Basically, the same sound at the same volume. The same thing on 1-2-3 as 4-5-6.
Bottom end has similar sound but at much lower volume so its coming from between the pistons and the lifters. The chain housing seems much quieter. The tap-tap-tap is not coming from there.
The pressure light did not come on but I only had it running one or two minutes. I know some have said the low pressure could be causing the sound. I'm just trying to do one thing at a time.
02-11-2013, 05:55 AM
#111
Rennlist Member
Watched the video several times, and I do not feel it is timing related, I like the smoothness of the engine
Have you had any issues removing installing the heat exchangers ?
could you please just recheck the bolts ?
Did you put the seals between head and exchangers ? straight side to head - convex to exchanger
Have you had any issues removing installing the heat exchangers ?
could you please just recheck the bolts ?
Did you put the seals between head and exchangers ? straight side to head - convex to exchanger
02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
#112
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Watched the video several times, and I do not feel it is timing related, I like the smoothness of the engine
Have you had any issues removing installing the heat exchangers ?
could you please just recheck the bolts ?
Did you put the seals between head and exchangers ? straight side to head - convex to exchanger
Have you had any issues removing installing the heat exchangers ?
could you please just recheck the bolts ?
Did you put the seals between head and exchangers ? straight side to head - convex to exchanger
02-11-2013, 01:13 PM
#113
Rennlist Member
Did you tighten the exchangers, then you tightened the cat ? If so...I once broke a manifold stud like this.
Try to check all exhaust man. bolts, to be on the safe side.
I wish if you could double check the head bolts as well, not the torque, just if they are ok (no loose ones)
regards
02-11-2013, 01:28 PM
#114
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
No , if the seal is reversed, it does not cause rattling.
Did you tighten the exchangers, then you tightened the cat ? If so...I once broke a manifold stud like this.
Try to check all exhaust man. bolts, to be on the safe side.
I wish if you could double check the head bolts as well, not the torque, just if they are ok (no loose ones)
regards
Did you tighten the exchangers, then you tightened the cat ? If so...I once broke a manifold stud like this.
Try to check all exhaust man. bolts, to be on the safe side.
I wish if you could double check the head bolts as well, not the torque, just if they are ok (no loose ones)
regards
Regarding the head bolts I went thru the torque down procedure in Wayne's book: Torque, then 90 degree turn. I will check the ones I can get at just to be sure.
02-11-2013, 01:35 PM
#115
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
What is the oil level in the engine when cold. Not the dip stick level. Where in the engine, above oil return tubes, bottom of the chain housing? etc.. Thanks.
02-11-2013, 03:24 PM
#116
Race Director
when its running?
Cold or hot, when the car is running, there should be almost no oil in the case itself as the suction side of the pump is sending the oil back to the reservoir.
After you shut it off, maybe 1.5 quarts or so drains back to the case, but it shouldn't be ridiculous. Where that gets you in terms of level vis a vis components, I'm not sure.
Cold or hot, when the car is running, there should be almost no oil in the case itself as the suction side of the pump is sending the oil back to the reservoir.
After you shut it off, maybe 1.5 quarts or so drains back to the case, but it shouldn't be ridiculous. Where that gets you in terms of level vis a vis components, I'm not sure.
02-11-2013, 03:32 PM
#117
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
when its running?
Cold or hot, when the car is running, there should be almost no oil in the case itself as the suction side of the pump is sending the oil back to the reservoir.
After you shut it off, maybe 1.5 quarts or so drains back to the case, but it shouldn't be ridiculous. Where that gets you in terms of level vis a vis components, I'm not sure.
Cold or hot, when the car is running, there should be almost no oil in the case itself as the suction side of the pump is sending the oil back to the reservoir.
After you shut it off, maybe 1.5 quarts or so drains back to the case, but it shouldn't be ridiculous. Where that gets you in terms of level vis a vis components, I'm not sure.
02-11-2013, 03:39 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
This is helping explain the low pressure. Make sure you do not have the breather hoses mixed up on the oil tank side. This can also cause a big imbalance of oil dropped in/out of the tank system.
02-11-2013, 04:40 PM
#119
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Another thought - could there be an oil blockage (I'm thinking at the bridge into the Cam tower or at the small hole in the large gasket chain housing- I used 3bond on that gasket and it could have oozed into that hole). Would a blockage in either of these two spots cause the chain housing to fill with oil as per photo?
Last edited by Vorsicht; 02-11-2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: spelling
02-11-2013, 05:33 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
Definitely check bridge tubes. If you added sealant it very well is clogging the passage and that is an oil path with no where else to go. That oil path feeds the cam towers, cam shafts, and into the lifters.