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Strange sound from rebuilt engine...

 
Old 03-04-2013, 10:45 PM
  #316  
Vorsicht
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Originally Posted by killsbugsfast View Post
Are the rod bolts directional?

I see some references with them threaded in from the crank side and other references showing them threaded in from the piston side.

"After removing the pistons I found the I could move the rods in and out about 1/16 to 1/8 inch."
"In and out" perpendicular to the rotation of the crankshaft?
See Video prior post.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:54 PM
  #317  
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Peter,

I'm really sorry you have all these issues. That slop on the rod big end is just crazy. Is the rod cap tight up against the top section of the rod when you move it like this?
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:58 PM
  #318  
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Are you sure there are rod bearings installed????

The rod parts do not appear to be moving in the video which leads me to believe there are no rod bearings.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:59 PM
  #319  
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Wow. With that amount of play, I guess you can be lucky that the entire thing didn't simply grenade.


Andreas
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:00 PM
  #320  
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See item 1: Rod bearings
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:01 PM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by AOW162435 View Post
Wow. With that amount of play, I guess you can be lucky that the entire thing didn't simply grenade.


Andreas
x2!!!!

You probably have some serious crank damage now as well.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:01 PM
  #322  
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Hey Peter,

Really sorry to hear this, but at least you found it.

I doubt if its the torque setting, as was said before, even hand tight would be tight enough not to get that kind of play. Perhaps the nuts undid themselves? Are there any gaps between the end cap and the rod itself (they should be tight up even if the nut is hand tight).

Anyways, the feel of the rods on the crank should be like oiled-silk - very smooth and no up/down play, and perhaps a touch of side play.

have you removed the rods yet? Were the rods machined for oversized bearings and that was missed? (even then, that is a LOT of play you are showing). Where were the rod bearings sourced? (or what has been asked - are their rod bearings at all?). Not sure what was machined with the rods and end-caps, but often they will be re-bored with the ARP bolts to make sure they are perfectly round.

Ok, if you pull the rods, and you have not beaten up the crank, that still leaves the issue if you need a complete teardown to get all the metal out of the engine, and to check the crank for roundness. That is hard to check when the crank is still in the block. The crank is likely to be damaged, but its pretty tough too. The pistons also go very deep into the barrels but I think you have enough clearances there, but you need to double check.

All in all, take heart, you found the issue, now you need to figure out what's next, be methodical and go forward. Please lean on all of use, we have literally several lifetimes of engine experience on the forum, and we would help you on each step...


Best of luck!

Cheers,

Mike
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #323  
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It's interesting that this occurred almost identically on all six cylinders. If this was Peter's error, he was amazingly consistent in making it. Not joking or making fun here. Just seems amazingly consistent for "human error."

Sorry to see this....

Terry
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:09 PM
  #324  
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Looking back at the original posts you said this sound was there from the very beginning leading me to believe the nuts did not come loose.

Another take-away from this is during and after assembly, BEFORE trying to start the motor, and with the plugs out, turn the engine over several times by hand. As Mike J said, everything should turn freely and feel very smooth - that technique would have caught this interference.

Sorry to see you having to go through this - hang in there, you will get it fixed and learn a lot at the same time.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:10 PM
  #325  
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Well, a fundamental mistake like using the wrong bearings, or missing bearings would be repeated on each one, right?

I think the fundamental mistake is not checking the play with Plastigauge, but realistically that kind of slop should have been noticed on the spot. That is just experience, i am sure Peter feels really bad right now, and its best just to caulk it up to experience.

Cheers,

Mike
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:27 PM
  #326  
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as has been said, its just a big chunk of metal. nothing that can't be fixed.

I'm really confused about this rod situation. You don't seem like the type to forget bearings, so I'm wondering what in the blue hell causes that much play. As has been noted, even finger tight wouldn't give that much play.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:31 PM
  #327  
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^^^^^^ That's exactly what I'm wondering as well... Especially if the rod bearings were professionally mounted by Steve, that is so much play, I'm just at a loss.

I'm not sure anything could be said here that you aren't already thinking, hindsight truly is 20/20. Just know that I'm sure everyone here is still pulling for you, just be glad you finally found it!!!! (How disappointing would it have been to do a full break down, and not notice a thing?)

Keep at it Peter!
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:36 PM
  #328  
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Back in the '80's, rebuilt the engine in my first car, a 1973 cutlass supreme. When the crank came back, my uncle and I did not notice the machine shop had turned the rod and crank journals down differently. I believe the crank was 10 thou, and the rods were 30 thou. We bought 10 thou over for everything. Going from the memory of a 17 year old) Assembled the motor, and when turning it over by hand, we could hear the clunk at the top and bottom of travel. He quickly figured what was up. Upon breakdown, we could see the shop had plainly stamped the journals correctly, we just overlooked them.

In this case would a large bearing gap keep the oil pressure low?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:46 PM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by techman1 View Post
Back in the '80's, rebuilt the engine in my first car, a 1973 cutlass supreme. When the crank came back, my uncle and I did not notice the machine shop had turned the rod and crank journals down differently. I believe the crank was 10 thou, and the rods were 30 thou. We bought 10 thou over for everything. Going from the memory of a 17 year old) Assembled the motor, and when turning it over by hand, we could hear the clunk at the top and bottom of travel. He quickly figured what was up. Upon breakdown, we could see the shop had plainly stamped the journals correctly, we just overlooked them.

In this case would a large bearing gap keep the oil pressure low?
cept in this case we'd be dealing with clearance of 60 to 125 thousandths (1/16 to 1/8")

That much clearance would have a devastating effect on oil pressure.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:09 AM
  #330  
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Without rod bearings there would be approximately 3mm of play or just around 1/16th, which is just about the amount of play I can see in the Video.

Now as Mike has said, tear her down, and start cleaning. Everything is repairable, I can understand how you are feeling, you have had a great outlook throughout this whole process, keep it up and she will be back before you know it.

Was there any signs of contact between the piston and valves?, with this much play there could be potential of contact.
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