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3.8 Upgrade?

 
Old 01-31-2013, 10:50 PM
  #16  
bobt993
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Thanks Steve. The oil pump is a modified GT3 and has good clearance. The motor made 350whp, but we did not like the imbalance of heat on the header and cyl temps. A buddy of mine completed a similar project with the Mahles and his makes almost 370whp and better torque. Heights work out, but we have to rebush the rods. The heads are CMW and we inserted everything after looking at bad torque applications by the original assembly.(some damaged threads)

Mike, I can assure as Steve will that the numbers to build a solid 3.8 that can withstand race conditions is the price of buying a nice 993. (and that's the starting level). You just cannot go short on any one thing. eg. cams, valves, windage, balancing. Seems like all the good stuff you need 6 of each of 12 of each.........

The best option is what Steve and Gamroth are doing by building a tricked out 3.6 with a modern intake plenum. You can do the same with the 3.8, but it gets even more expensive . A stock engine can produce a lot more hp with some headwork/perf springs, mild cams, windage, and new engine management. Ben, I am telling you this not to be a downer, but rather to help you avoid the Porsche "fiscal cliff" that a bunch of us have jumped off of.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:54 PM
  #17  
Mike J
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Originally Posted by bobt993 View Post
Mike, I can assure as Steve will that the numbers to build a solid 3.8 that can withstand race conditions is the price of buying a nice 993. (and that's the starting level). You just cannot go short on any one thing. eg. cams, valves, windage, balancing. Seems like all the good stuff you need 6 of each of 12 of each.........
Yup, knew that, was just making sure the OP knew this, that the eBay buy was just the starting of a long fall... thanks!

Cheers

Mike
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:13 AM
  #18  
race911
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Originally Posted by bobt993 View Post
I can assure as Steve will that the numbers to build a solid 3.8 that can withstand race conditions is the price of buying a nice 993.
Yeah, and I've got one of his sitting behind me, and that was built nearly 10 years ago!

Other data point was Larry's old car that Thomas just sold--remember the photo challenged, not-so-great English ad for the silver 2S? That engine project started out as a "hey, I'll buy this kit" circa 2000 for ~$10K, and ended up well over double that after it emerged from S-Car-Go. It had near-zero reliability upgrades on a sub-20K engine. And hardly any of the cost was attributable to the purple powder coating on the sheetmetal, etc.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:40 AM
  #19  
Bill Verburg
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The 3.8RS kit, was ~$14000 last I saw one for sale(circa 2004) included slip fit 102mm P/C's, complete new big-valve/port RS heads, cams, mg lower intake manifolds, mufflers, single belt pulley, fan hub, and I believe a new DME(I'm unsure of the DME)
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:54 AM
  #20  
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you can see the 3.8 kit @ carnewal.com
Ciao
Paolo
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:15 PM
  #21  
Bill Verburg
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Originally Posted by PAOLOP View Post
you can see the 3.8 kit @ carnewal.com
Ciao
Paolo
Yep, that's it, ~16.5k as of today

apparently the DME is not included so factor in a new chip at a minimum

I also forgot about the injector blocks
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #22  
Mike J
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and labor ... another 40 - 60 hrs?
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:08 PM
  #23  
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Wow, prices are going up. I'm glad I did my 3.8 conversion back in 2006.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
?.. While it does not really add power, a re-gear or switch of transmissions can give you a more fun ride, although these days doing that is getting very expensive as well.
...

Cheers,

Mike
my ultimate desire
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:07 PM
  #25  
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Do these kits from FVD in Germany do half the job effectively.

http://www.fvd.us/us/en/Porsche-0/99..._Cylinder.html
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:28 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by bobt993 View Post
The best option is what Steve and Gamroth are doing by building a tricked out 3.6 with a modern intake plenum. You can do the same with the 3.8, but it gets even more expensive . A stock engine can produce a lot more hp with some headwork/perf springs, mild cams, windage, and new engine management. Ben, I am telling you this not to be a downer, but rather to help you avoid the Porsche "fiscal cliff" that a bunch of us have jumped off of.
I can assure you that this is a fact. My engine is stock, less the above exactly, and pulls like a freight train. It was not, however inexpensive to do; the good thing with this stage is the fact that most of the external stuff will be used in the next.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:50 PM
  #27  
Bill Verburg
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Originally Posted by pipingken1 View Post
Do these kits from FVD in Germany do half the job effectively.

http://www.fvd.us/us/en/Porsche-0/99..._Cylinder.html
If you get the 109mm base x102mm bore RSR versions yes, they are a good start but there is a lot more that needs to go along w/ them.
here are a couple of gratuitous shots of mine showing the Graphel skirrt coating and tapered wrist pins



If I were building a big bore motor today I'd want some thing lighter and built around a GT3 bottom end w/ Ti rods, but the price of these types of motors is easily $50k
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:15 PM
  #28  
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The last time I saw a 3.8 kit in the US was around 20k (including the ECU as per Bill) Add to this machining, cleaning etc and labor another easy 10 to 12k.

Not for the faint of heart or wallet.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:20 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
and labor ... another 40 - 60 hrs?
For a stock build 40 to 60 would be fair, if you are going the extra mile and bluepringing etc the additional hours could push the build time to 80 hours easily.

I have been measuring bearings and logging, then matching them to rod sizes etc, it takes a long time to do it right. Every bearing shell I measure at least 3 times to ensure accuracy and consistency, same with the journals on the crank and the big end bores in the rods. very time consuming.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:34 PM
  #30  
Mike J
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Yeah, I spend 150 hours at least on my first build (lost track after 100) due to 1)its all new to be 2)excessive detailing 3)obsession with accuracy

I get it! Also, measuring is an art form when you are getting down to measuring sub thousands, with temperature , conditions and technique all comes into play - and going it right takes time!

Cheers,

Mike
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