ABCar

He is certainly the "master of his own domain"!

Stealth 993

I'm going to defend him a little. It's getting summer time, so the super busy season is starting. You took his time to explain what he would do, then what he would charge. You asked for the "works" then decided it was a bit to much, & wanted a lower service.

I agree, he should have been able to do a breakdown, or explain what service fits into what price range. But I bet form his perspective, you took his time, thought it was a done deal, now you want to get less then what he thought. So he now thinks you are a waste of time, & am going to complain about the cost of everything, and/or never be happy.

Now, I bet if you went back to him in November, he would have way more time, & broken things down for you. This sounds like you should go elsewhere.

600RR

Your emails were very respectful and courteous. I am taking my new (to me) car to Robert for a paint restore. He'll quote a price and I'll pay it. However, I know beforehand that all I want is a paint restore. I suspect that Robert is accustomed to being asked for a price and either getting a go or no go based on that price. I also suspect that he has done it enough to simply have a feel for what seems to be a price consistent with his expected efforts, rather than a detailed time and materials sorta quote. Just shows what we learned in our youth - sometimes the hook-up just doesn't happen.

Stealth 993

You saw he was quoted for 25 hours of labor. That adds up quick. It's hard to compare details form 2 separate cars. One may be in better shape, & require far less work. My guess is the quote for a multi stage polish, maybe wet sanding, etc... The sub $500 detail was mostly likely a simple stage polish, or a polish/wax application.

It's a lot of skilled labor, & time.

Around here it's not hard at all to get a $1500 detail done. It's fairly common on high end cars. When I do a car, it takes me all day, sometimes 2. Once I did a 69 Caddy convertible , that took all week, that was over $3500. One whole day was spent just polishing chrome. My point is, you get what you a pay for.

Mother

I agree that it depends on the shape of the car in need of detail before entering the shop. I worry about shops that automatically charge high prices for a car that needs little .. sort of like dealers working on my car at hourly book prices.

Auto Concierge

As Adam has chosen to tell only his side of the story............I will now add mine for proper context.

What he fails to mention is I spent over a hour at my shop going over everything pertaining to making his car look beautiful again, as his car is dark colored (Midnight Blue) and being 16 years old it had more than a little "Patina" the car has severe marring and deep scratches, in addition the trim is dry, the rear OE badge needed to be replaced after it was removed then a new one affixed(Which is time consuming to do properly even with a template as I have done this many times).

I repeated answers to his questions three times while he was there in person, and I understand a certain level of education is needed to explain what a major paint correction detail will entail and I am happy to do this and do this often, but as I am experienced not only in my particular craft of the work I am also exprienced when someone is doing all they can to get a cheaper price.... in fact after the third time I went back over what, and why Adam said "I am not trying to be cheap, but I just need to understand exactly what you are doing as I may do some stuff now and other things later"

I went on to explain patiently again(As honestly I was slightly annoyed as we were going "Round and round") and I explained the price is based upon a hourly rate of $65.00 per hour and this many hours to do the job. I would say as I am extremely prideful of what leaves my shop, almost EVERY job I do goes over the time I quote as hidden things pop up and I do not charge more as I believe in sticking with a quote even sometimes when I am not profitable(Check my yelp reviews and a client chronicles this very thing).

This situation has everything to do with someone wanting everything for a cheaper price than quoted, and Adam was going to waste more time and I made a choice to not allow that to continue and he is now the "Scorned Women" and wants to hurt my reputation. If people want to take the word of someone who never even used my service......then so be it, my body of work speaks for itself.

Stealth 993 was the only guy in here who saw things even partly in a objective way, as he realizes what high end correction is all about.....high risk, and labor entensive. As for me being "Booked up" and not needing the job, I do not have that mindset ever as I am full of integrity and enjoy working on vehicles for over twenty years at a high level, I just saw and made the right choice obviously that Adam would be more trouble than it's worth and this is not in dispute.

mooty

no, any business should provide line item quotes. i ask that from all my vendors, and i will call them to explain few dollars of difference on million dollar contracts. if it's not adding up right, it's wrong. and i like things right, not just ok.

that's my general comment. however, i have spoken with robert several times. he has always been courteous and willing to work with me. i dont know what transpired in this specific situation.

FlatSix911

Well Robert, based on your reply you have now shut the door on a significant amount of future Rennlist business. Good luck ... you will need it

asofine

Robert, I actually appreciate your reply which was - for the most part - respectful. Of course, I disagree that I am playing the "scorned woman" card. Moreover, I strongly disagree that I failed to provide "proper context" in explaining the situation. I quoted our exchange verbatim. The only "discrepancy" (if there is any) between our two accounts is that - in your opinion - I failed to point out that you explained your process to me several times during our in-person consultation (by the way, you were correct in assuming that I simply needed to be educated on the process). If you feel that I have harmed your reputation, you have nobody to blame but yourself, as I have done nothing more than quote our exchange verbatim.

With regards to my reputation as a customer, there are dozens of members of this community (including several who have posted in this thread!) who can attest to the fact that I am no "haggler" and that I conduct business fairly. I've bought and sold parts through RL with absolutely no issues. I have been referred to indy shops like RMG & FD Motorsports through this community, and the fine folks at those shops (Darin and Bob) will surely confirm that I am a loyal and honest customer.

This tiff between us boils down to something very simple - I asked you to provide line item pricing for $1,500 worth of work and you could not provide it. I asked for nothing more than an estimate of the price associated with each job. Had you told me, for example, that you planned on spending 10 hours on the car's interior, I likely would have told you to hold off, as I don't want to prioritize several hundred dollars or more on my car's interior at this time. Like I said, what I was most interested in was the paint correction. Had you simply provided me with an estimate of the pricing for this job (and the others), I would have been happy to move forward. Instead, you chose to interpret my request for line item pricing as "haggling."

Put yourself in my position. I am as ignorant to your craft as most people are when making a purchase decision on a product like a computer. If you were looking at a computer priced at $2,500 that was equipped with X amount of RAM, X amount of memory, X kind of graphics card, X size hard drive, etc., you would almost certainly request line item pricing in order to determine what to prioritize and what not to. Imagine the computer shop telling you, "you have the total quote, either buy the computer or **** off." That was your approach. With both of our accounts now out in the open, it seems as though most people in this thread have come to the conclusion that my request was reasonable and your response was not.

Cheesewiz

Business owners just like consumers have to decide if the job will be a good for both parties. The op is a problem customer and the risk was not worth the reward. He proved this on this forum. No work was done on your car, and your still trying to damage his reputation. Punk comes to mind.

goofballdeluxe

I can tell you I spent 4 years of my life acting on a soap opera in the 1980s, and I seldom saw this much drama

asofine

If this wasn't clear from my OP, I will mention that - from the get go - I told Robert that I did not intend to do the "whole 9 yards," but rather that I was most interested in a certain body of work. I told him onsite, for example, that I would likely not want my engine cleaned, but that he could feel free to include pricing for this on the quote.

asofine

If a request for line item pricing is an act of a "punk," then so be it. Like I mentioned, there are dozens of members of this forum who will stand behind me as an honest customer (offhand, I can tell you that I've bought/sold items with MarinS4, Resident Sicko, Falcondrivr, AOW162435, PCarRacr, Sdcabrio, and Shadow993, among many others...not to mention my referrals to Bay Area indy shops through this forum to great guys at Flintworks, RMG, and FD Motorsports, ALL of whom I'm sure would call me a pleasant and honest person to do business with...if maybe a verbose one!). There is a difference between "haggling" and understanding what you are paying for when you are quoted for a $1,500 detail.

In terms of trying to damage Robert's reputation, I do intend to share this account with fellow RLers, as I believe that this community does an excellent job of sharing information so that we know who to do business with and who to steer clear of. Nothing that I have shared about my interaction with Robert has been untruthful. Robert himself does not have any substantial bone to pick with my account of the story. With regards to our emails, Robert chose to put them on paper, he should be prepared to live with the consequences of those emails being shared. Like I said, if Robert believes that this has damaged his reputation, he has nobody to blame but himself, as I have done nothing more than honestly recall the details of our transaction.

Auto Concierge

Adam truth is also defined by omission................. you and I both know your intent, cheapness is uncurable. You were told of my service because I do the right thing job after job, also you were made well aware of exactly what I was going to do step by step and the cost of those specific tasks..............you are giving the members here a skewed version of what is the reality of what happened and what you say happened, thus my reply's in e-mail as I knew you would be a problem and this thread is proof of that.

As for why I was curt in the e-mail concerning the job performed on Mark's Carrera, it was apples and oranges........two different vehicles(Although both 993 Porsches in the same color) but a world of difference in the condition and thus the price reflected this.

Some feel I am arrogant, not true as many return to me over a long period of time not only for the quality of work but my service level. I am sure some of my clients that know me well will comment accordingly.

goofballdeluxe

You two should get a room