jimbo3

For model years 1995 and 1996, the last five of your VIN falls squarely in the standard 2 or 4 configuration. It is not an "S".

Neil Perry

Hi,
You have your answer on that document, it is a "Carrera Coupe 4 wheel drive" the model type is 993 130

So it is not an original widebody car, it is a Narrow body 4 wheel drive.

Unless you want a hotrod, keep away from that car, what else is modified on it.

Good Luck

ilko

Based on the PDF doc the car is a 1995 Carrera 4.

It says it right in the "Vehicle Description" on p. 1: "993130 Carrera 4 Coupe, 1995 - S (S refers to the 10th digit of the VIN, which is an S for a 1995)

The internal designation of 993130 is a C4. The C4S has an internal designation of 993140.

So it looks like somebody added the WB panels at a later point...

1985mb

That's what I was confused about. The "S" in the vehicle description. That "S" just means 1995 and nothing else?

ilko

That's correct. It's the 10th digit of the VIN. For instance, mine's a T = 1996.

For further reading: http://books.google.com/books?id=edh...page&q&f=false

1985mb

You have a good eye. Now that you mention it, the indy said the bumper cover (I think he was talking about the rear) was fibreglass instead of plastic.

1985mb

So here's the thing: I am not paying top dollar for it. I thought I was getting a great deal on a C4S; in reality, if I go through with it, it will be fair market value for a C4 with some additions:

+ H&R suspension
+ GT wing (not my thing personally, but will sell and get a Carrera or Turbo spoiler)
+ BBS wheels, possibly HREs according to indy (ditto, will sell and get either twists or lightweights)

+/- the WB conversion: no one likes stories about the provenance of a car they are going to buy, but the WB look usually sells itself. If I buy the car but ultimately don't end up falling in love with it, I could probably get out without losing much money on it, if any.

Neil Perry

Hi,
I went through the same issues as you, looking at a couple of cars like the one you are looking at.
My suggestion, as I ended up doing, buy a good honest car, with no issues.
Some new wheels, suspension, PSS10's and spoiler will not cost as much as trying to make a suspect car good.
Pending if you keep the car for long, when or if you need to sell it, the new purchaser will be very suspect of the car and it will become hard to sell, many questions like we are asking.

Plus from my experience it cost more to fix up a car than just buy a good car.
It is amazing the number of rubbers, screws, bits and pieces, front and rear bumbers that on a car like you are looking at, will be missing or, wrong and if you are the type to want it right, it will cost a fortune and a lot of time to fix.
It would be easy to put $10,000.00 into a 993 like this one, just to get it right, the dollars add up very quickly.
Plus, are the modification done to the car, done properly or are they going to have paint issues, panel issues.

In saying all of the above, if you are aware of the issues, mentioned and still think it is worth while, I hope you make the right discession and enjoy the outcome.

Good Luck,

csmab

It sounds like you have enough info to be an "informed buyer" as to what you are actually getting. With that being said, if this is the car you want and the PPI checks out you should buy it. When it comes time to sell, it might take a while to find a buyer who isn't concerned about the authenticity of the car. Usually buyers that are seeking "S" body cars will prefer an original vs an aftermarket version. The fact that this is an aftermarket wide body really doesn't add any real value. You know....Porsche buyers can be very critical and finicky when it comes to originality....or maybe I am just describing myself.

Neil Perry

Hi
Just noticed you mentioned you are paying a fair price for a C4 with some additions.

This car is not worth the value of a good C4, it is worth a lot less that a C4, this car is a Hot Rod.

If the additions are bolt on, so what, they can be unbolted, this car has panel changes, new sills and I think you mentioned modified rear quarters with fibreglass, this an issue.
I personally would take of at least $10,000.00 of a C4 price, to get a price for this car.

1985mb

Here are the PPI results, some of them are presumably results of tracking by the PCA member 10 years ago:

1. Right Rear Outer Cv Joint Broken.
2. Has Modified Exhaust System And No Catalytic
Converters. The Original Ducting Providing Fresh Air
To The Heat Exchangers Is Missing.
3. Right Rear Shock/ Strut Is Loose. Something
Is Not Tightened.
4. Left Front Inner Fender Liner Is Missing.
5. Ac Lines On The Left And The Oil Lines On The
Right Are Pinched. Presumably From Using A
Floor Jack At The Racetrack.
6. There Are Noticeable Vertical Cracks In The Door
Sills Below The Doors On Both Right & Left Sides.
7. Sill Extensions At The Bottom Rear Of The
Front Fenders Appear To Be On The Outer Surface
Of The Fenders Suggesting That The Sill Extensions
Are Not Original.
Beading Between Tops Of The Fenders And
The Cowl Is Missing.
8. Compression Test Shows All Cylinders Are
Between 175 & 190 Lbs.
9. Some Oil Leakage From Chain Covers & Left
Side Of Engine. Not Surprising Given The Mileage.

jimbo3

Seems like something of a neglected/bastardized car. If you're still not convinced that you shouldn't buy this car, have a cylinder leak down done. (A Porsche indy would have known to do this.) Something tells me that leak down results ain't going to be pretty.

Neil Perry

Hi,
Please conside my previous two posts.
Interesting, now looking at the PPI report, and these are the areas you can get too or see, what else is there that is not easy to find, what else on the modifications will fail or crack.

My estamation of $10,000.00 was probably on the light side.

I would also guess this car has had a complete respray.

If you want a 993 save a little longer and get a good car, not someone elses problems.

berni29

Run Forest run!

1985mb

I passed on the car.