V

I know this is one of the very last things you should do to the 993 and there are many other ways to loose weight, but still, what's the verdict?

I know Bill V drilled his to shave weight and I've heard it's a royal PITA. Are the stock crash bars aluminum or steel? If steel one could consider aluminum replacements. The 993RS/RSCS also have the same crash bars so I guess that means that they should not be tampered with.

I say this CF version on the Cargraphic website. Looks really neat but does it really help?

I did a search without finding much. Just wanted to throw this out there and guage the reaction. Bad idea?

AOW162435

On a fully-prepared race car with a full cage, sure. On a street car, I'd leave 'em as is.

And yes, the bars are aluminum.


Andreas

Mark in Baltimore

My car has a full cage and I have all of my bumper bars in place and intact. (I have to make a minimum weight.) I think drilling them out would carry a minor but acceptable risk but removing them would be a bad idea since any crash or collision energy would be transferred into the body, engine, etc. If you really wanted to win your DE, sure, go for it. If you have a full-on GT car that you're trying to get under 2500lbs., it's probably a logical place to look.

Shoot Chris Walrod a PM to talk about CF construction to see if the Cargraphic bars meet minimum standards for engineering and crashworthiness, assuming you can obtain close-up photos of the bars.

race911

I took them off the RS America, the street car sequel to the wrecked race car. Mainly to facilitate oil lines for the second cooler. As Mark states above, absent competitive reasons, there would be zero point. (Not to mention in any stock class of PCA Club Racing removal is prohibited.)

In any case, last Saturday I was quite surprised to have my student mention he'd seen 120 on the dash going into Laguna T2. I seldom get over 117-118, and yet with nearly 200 lbs. of extra weight we got a good run out of T11 to get that result. So my conclusion is that none of us are that good for it to matter.

NP993

Does anyone understand what they actually do? They're not going to save you in a head-on with a tractor trailer. They're not going to save the bumper cover in a fender-bender. They're not going to save the unibody from getting bent, because they're bolted directly to...the unibody. What are they there for? I really don't get it.

Quadcammer

probably extra crumple zone. Of if you take a low speed shot in the center of the front of the car (i.e. you hit a pole square in the middle), it prevents your trunk from becoming an accordian

Mark in Baltimore

Hey, Noah,

The shock absorbers in the supports dissipate energy that would otherwise be transferred directly into the body since , of course, the bumper covers are too fragile to offer any protection. I spun at the bus stop at the Glen at my very first race and backed into the styrofoam wall and passed a scrutineer's inspection, meaning PCA did not see any significant damage. Without that internal support bar, I'm really certain I would have rearranged the sheet-metal in the back of the car.

jimq

bend the front and the insurance adjuster sees it expect to answer a few questions especially if injuries are involved.

race911

I'm taking it you mean with the support removed. If so, you know this from working in the industry, or a specific fact situation?

I've been involved with two severe wrecks concerning customers, one Porsche and one not, one with a fatality. Both extremely modified cars. Way beyond what we're talking here on a crash support. The fatality was settled for the policy limit, the other did not have a passenger involved. I never got word there was much to do about the cars being modified. (I worked on both cars, but did not do the modifications.) Granted, this was in the '80s and mid-'90s.

daltvater

I'm curious about these as well. If these are safe they would save a good amount of weight. I'd guess that combined those crash bars are 30-40 lbs.

Anyone know how much these cost? I couldn't find a price.
http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/porsche-per...e-parts-01.asp

NP993

Modern cars have styrofoam crash bars. Any reason we couldn't do this for a 993? It's gotta be at least a 35-pound weight savings, and right where it pays off, on the ends of the car.

daltvater

There are crash bars/bumpers behind all that styrofoam. Just a guess but I'd bet that styrofoam is used on modern cars to absorb impact on slow speed 5-10 mph crashes? Just a guess. They may also help keep the plastic bumper cover shaped correctly.

race911

Again, under what circumstances are you driving the car where it makes a damned bit of difference???

daltvater

The difference is the weight. If there is no impact on safety I'd love another significant weight reduction. Forget lap times, 200 lbs off a stock 993 causes the car to come to life. Night and day when it comes to the fun factor even on a daily driver. I'm most curious about these CF units because there is no sacrifice to creature comfort. (assuming they hold up in a crash and you're alive!)

V

It's funny how reducing weight almost always becomes a tradeoff where you either have to give up safety or comfort. Giving up safety is not a good idea, hence my post. I'm guessing the best "compromise" would be drilling a few holes in them, just like Bill V did. If it's worth it...