appear

Hello

I spoke with Cartronic ( http://www.cartronic-motorsport.de/e/ ) today regarding their 3.8L Mahle kit.

I was enquiring about a live remap, saw the package on their website and decided to ask if they had a solution for my Tip. When the time comes for a top end rebuild, it seems like great way to make the best of a bad situation.

Previously I have received quotes up to 20.000 € for this operation.

However Cartronic quoted me (only) 6.500 € for their 3.8L kit including complete fitment and all additional parts (even oil, gaskets etc.). They told me they have done several installs with great results. I know it's still a pretty big chunk of cash and that it will only bump the engine 20-25 Hp. but compared to danish prices for a top end rebuild it's actually cheaper to go with the 3.8L kit.


Any reason not to do this besides 'value for money'?

Does anyone here have good or bad experience with Cartronic that they wish to share?

Will a professionally installed 3.8L Mahle kit be as good as a standard top end rebuild with original parts?


Thanks!

camlob

I would go for the 4l kit of L&N Eng. More bang for buck. The 3.8 is actually only 3,750cc.

appear

Thanks camlob. The 4L kit would be great for sure - not sure if it's available in Europe though.

In Denmark we have a car-tax paragraph which states that engine upgrades can't add more than 20% power, otherwise you're eligible for a 10k+ USD tax.

3.8L kit + 200-Cell cats should be around 15% over vram stock-power, while 4L probaly would take the car over the limit and make the upgrade very expensive.

If my car had already been rebuilt I would not consider the 3.8L upgrade, but it just seems like the obvious way to go when the mahle 3.8 kit in germany is priced similar to a 3.6 top end rebuild here in denmark. Unless, of course someone has different advice... So far I have only found positive mentions of the mahle kit.

adamvandenbos

+1 on the mahle 3.8 kit.

I would contact.

Protomotive
http://www.protomotive.com/products.html
Andial
http://www.andial.com/pc_eng_mahle.html
Fvd
http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/99...9mm_Mahle.html

camlob

I would contact Capricorn. They are based in Europe and have a 4l kit. They actually sell to other tuners/shops.

Regarding the Danish law, I think it is a grey area. How can they measure exactly what 20% is? Do they ask for a dyno sheet?

EckFe1

The 4.0 l kit has seen lot's of cracked cylinders due to the higher thermal load. At least in Germany where the WOT time can be very high on empty roads. The 3.8l slip in kit is also weaker in the cylinder walls. 107 vs. 109mm dia.
Just something to consider.
Ed

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

The ONLY way I'd do this for a street car is by using the Mahle RSR 3.8 P/C's which are not slip-in; the case must be machined for these thick walled cylinders and different rods are required to fit the RSR pistons.

While certainly not cheap, IMHO, this is the most durable and reliable package for maximum engine longevity.

camlob

According to Charles N at L&N, the old 4l kits were garbage. Well, I have to see on whether he speaks the truth Ill let you guys know after a couple of thousand kms.

RP993

i would suggest to take a look at 9m / ninemeister billet heads with 3,6 or 3,8 L and way much better performance, than the stock Mahle kit.

They are in England, not so far away from you.

appear

Thank you for all the great advice here.

I will need to give this more consideration - when Steve says the standard Mahle kit isn't a good idea, thats means it's a dead end for me.

evoderby

Cartronic do both the 107mm slip fit Mahles as well as the 109mm variant that needs the case to be machined. I would ask whether in their experience high speed street / autobahn use requires the 109mm items.

Cargraphic also do a 3.8 liter kit (Capricorn) including matching Chip.

As mentioned by Camlob, displacement only increases with 150cc so unless your pistons and barrels are worn to begin with I wouldn't bother spending on new items.

tropheus

I haven't seen the kit you referring too on his webpage. Can you send a link where you can see the kit including costs?

Jack

camlob

Hi Jack. Here is the email of Charles N. charles@lnengineering.com

Here is their website. http://www.lnengineering.com/

I didnt notice you checked their website. Email him directly for a quote. Actually its on their webpage under 911, 105mm cylinders. There is a price range though.

I have no affiliation with them. I am just a happy user

Paul

appear

I spoke with FVD (Mahle), Cartronic (Mahle) and Cargraphic (Capricon) and asked them if they had seen any problems with the 107mm slip-in versions. I made it clear the extra cost was not a factor. They were adamant that the 107mm is as good as bulletproof.

I really like the simplicity of the bolt-on solution, and to be fair the price for the 3.8L kit is very attractive when the time comes for a rebuild - only 3.500 EUR.

In case the 107mm kit endured problems would it then most likely affect other parts of the engine or would I 'just' need to replace the parts of the Mahle kit? I don't want to speculate in this at all, but the cost of a machined 109mm solution is almost the same as two bolt-on mahle-kits.

Besides the Mahle kit I am considering an RS Camshaft (for hydraulic lifters) and then just the typical top-end rebuild treatment etc.

RP993

hello,

once you install a 3,8L kit have you made thoughts about an exhaust kit?

here's cargraphic's N-GTX kit, which would be a great benefit to the 3,8L.

i have a used set, if you're interested in, please just send me a PM

here's a link:

http://www.cargraphic-ms.de/index.ph...,article,4283/