Tiptronic Supercharger Project - data logging begins
07-24-2011, 02:30 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Not affiliate. I think anyone can use - you just have to sign an agreement basically saying you won't distribute and use for business I believe.
07-25-2011, 12:01 AM
#63
Here's a picture before I moved the a/w injection ahead of the SC. As you can see it was getting on a bit when I took the picture and needed a clean :-) . Also the filter orientation is different so that I reduced intake side pressure drop at high power levels. Also included an earlier picture of pre-cold intake with the 2 stage a/w post SC. As you can see its a few years older but its been so much fun :-)
BTW. Any issue with spraying before the supercharger?
I am interested I AW (mostly water) to control heat.
07-25-2011, 12:15 AM
#64
So today was the first day of shake down testing after we have installed the kit. I have not floored it yet and I'm taking it easy and ensuring everything is secure and working correctly. The good thing is the car does not stall anymore. The ECU must be learning and adjusting items to suit the new configuration.
This is what I have noticed so far. On slight acceleration you can feel a marked improvement in acceleration. A lot more infact. I'm driving at the normal speeds that I normally drive - which is rather slow and granny like. But I've noticed that I am using less thottle to achieve normal driving speeds.
There where two times I put the throttle half way down - the SC whine gets louder and the car accelerated very progressively. The surge of power is very linear and it just goes on. I haven't taken it to the red line yet or booted it. Max revs probably around 5k.
There is a lot more power in the lower rev range - say from idle to 4k. Feels like the car is pulling harder in that range now than it did when it was stock and gunning it from 4k revs to redline.
The push of acceleration is very smooth as well. As your push down on the accelerator the thrust just builds greater and greater - very addictive. Off the line the car takes off much better.
Three things I've noticed so far that sort of worry me:
1. It's hot under the engine bay. After a good drive I pulled over to look things over. The coolant in the chargecooler tank was body temperature. The metal pipes, chargecooler housing, and top of the SC was warm to the touch. Probably more than warm - almost too hot to touch.
2. When I got home I noticed that the engine fan was not spinning. Its jammed - I can't even move it. One thing bad about the install of the fan pulley and the fan is that there is no connection between the two - nothing links them. If you don't have the belt on you can spin the fan pulley and hold the fan down. I need to look into this as I think this added to the extra heat in the engine bay. Did any of you guys have this? Did you ever look into a solution to connect the fan to the pulley?
3. I notice the exhuast burbles a lot more. If I start to slow down in second and let go off on the accelerator slightly the exhuast burbles and pops a lot. What's causing this? Do you guys get this as well? I have Fabpseed de-cat on my car.
This is what I have noticed so far. On slight acceleration you can feel a marked improvement in acceleration. A lot more infact. I'm driving at the normal speeds that I normally drive - which is rather slow and granny like. But I've noticed that I am using less thottle to achieve normal driving speeds.
There where two times I put the throttle half way down - the SC whine gets louder and the car accelerated very progressively. The surge of power is very linear and it just goes on. I haven't taken it to the red line yet or booted it. Max revs probably around 5k.
There is a lot more power in the lower rev range - say from idle to 4k. Feels like the car is pulling harder in that range now than it did when it was stock and gunning it from 4k revs to redline.
The push of acceleration is very smooth as well. As your push down on the accelerator the thrust just builds greater and greater - very addictive. Off the line the car takes off much better.
Three things I've noticed so far that sort of worry me:
1. It's hot under the engine bay. After a good drive I pulled over to look things over. The coolant in the chargecooler tank was body temperature. The metal pipes, chargecooler housing, and top of the SC was warm to the touch. Probably more than warm - almost too hot to touch.
2. When I got home I noticed that the engine fan was not spinning. Its jammed - I can't even move it. One thing bad about the install of the fan pulley and the fan is that there is no connection between the two - nothing links them. If you don't have the belt on you can spin the fan pulley and hold the fan down. I need to look into this as I think this added to the extra heat in the engine bay. Did any of you guys have this? Did you ever look into a solution to connect the fan to the pulley?
3. I notice the exhuast burbles a lot more. If I start to slow down in second and let go off on the accelerator slightly the exhuast burbles and pops a lot. What's causing this? Do you guys get this as well? I have Fabpseed de-cat on my car.
Also if the fan doesn't turn, DO NOT drive the car!!! It'll burn your engine.
07-25-2011, 03:39 AM
#65
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yeah. All shims removed. The pulley sits on the face of the fan. But there is nothing directly connecting the two. They can spin freely. Is your fan and pulley some how attached?
It could be the extra wash I put on before the nut to tighten the pulley down. It seems that the fan is pushed right back and rubbing with the back of the housing.
It could be the extra wash I put on before the nut to tighten the pulley down. It seems that the fan is pushed right back and rubbing with the back of the housing.
07-25-2011, 04:09 AM
#66
Yeah. All shims removed. The pulley sits on the face of the fan. But there is nothing directly connecting the two. They can spin freely. Is your fan and pulley some how attached?
It could be the extra wash I put on before the nut to tighten the pulley down. It seems that the fan is pushed right back and rubbing with the back of the housing.
It could be the extra wash I put on before the nut to tighten the pulley down. It seems that the fan is pushed right back and rubbing with the back of the housing.
07-25-2011, 08:49 AM
#67
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Axl - you are too kind. Thanks for running out to check - next time - no rush at all. I really appreciate your input with this project. Most helpful.
I'm taking the fan pulley and fan apart to see how I can fix this. Is there any spacer behind the fan itself? Perhaps this is my problem. Looking at the PET there does not seem to be any spacer in the assembly. But if I tighten the screw too far the fan will be pushed right back and contact the back of the fan housing and stop spinning.
Also - the back face of the pulley is just smooth and flat - there are no holes for screws or any pins that would connect the fan pulley and the fan together. It's just the pressure of the nut that is pushing them together.
I'll take the opportunity to also cut out the fan housing a little so the pulley does not touch the fan housing. I can already see that the pulley and fan housing have been ground down alittle already.
The electric cables for the spoiler motor also needs extending so that you can route them around the SC pulley when the lid is closed.
I wish they would have mentioned these things in the documentation - could save a lot of time and assist in making better decisions during the install.
I'm taking the fan pulley and fan apart to see how I can fix this. Is there any spacer behind the fan itself? Perhaps this is my problem. Looking at the PET there does not seem to be any spacer in the assembly. But if I tighten the screw too far the fan will be pushed right back and contact the back of the fan housing and stop spinning.
Also - the back face of the pulley is just smooth and flat - there are no holes for screws or any pins that would connect the fan pulley and the fan together. It's just the pressure of the nut that is pushing them together.
I'll take the opportunity to also cut out the fan housing a little so the pulley does not touch the fan housing. I can already see that the pulley and fan housing have been ground down alittle already.
The electric cables for the spoiler motor also needs extending so that you can route them around the SC pulley when the lid is closed.
I wish they would have mentioned these things in the documentation - could save a lot of time and assist in making better decisions during the install.
07-25-2011, 09:20 AM
#68
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Clean install. Enjoy!
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TPC Racing
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TPC Racing
Website: www.tpcracing.com
Email: info@tpcracing.com
Phone: (410)799-7223
Facebook | Youtube
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge Champions
2021 Porsche Sprint Challenge Champions
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champions
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champions
2006 Grand Am Rolex 24hr of Daytona GT Winner
07-25-2011, 10:27 AM
#69
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thank you. I have to say - the install is not too bad. No harder than any other project I've done on the car so far. Probably easier than Bilstein HD/M030 project.
The TPC kit has put a big grin on my face. I'm sure it'll get bigger as I slowly tune out the minor issues.
Also - I got a pretty quick reply from Tom at TPC when I had a question on the vacuum hose connections.
The TPC kit has put a big grin on my face. I'm sure it'll get bigger as I slowly tune out the minor issues.
Also - I got a pretty quick reply from Tom at TPC when I had a question on the vacuum hose connections.
07-26-2011, 01:12 PM
#70
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
This is how I plan to ensure that the fan pulley and engine fan are connected and will not spin independantly. I have remove one of the three bolts that hold the fan bearing hub onto the fan. Then I drilled a hole in the pulley that will allow a long headless screw to fit between the two. Lets hope this works.
I have also grinded down some of the metal on the fan housing so the tensioner pulley will not touch the fan housing.
I have also grinded down some of the metal on the fan housing so the tensioner pulley will not touch the fan housing.
Last edited by haygeebaby; 09-05-2011 at 02:18 AM.
07-28-2011, 03:38 PM
#71
Hi axl911,
I used a multistage system based on rpm but decided to go single stage firing about 275cc/min of 50:50 a:w using the standard windscreen bottle with a feed to the engine bay. I have seen no effect on the SC other than increased efficiency and a little extra boost. With straight water I got hesitation as the the ignition system was over loaded and the spark blown out. You may not see that issue.
There are multiple effects working in your favour with a mix of water and methanol. Water for in cylinder cooling and hence increased equivalent octane, methanol for increased intake cooling, density and hence SC efficiency. Ahead of SC gives better sealing giving increased efficiency and a little more boost.
As the overall characteristics are driven mainly by the SC intake and the pulley sizes, I found increasing the overall system efficiency as the way to get the best out of the whole so as to reduce overheating the cylinders/heads. Hence anything that was parasitic on the SC such as bends, intercoolers, 400cell cats etc was removed/replaced resulting in an increased overall performance for a given pulley size. I am currently investigating ways of improving the intake side of the SC as used on other SC based cars. That last bend into the SC reduces the top end for me (1/2lb pressure drop at the SC intake equ to 1lb of boost after SC at high rpms - modelled pressure drop). And whether a better exhaust cam can be used to increase air flow. I dont really know if that would help but getting the exhaust out seems to be limiting what I can achieve with whole.
Cheers, Mark.
I used a multistage system based on rpm but decided to go single stage firing about 275cc/min of 50:50 a:w using the standard windscreen bottle with a feed to the engine bay. I have seen no effect on the SC other than increased efficiency and a little extra boost. With straight water I got hesitation as the the ignition system was over loaded and the spark blown out. You may not see that issue.
There are multiple effects working in your favour with a mix of water and methanol. Water for in cylinder cooling and hence increased equivalent octane, methanol for increased intake cooling, density and hence SC efficiency. Ahead of SC gives better sealing giving increased efficiency and a little more boost.
As the overall characteristics are driven mainly by the SC intake and the pulley sizes, I found increasing the overall system efficiency as the way to get the best out of the whole so as to reduce overheating the cylinders/heads. Hence anything that was parasitic on the SC such as bends, intercoolers, 400cell cats etc was removed/replaced resulting in an increased overall performance for a given pulley size. I am currently investigating ways of improving the intake side of the SC as used on other SC based cars. That last bend into the SC reduces the top end for me (1/2lb pressure drop at the SC intake equ to 1lb of boost after SC at high rpms - modelled pressure drop). And whether a better exhaust cam can be used to increase air flow. I dont really know if that would help but getting the exhaust out seems to be limiting what I can achieve with whole.
Cheers, Mark.
07-28-2011, 05:46 PM
#72
Hi axl911,
I used a multistage system based on rpm but decided to go single stage firing about 275cc/min of 50:50 a:w using the standard windscreen bottle with a feed to the engine bay. I have seen no effect on the SC other than increased efficiency and a little extra boost. With straight water I got hesitation as the the ignition system was over loaded and the spark blown out. You may not see that issue.
There are multiple effects working in your favour with a mix of water and methanol. Water for in cylinder cooling and hence increased equivalent octane, methanol for increased intake cooling, density and hence SC efficiency. Ahead of SC gives better sealing giving increased efficiency and a little more boost.
As the overall characteristics are driven mainly by the SC intake and the pulley sizes, I found increasing the overall system efficiency as the way to get the best out of the whole so as to reduce overheating the cylinders/heads. Hence anything that was parasitic on the SC such as bends, intercoolers, 400cell cats etc was removed/replaced resulting in an increased overall performance for a given pulley size. I am currently investigating ways of improving the intake side of the SC as used on other SC based cars. That last bend into the SC reduces the top end for me (1/2lb pressure drop at the SC intake equ to 1lb of boost after SC at high rpms - modelled pressure drop). And whether a better exhaust cam can be used to increase air flow. I dont really know if that would help but getting the exhaust out seems to be limiting what I can achieve with whole.
Cheers, Mark.
I used a multistage system based on rpm but decided to go single stage firing about 275cc/min of 50:50 a:w using the standard windscreen bottle with a feed to the engine bay. I have seen no effect on the SC other than increased efficiency and a little extra boost. With straight water I got hesitation as the the ignition system was over loaded and the spark blown out. You may not see that issue.
There are multiple effects working in your favour with a mix of water and methanol. Water for in cylinder cooling and hence increased equivalent octane, methanol for increased intake cooling, density and hence SC efficiency. Ahead of SC gives better sealing giving increased efficiency and a little more boost.
As the overall characteristics are driven mainly by the SC intake and the pulley sizes, I found increasing the overall system efficiency as the way to get the best out of the whole so as to reduce overheating the cylinders/heads. Hence anything that was parasitic on the SC such as bends, intercoolers, 400cell cats etc was removed/replaced resulting in an increased overall performance for a given pulley size. I am currently investigating ways of improving the intake side of the SC as used on other SC based cars. That last bend into the SC reduces the top end for me (1/2lb pressure drop at the SC intake equ to 1lb of boost after SC at high rpms - modelled pressure drop). And whether a better exhaust cam can be used to increase air flow. I dont really know if that would help but getting the exhaust out seems to be limiting what I can achieve with whole.
Cheers, Mark.
The SC itself can generate alot of heat. Likewise, on extended boost such as a long hill climb, cylinder head temp can really increase.
What are your experiences with cylinder head temp when using the SC with and without the AW injection?
With your current AW injection, when do you start spraying?
07-29-2011, 06:05 AM
#73
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Looks like the fan mod works well. Here is the cardboard mock-up of the cold air box.
I'll fabricate it this weekend out of sheet metal.
Mark - also interested in details of your AW injection system. That is what I will install shortly.
Is your system triggered by boost or by maf?
I will probably opt for this kit http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=9
Where do you recommend I install the two injector nozzles?
I'll fabricate it this weekend out of sheet metal.
Mark - also interested in details of your AW injection system. That is what I will install shortly.
Is your system triggered by boost or by maf?
I will probably opt for this kit http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=9
Where do you recommend I install the two injector nozzles?
Last edited by haygeebaby; 01-25-2012 at 09:20 AM.
07-29-2011, 06:15 PM
#74
Hi guys,
my main issues before installing aw injection that effected head temperature were the intake temperature hence the cold air intake. Normal ecu retard above 25C greatly increased head temperature even without detonation occuring. With aw any detonation on boost just stopped.
I have used a simple aquamist system based on boost switching on at 5lb. I believe more recent pumps allow 100% methonal which my pump doesnt. Hence I do not know if that would be better.
Best regards, Mark.
my main issues before installing aw injection that effected head temperature were the intake temperature hence the cold air intake. Normal ecu retard above 25C greatly increased head temperature even without detonation occuring. With aw any detonation on boost just stopped.
I have used a simple aquamist system based on boost switching on at 5lb. I believe more recent pumps allow 100% methonal which my pump doesnt. Hence I do not know if that would be better.
Best regards, Mark.
07-29-2011, 06:43 PM
#75
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Cool project. I miss my 993 Cab. Cant keep everything. I am taking everything out of the Market and just buy lottery tickets.
I know my debt ceiling.
I know my debt ceiling.