No HTwo O

I'm kinda fond of my kidneys. Plus, don't I need those to help process beer? Or is that my liver?

I was thinking my *********. Because if I come home with another Porsche, I won't be needing 'em anyways.

tcsracing1

yes, this car is 40k over priced, but pay 140k for both cars, park them for 15 years and see which car is worth more...... considering the never ending evolution of ferraris and the already legend icon of the 993 it would be wise to assume that the 993 would be the better investment.....

goofballdeluxe

Looks like The Great Pumpkin had a garage sale.

For $140K, 993 Turbo S probably would be a better buy.

IamSMC

I hope you know that Andial was running Porsche Motorsports NA for Porsche

And any knowledgeable Porschephile wouldn't mind having Arnold (AN), Dieter (DI) or Alwin (AL) do their magic on their Porsches
http://www.andial.com/about.html

IamSMC

To make this statement, you need to understand the history of Ruf cars

Ruf VIN cars exsisted after they became approved by the German government as a manufacturer

Prior to this, all Ruf cars were modified on Porsche VIN cars

While there has been long standing arguements about what constitutes a real Ruf car by its VIN or not, Ruf themselves have always recognized Ruf cars whether it has a Ruf VIN or not
http://www.ruf-automobile.de/en/en-u...geschichte.php

Texas993

You don't have the facts of a RUF turbo r correctly stated. First, some cars, like mine, were actually converted in the RUF shop in Germany. Second, the RUF kits were not simple bolt on kits.

I agree that the Andial conversions were definitely more involved. As I stated earlier, they are amazing cars. I am most familiar with CJ Wilson's former Andial.

The few Andial and Turbo R sales that I have heard about were at a significant premium to a comparable 993tt. But I doubt that they recovered all of the cost of the modifications.

Back on topic, I agree that this car's value is not enhanced by the Andial conversion. - For most buyers - If it had 25k + miles, it would be worth more than a similar car without the modifications.

bb993tt

As was the one I previously owned.

vjd3

I wasn't implying a true Ruf car is a bolt-on conversion ... I said it was anything but a bolt-on, as is an Andial car. That's why there's a big difference in value after the fact. You could buy kits from Zucs or Powerhaus for your Turbo and get various horsepower gains but that doesn't make it an engineered car the way a Ruf or an Andial conversion car would be.

At the time I considered having a Ruf conversion done on my own car, there was no official Ruf presence in the US, and the way it was done was to fly a Ruf technician in from Germany and have him tear down and build the car at a local facility. It would not have a Ruf VIN, of course, but it would still be a proper Ruf and should be valued as such. I don't know how many people actually did that, but as I recall, Ruf only got a set number of chassis from Porsche to put their own VINs on. I would still argue that, say, a Yellowbird with a RUF VIN would be considered rarer than a converted car, and hence more coveted. I don't know how many CTR (or CTR-2) conversions were done on customer cars, but if my memory is correct there were only a couple dozen Yellowbirds with Ruf VINs in existence. Irregardless, whether it has a VIN or not, if it's a true Ruf or Andial car, it should be priced accordingly.

People put Andial or Ruf parts in their Turbos, but that's not the same as the real deal. Every time a Ruf comes up for sale, the first question is usually, "But is it a REAL Ruf?" or does it just have a Ruf turbo or intercooler or gauges or whatever installed.

Kind of a moot point ... this orange car is probably a rocket and will have significant value to somebody. Any tuner car at this level isn't an investment anyway.

firesm

I think it is a beautiful car - but as soon as someone starts to talk about depreciation or potential resale - this is not the car for them. At 140K this car is for the buyer who can drop that kind of money and not think twice about it - they just want the car to add to their collection. If I had 140K to buy a car (and just so we're clear I'm about 139.5K shy of that) I think my money would be better spent taking my time and trying to find a nice TT for around 60-65K that I could drive the hell out of, have fun doing some mods to and just enjoy the whole experience of owning and driving it. Then I'd have another 80K or so to do whatever I wanted... the possibilities would be endless. Just my $0.02.

Texas993

Hey Vic,

We agree with each other. I misunderstood your earlier comments. BTW, RUFUS was converted by a RUF Germany tech who flew to the US to convert it. I remember reading Steve's strings showing the photos and the process of the conversion.

You should see the parts list and invoice on my car's conversion. Wow, it is lengthy. I once had Hans at RUF translate it for me. Pretty extensive work!

Interestingly enough, RUF Dallas didn't really do that many Turbo R conversions. I never asked them for an official count, but I bet it was less than 20 over the years. I have only known of less than 5 in as many years. But I don't clain to know everything that they have done.

vjd3

Sounds awesome, Patrick. If I ever drive up to Dallas from Austin, would love to see it.

I got a ride in a Ruf 930 back in 1990, that was a scary car, just raw and brutally quick. Made me think of that line in Pano about the reason they put the high back sport seats in the car is so your head won't fall off when the boost comes on.

tdiferrari

120k is a very strong offer, and probably the only offer they may receive over $100k, given an extremely inflated starting price, save, of course, for someone who really wants it from across the pond.

Andial certainly adds a few in my book, but not more than 10-15k. Barney for around 50k seemed like a steal in comparison.

niche

I saw that car last time i was at Truspeed. definitely an attention grabber. I say they take your offer. I was told the car was 130k. Kinda high, but it is an Andial. I want it.

TRINITONY

Quadcammer

Hmm...well I can't agree. The 430s are pretty comfortable and useable, and with the chains instead of belts, the services are far simpler. My next car will probably be a 360 or 430, and I intend to drive the snot out of it. What helps is that I will do my own maintenance, which greatly reduces the cost.

With the pumpkin 993TT, you'd take such a hosing in value by driving it that much, that to me it would make more sense buying a higher mile car.

either way, we are definitely on the same page when it comes to driving these cars.


I don't buy cars to park them. My investment portfolio has easily outpaced the returns offered by all but the most rare vehicles. Now, 993TT values may not plummet, but I don't think they are going to greatly appreciate either. Furthermore, with such a love it/hate it color, you are really limiting your buyers.

I guess I'm the ignorant one here. But I think that goes to my point that I, a 993TT owner and porsche enthusiast, had no idea about andial's background and never had any real impetus to learn. I'm not sure if the average high end car buyer would know that either.

There is no question that they build a fine vehicle, but I still think Ruf is more recognizable in the global marketplace.