What's the best cone type air filter?
02-09-2011, 03:53 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
lorenfb. Steves right. But this has been done already on 964 forum. Have a search. Static idle figures will be different from real world figured on the move. On the track consensus was nil difference or likely 3-4 bhp inn facour cone. In traffic or when at idle other way inn facvour of stock airbox. With mixeddrive cycle using open road and town maybe slightly for stock airbox but hard to tell. Key is driving environment. Theres a great 5 page thread if you look...
Cheers
M
Cheers
M
02-09-2011, 04:20 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
my 2 cents...if it helps...my c4s had the turbo wing when i purchased the car...I threw a turbo snorkel on the motorsound airbox (factory) so that I could take advantage of cooler external air...have no data to support findings but about 50k miles of real world driving experience...findings
* Slightly bettter throttle response on hot days (mid summer)
* Car runs cooler overall
* Slightly bettter throttle response on hot days (mid summer)
* Car runs cooler overall
02-09-2011, 09:19 PM
#18
"With mixeddrive cycle using open road and town maybe slightly for stock airbox but hard to tell."
As simple (and cheap) as this mod is do, you'd think Porsche would have
already tweaked it to the max. It's another waste of money which can
potentially damage the air mass sensor, which has enough problems
as is. The 964 doesn't have the save issue as it uses an AFM.
As simple (and cheap) as this mod is do, you'd think Porsche would have
already tweaked it to the max. It's another waste of money which can
potentially damage the air mass sensor, which has enough problems
as is. The 964 doesn't have the save issue as it uses an AFM.
02-09-2011, 11:18 PM
#19
Its not a matter of opinion. Every technical paper written on this subject favors the paper filter with a closer balance of proper filtration and air intake. I live in high dusty area and would never, under any circumstances put a metal filter on my 993.
....however on my Cuisinart 12 cup coffee maker, I do prefer metal over paper filter
....however on my Cuisinart 12 cup coffee maker, I do prefer metal over paper filter
02-09-2011, 11:30 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Hi Lorenbf. As the OP stated and also myself when posting some data points for his consideration, this isnt a debate as to the effectiveness of a dual cone filter. For that debate you can hit search and enjoy hours of often un qualified useless, heresay and opinion with the odd gem thrown in too. The factory airbox is good there is no doubt - best left un cut and unadulterated as the designers intented as when you start to drill large holes or cut aways it could be argued again you are creating a change in airflow path an effeciency as well as drawing in warmer air etc. Heres some great stuff on the subject in general with words from Colin Belton thrown in for interest:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...eferrerid=6980
Leon993. Sorry. I dont agree with your first statement and the second one is your opinion so you are welcome to that.
This subject matter always ends the same. It is great when people who have tried nd even dyno;d the various options available or used a temp sensor prob to log data make qualified observations f their own set up but its a total rant when people chime in with unqualified opinions based on what they believe to be true, what may be true in a different application or vehicle design etc etc.
The dual cone filter has advantages and disadvantages dependant on requirement, application load and environment. The stock factory airbox with paper filter has the least disadvntages but does not offer some of the advantaged other options such a a drilled motorsound or cone filter may provide. Its really an individual thing....
Cheers
M
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...eferrerid=6980
Leon993. Sorry. I dont agree with your first statement and the second one is your opinion so you are welcome to that.
This subject matter always ends the same. It is great when people who have tried nd even dyno;d the various options available or used a temp sensor prob to log data make qualified observations f their own set up but its a total rant when people chime in with unqualified opinions based on what they believe to be true, what may be true in a different application or vehicle design etc etc.
The dual cone filter has advantages and disadvantages dependant on requirement, application load and environment. The stock factory airbox with paper filter has the least disadvntages but does not offer some of the advantaged other options such a a drilled motorsound or cone filter may provide. Its really an individual thing....
Cheers
M
02-10-2011, 12:58 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Leon993. You sound paranoid. I guess after a decade and 40,000 miles of panel filter K&N and Cone filter MSDS (twice) I havent noticed whatever you are talking about.
I think the chances of a metal particle dropping off the outside of my air filter mesh and working itself through layers of cotton gauze to then enter my MAF through the screens, get sucketd down my intake pleneum and whooshed through past my inlet my valve to embed itself on the nikasil bore and score the wall on the next piston up stroke compromising the seating of the piston rings is as likely as....well....me winning the lottery!
My car runs just fine and I have published all my Dyno traces on this forum in the last 12 months along with a full break out of modications, benefits and opinions on the worth of such modifications etc (see thread "self gratification with pictures - 993 outlaw" and others).
As previously said. There are a number of guys who have measured intake temps on the run, idle and a constant velocity between box. box with trumpet and pod filter who have published data here. You just need to hit search and you will have a week of good reading. Theres nothing conclusive but even the most qualified to have opinion such as 9m will tell you this engine is sucking more air per second on WOT than the volume of the space it occupies. You dont have to be smart to then realise that ambient air temp over rides concerns of localised component thermal heat sink after a few seconds on the gas. In traffic different...
If you want purely an opinion then here you go.
"IMHO the dual cone filter gives benefits of a much cleaner look, better ventilation, more lively throttle response, better acoustics and lighter weight which suits my weekend spirited driving style and annual long distance touring and favours this solution over the factory airbox in both OEM paper filter, K&N panel filter, BMC filter, factory cover, motorsound cover and cut out cover guises that I have tried and lived with at various times over the last 10 years of enjoy this vehicle to the fullest. Dyno results with both factory airbox and cone filter on my 993 have shown no measurable diffference in performance under WOT in the (somewhat limited) Dyno room envirnonment". I recognise that in situations involving traffic or static idle where there are long period of potential latent heat absorbtion the factory airbox without holes or cut outs has advantages that last a number of seconds after acceleration and subsequent airflow is restored to the engine and its surrounds (no withstanding the fan thats already blowing vast amounts of air a all times over the engine). However when power is needed in times of performance driving and the "pedal is to the metal" IMHO there are no thermal disadvantages to the dual cone arrangement - the sound and throttle benefits of which this author finds attractive in a primal and spirital way enjoyed by those who drive old rear air cooled engined cars of dubious design and configuration and like thee smell of german glue and carpet and ticking hot metal"
Did you know that for a long long time it was common belief the world was flat.....untill they discovered it was round?
What ever your point was Leon993 by now Ive forgootten it, anyone whos read this post has forgotten it and hopefully you have forgotten it and made yourself a filter coffee so we can go on in peace the Original Poster can stop wetting himself with glee and laughter at responses not at all related to his TPC application and requirement for a cone filter where no factory airbox will any longer fit...
I think the chances of a metal particle dropping off the outside of my air filter mesh and working itself through layers of cotton gauze to then enter my MAF through the screens, get sucketd down my intake pleneum and whooshed through past my inlet my valve to embed itself on the nikasil bore and score the wall on the next piston up stroke compromising the seating of the piston rings is as likely as....well....me winning the lottery!
My car runs just fine and I have published all my Dyno traces on this forum in the last 12 months along with a full break out of modications, benefits and opinions on the worth of such modifications etc (see thread "self gratification with pictures - 993 outlaw" and others).
As previously said. There are a number of guys who have measured intake temps on the run, idle and a constant velocity between box. box with trumpet and pod filter who have published data here. You just need to hit search and you will have a week of good reading. Theres nothing conclusive but even the most qualified to have opinion such as 9m will tell you this engine is sucking more air per second on WOT than the volume of the space it occupies. You dont have to be smart to then realise that ambient air temp over rides concerns of localised component thermal heat sink after a few seconds on the gas. In traffic different...
If you want purely an opinion then here you go.
"IMHO the dual cone filter gives benefits of a much cleaner look, better ventilation, more lively throttle response, better acoustics and lighter weight which suits my weekend spirited driving style and annual long distance touring and favours this solution over the factory airbox in both OEM paper filter, K&N panel filter, BMC filter, factory cover, motorsound cover and cut out cover guises that I have tried and lived with at various times over the last 10 years of enjoy this vehicle to the fullest. Dyno results with both factory airbox and cone filter on my 993 have shown no measurable diffference in performance under WOT in the (somewhat limited) Dyno room envirnonment". I recognise that in situations involving traffic or static idle where there are long period of potential latent heat absorbtion the factory airbox without holes or cut outs has advantages that last a number of seconds after acceleration and subsequent airflow is restored to the engine and its surrounds (no withstanding the fan thats already blowing vast amounts of air a all times over the engine). However when power is needed in times of performance driving and the "pedal is to the metal" IMHO there are no thermal disadvantages to the dual cone arrangement - the sound and throttle benefits of which this author finds attractive in a primal and spirital way enjoyed by those who drive old rear air cooled engined cars of dubious design and configuration and like thee smell of german glue and carpet and ticking hot metal"
Did you know that for a long long time it was common belief the world was flat.....untill they discovered it was round?
What ever your point was Leon993 by now Ive forgootten it, anyone whos read this post has forgotten it and hopefully you have forgotten it and made yourself a filter coffee so we can go on in peace the Original Poster can stop wetting himself with glee and laughter at responses not at all related to his TPC application and requirement for a cone filter where no factory airbox will any longer fit...
