Aircooled Dave

I’ve been away from Porsche’s and air-cooled in general for more than 15 years now, but it seems that life is allowing me to get back into the game so I’m ready to look for another air-cooled Porsche. My dream has always been to own a 993. To me and I’m sure all of you it is just the quintessential aircooled 911. I’ve had a 993TT poster on my garage since 1995 and even though I’m not quite ready to take that plunge, I am ready to step up to the car just below it….a 993 C4S.

I currently drive a 2000 BMW M Coupe. While I absolutely love this car, I just can’t justify it any longer now that I have 2 little girls. I need something that can transport them from daycare from time to time if needed as well as a quick jaunt to the park or play date. The 993, although limited seems to be able to fit this bill while allowing Daddy to enjoy his time behind the wheel. If anyone is interested in a 2000 BMW M Coupe, let me know as it will be for sale after the acquisition of the 993.

Although I’m basically new here, I was hoping to elicit some help from some fellow Rennlisters in my quest to become a 993 owner. Specifically, if anyone in the Bay Area would like to meetup (I’m in West San Jose near Saratoga/Cupertino, but willing to drive anywhere in the bay area) so I can refresh myself with a car it would be appreciated. The NorCal Porsche community seems to be quite active, so I’m hoping someone is kind enough to help out. A test drive would be ideal and I’d be willing to reciprocate with a drive of my 2000 BMW M Coupe in turn if desired. Maybe an hour or so would be needed although I can talk for hours on end about cars.

Second, if anyone has any leads or recommendations on where to look beyond the normal Craigslist, autotrader, rennlist classifieds for these cars I would appreciate it.

Details of what I’m looking for:

• Year: 96-98 C4S Coupe (97-98 preferred, but will not turn away a 96); 40-60K mileage preferred for price and condition reasons.
• Ext Color: Silver (Arctic, Polar), Black, White or Iris Blue in no particular order. Not too fond of the other colors.
• Int Color: Black for the silver cars or black/cashmere for black car or black/gray for Iris blue. Don't really want to entertain swapping interior for the otherwise perfect car.
• Cosmetic Condition: Good Driver. Not looking for a concours winning low mileage garage queen. Stone chips are OK. Re-spray is OK as long as it's documented and done for cosmetic only such as rock chips, keyed side, etc...A little interior wear/tear is OK, but would prefer if it was in reasonably decent shape.
• Mech condition: Again, good driver. As long as nothing more major than SAI or valve guides it’s OK. Even willing to get a car that needs maintenance such as new clutch, LSD re-pack, etc… as long as it's priced accordingly.
• Documentation: Full doc is ideal obviously. OK with some missing info here and there as long as major items are addressed or if recent full-service was performed to bring the car up to spec. For example a car that has little/no docs from 40K-60K, but recently had a big 60K service to make up for lost time will be considered.
• Mods: Not mod averse. Aero Kit is a big bonus for me, but also a big cost adder so it’s not a must-have. Would certainly take a PSS9/PSS10 car, RS LTWF, silver gauges, etc...all the normal goodies we all lust after.
• Factory Options: Not too particular. Most C4S cars seem to come with the common litronic lights, sunroof and comfort seats, etc...Silver gauges, sport seats and other X options are nice, but I'm not too hung up on those.
• No accidents preferred. Will entertain minor bumper replacement from fender bender if fully documented. Re-spray is OK if documented as being done for cosmetic reasons such as road chips, keyed, etc....
• Location: Prefer West Coast car. CA, OR, WA, NV, AZ are ideal. Former East coast car now living in CA also OK.

I’ve been doing quite a bit of reading lately, both online and through books including Adrian Streather’s the “Porsche 993 Essential Companion”. Still coming up to speed on all the various options and combinations these cars could come with. As is typical of Porsche, the list is almost endless and would think no 2 cars are really alike. Any advice here on well sought after options? Any special areas to be concerned with? The only major issue seems to be a top-end rebuild at ~80Kmi due to leaking valve guides and a distributor belt breaking. Neither of which is a major concern to me if the rest of the car is OK and the price is right. I do nearly all maintenance myself and am well equipped for most jobs so most mechanical issues are OK. I’m not a painter though, so good cosmetics are preferred.

Cheers,
Dave

deadhead1960

I'm in NJ but there has been an interesting C4S available in Washington State for awhile. My guess it can be bought for low 40's. It's a bit more than stock but a lot of car for the money (or so it seems). Here's the link...and no affiliation. Good luck.

http://www.landmarkmotors.com/invent...rent=1&size=20

Magdaddy

good first post Dave.

first things first...spend the $17 for a membership to this site-it'll be the best Porsche $$ you'll probably ever spend.

Your on the proper coast for a C4S hunt, finding something to your liking should be pretty straightforward. That being said, if you are interested in variuos mods(and who isn't!) like suspension, exhaust, etc...look for a car with those already on it.

This forum will provide you so much support and encouragement, it's freightening. My personal advice, don't concentrate on the sai/top end worries...they exist, just as always look closely at records.

Good luck, and look as many times a day at the classifieds as you can on here, Pelican, Autotrader, Cars.com, craigslist, ebay, etc. The 993 C4S's are out there in surprisingly large numbers...I always saw probably 30 cars for sale at any given time. That being said, once you take out the garage queens, the abused, or over priced ones, the pool shrinks quickly. Be prepared to act quickly when you see/smell a good car at a decent price.

You do know what a Rennfax is too, right?

Good luck, and keep us in the loop.

Ed Burdell

Welcome, and good luck.

I can personally vouch for the 993's utility in carting one's kids around to various school and extracurricular activities. One day, they'll outgrow those back seats, but I can still squeeze my 10 year old and her waifish 12 year old sister back there, while my 14 year old son rides shotgun.

blake

RENNFAX explained: https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...bies-long.html

Good luck!

-Blake

Canyon56

Dave, I'm considering selling mine this spring. You're welcome to ask about it and if interested, I may decide to let it go sooner. Check my posts here and you'll find pics. 42k miles and Polar Silver on Midnight with sports seats. Everything's on paper and 100% accounted for since it left the factory. And for true market price and not wishful thinking price.

And it comes with all the tasteful and desirable mods (PSS-10s, 3-spoke wheel, etc..) that you'd end up doing anyway if you hang out here on Rennlist for too long.

p.s., I'm down on the Central Coast.

Stealth 993

Dave, welcome, the 993 is a great car, but coming from another great car, it will feel very different.
The ///M has way more low end grunt!, WAY MORE.
The ///M has faster & more precise steering, & turns in way faster.
The ///M has way more interior & storage space.

The 993 has the same kind of "feel", but is way more plated, & easier to drive fast. Brakes are on a whole other level. It feels more classic, & exotic over the ///M.

Maintaince will be about the same on part prices, but doing the work will take a lot more time. Doing a simple 30kmi service will take 2.5x as long in the 993, & cost more for the 2x cap & rotor, + 12 spark plugs.

The back seats are good for people around 4ft or under & the front seats are good for people under 6ft if you are going to use the back seats.

Drive a FEW 993's every car I have driven has felt different & unique.

Good luck!

Aircooled Dave

Wow, this is an active forum! Thanks for the responses everyone. This has to be the warmest forum welcome I have ever had. I've always found Porschephiles (<-is that considered derogatory?) to be quite welcoming and very down to earth. It is nice to see that hasn't diminished over the years. Do you folks still wave at each other when you drive past?

I’ve got cash in hand, so whenever the right car shows up I’m ready to pounce. I’m certainly not averse to any mods. In fact, I actually prefer some, just nothing too crazy. I actually bought my M Coupe with some tasty upgrades, such as an S54 oil cooler (my car is S52), adjustable sway bars, intake, etc… As long as the mods are tasteful, it is the best way to mod a car. Let someone else pay for it.

Good to know about the “Rennfax”. This is something that is quite common on most enthusiast forums, but I’ve never heard anyone actually name it. Kudos on that one! I’ll definitely take someone up on a Rennfax offer at some point and would be glad to “pay it forward” for someone else once I’m a little more dialed in on these cars. Makes buying from a distance a little easier than it used to when we had to browse through printed classifieds.

I would certainly love to get some seat time in a 993 locally. So if anyone reading this is local to the SF Bay Area please let me know. I would be glad to trade keys and let you experience the M Coupe. It is by far, the most enjoyable car I have ever owned. If I didn’t have 2 kids now and another sports car (Datsun 240Z) already in the garage, I would keep it and still get the 993.

Thanks for the kid compatibility comments. The wife is very supportive of my “Porsche Quest” as she calls it. Heck, we got married in my M Coupe and I still have my Datsun 240Z (2nd owner) from my bachelor days so she’s quite supportive. I’ve actually discussed the whole kid fitment issue with some 911 owners at my work (996/997 mostly) and I haven’t seen anything that stands out as an problem. Sure it’s more work getting them in and out when compared to a Honda Odyssey, but that’s a price well worth paying in my opinion. Some of my earliest car memories are of being in the backseat of my Dad’s 912. I hope to provide some of the same for my 2 little ones.

Any particularly tasty factory options/mods I should be considering for a C4S? Still trying to get my head around what is available. Found a list on p-car of option codes. Although somewhat helpful in showing a complete list of what was available, it doesn’t show what these look like.

dcdude

Mmmm, Saratoga. So nice. You need to be prepared to travel a little farther than that for the right car. Unless you've got more patience than me, there aren't that many C4S examples out there.

This is good advice. I definitely don't consider my 993 to be a car to tote the kids around even for short trips. I have two little ones, but I can only run a baby seat on the passenger side, as I'm 6'3". A booster seat behind me and the car is undriveable. Heresy, but there should be more space for everyone in a 997- it's simply a larger car. Much as I'd love to see you join the fold, if kid haulin' is a real need, an M3 may fit your needs best of all.

ginch

Its funny you guys mentioning the rear seat room. The guy that bought my last 964 was cross shopping it with 996's. He told me that part of the reason he chose my 964 was because his kids felt there was more room in the back compared to the 996 (and of course that the 964 is way more awesome ). I've never sat in the back of a 996 or 997 but that seemed strange to me! Regardless, good luck with the search. I found my C4S 200 km's norht of me 2 days after selling my 964. Just fate I guess!

Enjoy the forums man!

Derek

Aircooled Dave

Oh I'm willing to drive. My search radius is basically the West Coast (CA, OR, WA, NV & AZ). I prefer something local to Bay Area just for the obvious convenience, but will travel for the right car. I'm not under any allusions about finding the right car quickly or locally though. I fully expect a C4S to be much more difficult to find than a Honda Civic. I went through a similar ordeal when buying my M Coupe years ago. I actually bought that car in LA. They only made ~2800 total US production on those so they're about as scarce as a C4S would be, maybe even more so. The hunt is part of the fun!

Certainly thought about it. BMWs are great cars as well. An M3 would certainly make for a better kid hauler (or M5 is even better), but that's not my primary purpose. I need the ability to haul kids from time to time, but rarely would need to cram the whole family into the car for any extended period. The 993 would serve as my partial DD and kid transport to/from daycare or school on those occasions. The fact that a 911 is such a capable sports car and has the ability to haul some sub 10yr old kids around for short trips (although admittedly not ideal for it) makes the plunge into the car all the more reasonable. If the car didn't have backseats capable of hauling some kids around, I think a lot fewer people would be able to justify these cars as they would only be possible as bookends to your life. Either as a rich single guy/couple or retired. Seems a shame to me to only enjoy the 911 outside of your prime. IMO.

doveq

Hey Dave, best of luck.

I too was on the fence for a while and finally decided to just do it. I finally found what looks like a great 993 and will have it inspected next week.

Opinions are welcome...
1996 C4S polar silver on black 75k miles, rebuilt engine -- $45 000 CAD

race911

My car is available in the Concord area any time I'm out at the shop. Could have anything mounted on it from the skinny snow tires (now), the 996 Turbo 18s (rainy, last week), to the 19" GT3 wheels (dry). Sport seats, PSS9, and 140K miles will give you an idea what "average" is. (See: recent thread on 993 pricing/Bruce Anderson/Excellence. Or maybe not.)

Off to put the ski rack on it now. Been using the resort's free rentals, and even took a snowboard out this afternoon. Sore.........

Aircooled Dave

The hunt continues......

Almost found a car, but it PPI revealed an undocumented accident and it needed a bit more work than I was willing to put into it for the price so I had to walk away.

here's a bit more detailed info on what I'm looking for if anyone has a lead or is thinking of selling.

• Year: 96-98 C4S Coupe (97-98 preferred, but will not turn away a 96); 40-60K mileage preferred for price and condition reasons.
• Ext Color: Silver (Arctic, Polar), Black, White or Iris Blue in no particular order. Not too fond of the other colors.
• Int Color: Black for the silver cars or black/cashmere for black car or black/gray for Iris blue. Don't really want to entertain swapping interior for the otherwise perfect car.
• Cosmetic Condition: Good Driver. Not looking for a concours winning low mileage garage queen. Stone chips are OK. Re-spray is OK as long as it's documented and done for cosmetic only such as rock chips, keyed side, etc...A little interior wear/tear is OK, but would prefer if it was in reasonably decent shape.
• Mech condition: Again, good driver. As long as nothing more major than SAI or valve guides it’s OK. Even willing to get a car that needs maintenance such as new clutch, LSD re-pack, etc… as long as it's priced accordingly.
• Documentation: Full doc is ideal obviously. OK with some missing info here and there as long as major items are addressed or if recent full-service was performed to bring the car up to spec. For example a car that has little/no docs from 40K-60K, but recently had a big 60K service to make up for lost time will be considered.
• Mods: Not mod averse. Aero Kit is a big bonus for me, but also a big cost adder so it’s not a must-have. Would certainly take a PSS9/PSS10 car, RS LTWF, silver gauges, etc...all the normal goodies we all lust after.
• Factory Options: Not too particular. Most C4S cars seem to come with the common litronic lights, sunroof and comfort seats, etc...Silver gauges, sport seats and other X options are nice, but I'm not too hung up on those.
• No accidents preferred. Will entertain minor bumper replacement from fender bender if fully documented. Re-spray is OK if documented as being done for cosmetic reasons such as road chips, keyed, etc....
• Location: Prefer West Coast car. CA, OR, WA, NV, AZ are ideal. Former East coast car now living in CA also OK.

rsr91128

Welcome to Rennlist what a great post and thread.

And best of luck with your search, some here will say the search is half the fun, I say BS to that. I was antsy as all hell until I finally bought one, probably rushed in but it was what I was looking for at the time and I love it.

Hold out for the right one and you will love it (and your kids will too).

Keep us updated on your hunt