Detailing part 1: Just how clean is my paintwork?!? – Clay bar the facts you need to
06-28-2009, 03:09 AM
#46
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Although I commend the offer of this SPONSOR, I am "from Missouri" on this product.
I contend that good methodology is far more important than the product used.
I did very well with other products.
But ... I want a convincing demonstration
I contend that good methodology is far more important than the product used.
I did very well with other products.
But ... I want a convincing demonstration
06-28-2009, 03:58 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it just me, or strange that this thread has been running for quite some time and no one has actually received product? I'm the last hold out for belief in the bogey man, but this has taken my desire to save for better products to a position where I doubt the veracity of what is being said. Holler back if you feel me on this one!
06-28-2009, 07:42 AM
#49
Former Vendor
Hi all
As previously referred to, I have sent out 30 kits all over the world on Thursday.
And as promised, here is the follow up on the topic itself, this time it is about what makes an automotive wax a good wax or to put it more clearly the perfect wax...
We are sure that each of you (who is not using their Porsche as a daily driver only) has experienced it already that another car enthusiast claimed that he is using the best polish or wax for his car. And this statement typically is found at least once in every discussion when it comes to the best choice of motor oil, tyres, fuel and - as already menntioned - polishes / waxes. You know it
Some of you then also might have had a good thought about “the best car polish / wax” and came to their own conclusion what to them makes the best wax.
Let us give you our view on that subject:
We - before using Swissvax on an enthusiast level and nowadays also recommending it to other enthusiasts on a business level - have tested several car care product (lines) and have our own view on what makes the best car wax. In our view this can be tested and measured in an objective manner via comparing the quality of key properties which have to be inherent in any good car wax:
These key properties are:
I. Shine, Gloss and Finish
The most obvious criteria which you can already start to judge immediately after you have waxed the car: What does the wax achieve on your automobiles paintwork in terms of shine, intensity and depth of gloss and how does the surface finish look like? Do you get a streak- and layer-free gloss which makes the paint look very homogenous, consistent and deep, and how intense does the colour appear compared to before the application?
Please note that a good wax “works” its way inwards into the paintwork vai different layers of paint / clear coat. You will notice this if you put your car in the direct sun after waxing it: the shine becomes deeper and more lustre with the exposure in the sun. This is especially well visibile on black or red paint.
II. Sheeting and Surface Protection (also referred to as beading)
The second - and for most of you probably not so evident - criteria is what the wax achieves on the top layer of your paintwork. A good wax (always presuming that the surface was prepared correctly and thoroughly, otherwise also the best wax is useless) provides a so called “sheeting effect” which can be impressively experienced the first time you wash the car after you have waxed it: The water will be heavily repelled from the surface and following gravity to the ground, the very few water drops that will sit on the paintwork will no longer look like you are used to see them but as you see it illustrated in the below picture:
It is obvious that this effect does not only apply to water but also to anything else that is getting on the paintwork of your car: Dirt and any contaminations barely can’t adhere to the paintwork providing an excellent protection and reducing significantly the time you require to wash and clean your car for the simple reason that what can't stick to the surface you will not have to remove.
As you can see now, automotive wax is not just about cosmetics but also about significant aspects of protection and also an efficient treatment to help you saving your time.
To sum this up: The wax creates an additional protective layer on your paintwork which seals and isolates it from almost any environmental impact and helps you to save time when washing the automobile.
III. Regenerative properties
A good wax feeds back to the paintwork essential ingredients (oils, solvents, etc.) that the paint had in its formulation when it was applied but then slowly but immediately started to loose as soon as it had hardened out on the car. Any paintwork on any car will inevitably start to what we call “starve” on the short or on the long run. “Starving” is caused by heat, UV radiation and other environmental impacts.
A good wax formulation contains ingredients like essential oils that nourish the paintwork and replace essentials that were lost over the years. This nourishing effect does not only work on the top layer of paint but includes the lower layers as well.
This makes one of the crucial differences between a cheap polish and a high-quality wax: While the cheap polish just chafs off the paintwork surface removing its dead top layer (like a fine grid sandpaper), a good wax will nourish and restore the top layer of paint and also the underlying ones. The cheap polish initially has the same effect as the wax:
the paint looks better and in some cases like new. On the long run things will look different though: The cheap polish just has removed one layer of paint and not provided any care and nutrition to the paintwork while the wax has restored the top layer and nourished the underlying ones and - as explained above - also protects the paint. It is obvious that you can repeat the cheap polish treatment but after a few years you will have no paint left to chaf off and start to see the primer making a re-spray the only option.
Once again, in that case, cheap would have turned expensive...
The below picture shows a 23 year old original paint Porsche 951 in the very sensitive colour guards red. The photo is "as taken" and not edited. The car has 90'000km's on the clock. I would say that this quite impressively demonstrates what "regenerative properties" means:
IV. Durability
Wouldn’t it be perfect if the above key properties could be consistently achieved all the time? Or even “built” into paintwork? Or at least that a wax application would last very long?
Unfortunately the reality looks quite different: most car care products only last a few weeks and have to be repeatedly applied.
It therefore is evident that a good wax has to provide an as-long-as-possible lifespan of the single application. For the mid range waxes of Swissvax this is 3-4 months, for the top of the range products this is up to 12 months.
V. Ease of application
It is easy to understand that criteria I-IV are “must-have-features” for the perfect car wax.
However, the wax in question still isn’t to be considered as a good wax if it only can be applied by and the above described desired results can only be achieved by a specialist.
Ease of application is a factor which is not to be underestimated at all and which many (also some of the top of the range) products that we have tested lack in.
In the end, ease of application ensures that YOU will be able to achieve the desired results with the first try.
Whilst each of the above described factors are not in particular difficult to accomplish in isolation, combining all of them in one wax formulation comes close to trying to square a circle. To give you an example:
Carnauba, the key ingredient responsible for a deep and intense gloss is a rather fragile ingredient, so if you would wax your paintwork with 100% Carnauba only, it would look brilliant for the very moment but the next time you went through a car wash most of the effect would be gone as it would just wash off.
To sum this up, achieving a wax formulation which combines criteria I-V in a consistent combination means having composed a masterpiece. In the case of Swissvax, this has required decades of time and significant ressources and even if the latest wax out of the Swissvax product range - the Crystal Rock - is considered by professionals as the best wax in the world - Swissvax considers it as a milestone only and not the final result - yet.
A few more details about the Crystal Rock:
With 76% by wax volume of pure Brazilian ivory carnauba wax, the Crystal ROck has one of the highest Carnauba content of any wax on the market. In effect, it coats a car's paintwork in a smooth and glossy, yet tough and protective, water-repellent film - and even brings a shine to white and silver. A layer of 'Paul Dalton's Crystal Rock Wax' can last up to 6 to12 months and can be "topped up" with additional layers for even more protection. When exposed to water, 'Paul Dalton's Crystal Rock Wax' swells and closes its pores. This leads to the beading and sheeting of water that is characteristic of a car that has been treated with this high content Carnauba wax. The more layers are applied, the more waterproof it is. After three layers, one of Paul's clients has been known to dry his car with a two mile drive... caring for your car doesn't get any better.
No wonder some of the most valuable automobiles in the world are protected with Swissvax Crystal Rock, e.g. the Bugatti Royale of the National Automobile Museum in Mulhouse, France.
See it yourself
And a few videos from Paul Dalton showing impressively what this wax is about:
Beading - watch the entire video to the end to understand all beading ascpects described above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhyZlgFMaiw
Gloss and finish on a Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4 (please click on the HD icon on the bottom right corner of the player to get the full impression):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29FY...eature=related
And Crystal Rock applied on silver - a very difficult colour to achieve a great shine on, but as you can see, the wax manages to do so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJAgR...eature=related
I hope you enjoyed the read and watching the videos and now know a bit more relevant information about automotive waxes
Cheers
Beni
As previously referred to, I have sent out 30 kits all over the world on Thursday.
And as promised, here is the follow up on the topic itself, this time it is about what makes an automotive wax a good wax or to put it more clearly the perfect wax...
We are sure that each of you (who is not using their Porsche as a daily driver only) has experienced it already that another car enthusiast claimed that he is using the best polish or wax for his car. And this statement typically is found at least once in every discussion when it comes to the best choice of motor oil, tyres, fuel and - as already menntioned - polishes / waxes. You know it
Some of you then also might have had a good thought about “the best car polish / wax” and came to their own conclusion what to them makes the best wax.
Let us give you our view on that subject:
We - before using Swissvax on an enthusiast level and nowadays also recommending it to other enthusiasts on a business level - have tested several car care product (lines) and have our own view on what makes the best car wax. In our view this can be tested and measured in an objective manner via comparing the quality of key properties which have to be inherent in any good car wax:
These key properties are:
I. Shine, Gloss and Finish
The most obvious criteria which you can already start to judge immediately after you have waxed the car: What does the wax achieve on your automobiles paintwork in terms of shine, intensity and depth of gloss and how does the surface finish look like? Do you get a streak- and layer-free gloss which makes the paint look very homogenous, consistent and deep, and how intense does the colour appear compared to before the application?
Please note that a good wax “works” its way inwards into the paintwork vai different layers of paint / clear coat. You will notice this if you put your car in the direct sun after waxing it: the shine becomes deeper and more lustre with the exposure in the sun. This is especially well visibile on black or red paint.
II. Sheeting and Surface Protection (also referred to as beading)
The second - and for most of you probably not so evident - criteria is what the wax achieves on the top layer of your paintwork. A good wax (always presuming that the surface was prepared correctly and thoroughly, otherwise also the best wax is useless) provides a so called “sheeting effect” which can be impressively experienced the first time you wash the car after you have waxed it: The water will be heavily repelled from the surface and following gravity to the ground, the very few water drops that will sit on the paintwork will no longer look like you are used to see them but as you see it illustrated in the below picture:
It is obvious that this effect does not only apply to water but also to anything else that is getting on the paintwork of your car: Dirt and any contaminations barely can’t adhere to the paintwork providing an excellent protection and reducing significantly the time you require to wash and clean your car for the simple reason that what can't stick to the surface you will not have to remove.
As you can see now, automotive wax is not just about cosmetics but also about significant aspects of protection and also an efficient treatment to help you saving your time.
To sum this up: The wax creates an additional protective layer on your paintwork which seals and isolates it from almost any environmental impact and helps you to save time when washing the automobile.
III. Regenerative properties
A good wax feeds back to the paintwork essential ingredients (oils, solvents, etc.) that the paint had in its formulation when it was applied but then slowly but immediately started to loose as soon as it had hardened out on the car. Any paintwork on any car will inevitably start to what we call “starve” on the short or on the long run. “Starving” is caused by heat, UV radiation and other environmental impacts.
A good wax formulation contains ingredients like essential oils that nourish the paintwork and replace essentials that were lost over the years. This nourishing effect does not only work on the top layer of paint but includes the lower layers as well.
This makes one of the crucial differences between a cheap polish and a high-quality wax: While the cheap polish just chafs off the paintwork surface removing its dead top layer (like a fine grid sandpaper), a good wax will nourish and restore the top layer of paint and also the underlying ones. The cheap polish initially has the same effect as the wax:
the paint looks better and in some cases like new. On the long run things will look different though: The cheap polish just has removed one layer of paint and not provided any care and nutrition to the paintwork while the wax has restored the top layer and nourished the underlying ones and - as explained above - also protects the paint. It is obvious that you can repeat the cheap polish treatment but after a few years you will have no paint left to chaf off and start to see the primer making a re-spray the only option.
Once again, in that case, cheap would have turned expensive...
The below picture shows a 23 year old original paint Porsche 951 in the very sensitive colour guards red. The photo is "as taken" and not edited. The car has 90'000km's on the clock. I would say that this quite impressively demonstrates what "regenerative properties" means:
IV. Durability
Wouldn’t it be perfect if the above key properties could be consistently achieved all the time? Or even “built” into paintwork? Or at least that a wax application would last very long?
Unfortunately the reality looks quite different: most car care products only last a few weeks and have to be repeatedly applied.
It therefore is evident that a good wax has to provide an as-long-as-possible lifespan of the single application. For the mid range waxes of Swissvax this is 3-4 months, for the top of the range products this is up to 12 months.
V. Ease of application
It is easy to understand that criteria I-IV are “must-have-features” for the perfect car wax.
However, the wax in question still isn’t to be considered as a good wax if it only can be applied by and the above described desired results can only be achieved by a specialist.
Ease of application is a factor which is not to be underestimated at all and which many (also some of the top of the range) products that we have tested lack in.
In the end, ease of application ensures that YOU will be able to achieve the desired results with the first try.
Whilst each of the above described factors are not in particular difficult to accomplish in isolation, combining all of them in one wax formulation comes close to trying to square a circle. To give you an example:
Carnauba, the key ingredient responsible for a deep and intense gloss is a rather fragile ingredient, so if you would wax your paintwork with 100% Carnauba only, it would look brilliant for the very moment but the next time you went through a car wash most of the effect would be gone as it would just wash off.
To sum this up, achieving a wax formulation which combines criteria I-V in a consistent combination means having composed a masterpiece. In the case of Swissvax, this has required decades of time and significant ressources and even if the latest wax out of the Swissvax product range - the Crystal Rock - is considered by professionals as the best wax in the world - Swissvax considers it as a milestone only and not the final result - yet.
A few more details about the Crystal Rock:
With 76% by wax volume of pure Brazilian ivory carnauba wax, the Crystal ROck has one of the highest Carnauba content of any wax on the market. In effect, it coats a car's paintwork in a smooth and glossy, yet tough and protective, water-repellent film - and even brings a shine to white and silver. A layer of 'Paul Dalton's Crystal Rock Wax' can last up to 6 to12 months and can be "topped up" with additional layers for even more protection. When exposed to water, 'Paul Dalton's Crystal Rock Wax' swells and closes its pores. This leads to the beading and sheeting of water that is characteristic of a car that has been treated with this high content Carnauba wax. The more layers are applied, the more waterproof it is. After three layers, one of Paul's clients has been known to dry his car with a two mile drive... caring for your car doesn't get any better.
No wonder some of the most valuable automobiles in the world are protected with Swissvax Crystal Rock, e.g. the Bugatti Royale of the National Automobile Museum in Mulhouse, France.
See it yourself
And a few videos from Paul Dalton showing impressively what this wax is about:
Beading - watch the entire video to the end to understand all beading ascpects described above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhyZlgFMaiw
Gloss and finish on a Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4 (please click on the HD icon on the bottom right corner of the player to get the full impression):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29FY...eature=related
And Crystal Rock applied on silver - a very difficult colour to achieve a great shine on, but as you can see, the wax manages to do so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJAgR...eature=related
I hope you enjoyed the read and watching the videos and now know a bit more relevant information about automotive waxes
Cheers
Beni
06-28-2009, 01:42 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys but I feel like I just wasted time reading what appeared as an interesting thread on proper detailing and ended up with an advertisement for a wax that costs over a grand.
06-28-2009, 05:39 PM
#51
Former Vendor
bluejam, my sincere apologies for wasting your valuable time!
I hope you noticed the slight irony in the above statement:
No one is forced to buy anything! Especially not a tub of Crystal Rock which is only something for the very very sophisticated owner who has already seen and tested everything...
All of what we have stated in terms of technical or general information about the topic is very valuable and interesting knowledge useful for any Porsche owner to best take care of his automobile, completely regardless of what product he uses. Including my last post down to the end of paragraph V.
Anyway, I hope the majority of you guys appreciate this thread, otherwise I will invest my time in other directions
I have written the above writeup about the "best wax" on a Sunday morning (and I enjoyed doing it), so I hope that you can see that I have done this out of personal motivation and my passion for cars and because I wanted to share some of my good knowledge in that area...the business aspect came very second...
However, have a great day everybody.
Cheers
Beni
I hope you noticed the slight irony in the above statement:
No one is forced to buy anything! Especially not a tub of Crystal Rock which is only something for the very very sophisticated owner who has already seen and tested everything...
All of what we have stated in terms of technical or general information about the topic is very valuable and interesting knowledge useful for any Porsche owner to best take care of his automobile, completely regardless of what product he uses. Including my last post down to the end of paragraph V.
Anyway, I hope the majority of you guys appreciate this thread, otherwise I will invest my time in other directions
I have written the above writeup about the "best wax" on a Sunday morning (and I enjoyed doing it), so I hope that you can see that I have done this out of personal motivation and my passion for cars and because I wanted to share some of my good knowledge in that area...the business aspect came very second...
However, have a great day everybody.
Cheers
Beni
06-29-2009, 03:33 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all! Beni, I just received your samples in the mail. Thanks. I'll post my humble impressions here after I try it out. For those who haven't yet, it contained a packet of cleaner fluid and a small thimble of Saphir Wax. Stay tuned.
Regards
Regards
07-04-2009, 05:18 PM
#55
Former Vendor
Hi all
Apologies for leaving this un-answered for a few days.
DocTock 993: The sample is sufficient to do one panel, i.e: The rear wing or the front wing. The wax is easily sufficient (I could do half a 911 with that portion, seriously!), the Cleaner Fluid you have to use rather sparingly as the towel absorbs quite a lot.
Based on the feedback for the Tester Kits we have got, it seems that the process is not self-explanatory enough without pictures.
I therefore have done a quick guide for you guys this afternoon, just follow it step-by-step and you will get a good result with the first try:
I. Wash
Wash the test surface using a towel or microfibre cloth (no sponge, please!):
Always use copious amounts of water:
Then dry the surface.
II. Cleaner Fluid Paintwork Pre-treatment
Take a clean and dry cotton towel and the Cleaner Fluid that was supplied:
Open the sachet and apply the Cleaner Fluid on one spot (do not spread it too much on the towel as otherwise you will not have enough material), you are best off using a small towel and folding it a few times so you have a small pad as can be seen below:
Then rub the towel over the surface doing longitundinal movements to work the Cleaner Fluid into the surface:
let stand for 10 minutes:
then buff the excess Cleaner Fluid completely off. You should now hear a "healthy squeek" when you run the towel over the surface (also notice the difference in gloss-intensity before and after):
III. Wax application
Open the small tub of Saphir:
Extract a small amount of wax using your fingertips:
take the portion from your fingertip and place it in your palm:
Rub your palms against each other to warm the wax up - you can feel how the wax becomes a lot more liquid when it warms up allowing you to coat the paintwork surface with a very thin but consistent layer:
then apply the wax using both hands. Run over the paintwork surface:
let stand for 10 minutes. The buff off using another towel:
and here you go - a glossy perfect finish with excellent beading characteristics:
Cheers
Beni
Apologies for leaving this un-answered for a few days.
DocTock 993: The sample is sufficient to do one panel, i.e: The rear wing or the front wing. The wax is easily sufficient (I could do half a 911 with that portion, seriously!), the Cleaner Fluid you have to use rather sparingly as the towel absorbs quite a lot.
Based on the feedback for the Tester Kits we have got, it seems that the process is not self-explanatory enough without pictures.
I therefore have done a quick guide for you guys this afternoon, just follow it step-by-step and you will get a good result with the first try:
I. Wash
Wash the test surface using a towel or microfibre cloth (no sponge, please!):
Always use copious amounts of water:
Then dry the surface.
II. Cleaner Fluid Paintwork Pre-treatment
Take a clean and dry cotton towel and the Cleaner Fluid that was supplied:
Open the sachet and apply the Cleaner Fluid on one spot (do not spread it too much on the towel as otherwise you will not have enough material), you are best off using a small towel and folding it a few times so you have a small pad as can be seen below:
Then rub the towel over the surface doing longitundinal movements to work the Cleaner Fluid into the surface:
let stand for 10 minutes:
then buff the excess Cleaner Fluid completely off. You should now hear a "healthy squeek" when you run the towel over the surface (also notice the difference in gloss-intensity before and after):
III. Wax application
Open the small tub of Saphir:
Extract a small amount of wax using your fingertips:
take the portion from your fingertip and place it in your palm:
Rub your palms against each other to warm the wax up - you can feel how the wax becomes a lot more liquid when it warms up allowing you to coat the paintwork surface with a very thin but consistent layer:
then apply the wax using both hands. Run over the paintwork surface:
let stand for 10 minutes. The buff off using another towel:
and here you go - a glossy perfect finish with excellent beading characteristics:
Cheers
Beni
07-04-2009, 11:20 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
This looks like an awesome product but for simplicity and pricepoint sake, I really like Zaino. Easy on, easy off, and relatively cheap.
Good luck everyone with this "new" product. To me, most waxes at the high end are all pretty darn good, regardless of which you use. They all have their plus and minuses.
Good luck everyone with this "new" product. To me, most waxes at the high end are all pretty darn good, regardless of which you use. They all have their plus and minuses.
08-30-2010, 08:05 AM
#58
1st Gear
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as a professional car detailer clay bar detailing is defiantly a time consuming process however it is one process that i feel is very necessary. as specially if you leave your car outside to catch all the unwanted contaminants such as sap. you must also make sure you use a clay bar the correct way otherwise you will be wishing you never heard of a clay bar.
08-30-2010, 11:18 AM
#60
This seems like an advertisement. There are many good products out there and very importantly, it's how they are used. Strek
Compounding your paint without having a little hands on experience, can do serious damage, however good the explanation of methods involved are.
Sorry. I'm feeling a little cynical today. Strek
StrekStrek
Strek
Compounding your paint without having a little hands on experience, can do serious damage, however good the explanation of methods involved are.
Sorry. I'm feeling a little cynical today. Strek
StrekStrek
Strek