herman maire

Just wondering if any of you have owned/own a e46 M3?

I hate to say it but for some reason I am not totally happy/impressed with my 95 993 and I have started looking at maybe a E46 M3.... I have never driven one but will try to in the next few months when I get home and get some time.

I have a few nice mods on my car

1-Regeared trans +GT3 cup car LSD diff
2-Wevo +RS mounts
3-Gemballa springs, stock shocks
4-RS manual steering rack
ect...

Any thoughts on why this car is not blowing me away.... Its the newest 911 I have driven/owned . My 73 911 is a blast to drive and thats with a 2.4l motor.

Does a short shifter help much with the 993?

Any opinions appreciated?

jdistefa

Get a decent suspension setup (PSS9/10 or JIC), RS alignment & corner balance, and pony up for an RS/Weltmeister/Rothsport short shifter option. Do you have a lightweight flywheel? Chip? What tires are you running? Sounds like you've done everything else .

I've driven both the E46 and E36 cars. I find the E46 a little numb - IMO it's a heavy car with a lot of nanny features and a brilliant motor. To begin to make it an effective weapon, you need to drop some weight, swap out the sh*tty brakes for Stoptechs, and do the usual coilover suspension stuff.

IMO, keep your 993 and develop it more.

justin993

Your 993 is a lot heavier than your 73 with 2.4, may take away some of the fun factor.
What is the purpose of the car 993/M3? I am assuming they are to serve the same needs.

Cactus

I would love to drive a regeared car to see the difference.

herman maire

Thanks guys.

I did just install a RS flywheel and clutch this summer so the car shifts VERY fast . The cars purpose is mainly a nice daily driver that can be taken to the track for a little fun until I get my 72 911 with the Vram motor project done but that is just taken FOREVER.

I tried to stay pretty conservative with the suspension only changing springs because the city streets are just TERRIBLE but even with this set up a drive to the city leaves me a nervous wreck.... seriously. The car hits VERY hard on big bumps and hits the bump stops pretty hard .

I also had the RS alignment done just after I installed the springs but even that does not feel that great... I plan to get it done again at the dealership when I get home. Mainly the car just does not feel very planted. I cant see shocks being the problem for this unplanted feel. Tires are Michelin .

Another thing, even the RS manual steering rack that I went through a ton of trouble to fit still does not give the same feel as a torsion bar car that I was hopping for, another surprise.

Just a comparison... my 73 makes you wanna trail brake into a corner with the tail hanging out then power slide on exit because you feel exactly what the car is doing and that is with stock 73 suspension, shocks , swaybars ect.... The 993 feels good but just not the same and everything is new and moded.

So you think the short shifter and new suspension is the key?? I really hope so because I have spent quite a lot in mods already and still not really happy.

I would be happy to do a few mods to the M3 to make it a better car but no tranny or big engine mods. Are the stock gears in the M3 nicely staked or is it like the 993?

Matt,
How's your new 993 cleaning up? How would you compare your M coupe to the 993?

Thanks again

bart1

Wow, sounds like you have an incredible car. Suspension may be the answer, or removing weight. Seems like adding just some Bilstein HDs or going coilovers would be a logical step. Just a guess, but I think an E46 is going to give you more of what you don't like.

AM993

+1 for new shocks. My car had similar symptoms with its stock shocks, to the extent that my teeth almost fell off at every joint on the road and the car felt very unsafe in turns (very wobbly, almost felt like it was going to take off...). With the Bilstein HD's, the ride is much more compliant (much smoother than before, not harsh at all) and the car feels glued to the ground.

nota_troll

Not impressed with a 993? Well I went from a 993 to an E46 M3. The M3 was faster and more comfortable (not by much-primarily the A/C) than the 993. Any Porsche 911 is far superior than an M car for tactile feel. After you drive an M3 and return to the 993 the M3 will feel like a pillow on wheels especially with the upgrades you have completed.

I tracked my M3 over a dozen times in stock trim. Brakes fade and is not as responsive as a Porsche. Having said this the motor of the M3 is worth the price of admission. It's one of the best IMO.

Oh! After the M3 I returned to a 993 because I sorely missed the feel and presence of the Porsche then sold for an M5 for the growing family but looking for another 993, preferably my first one.

fast_freddy

Not planted? Sounds like a suspension and alignment issue. Having the alignment dialed in is such a critical thing on these cars. About a month ago I did a hill climb and unwittingly knocked the front right out of alignment. Did an Auto-X the following weekend and was one second slower than people I'm usually one second faster than. Got the car aligned, did an Auto-X this past weekend and all was right in the world again as I was back to one second faster than the people who were beating me the last time. En route to the Auto-X I had the car up to 150mph on the highway and it was rock solid planted. This was at 6:00AM with no cars and importantly no Staties on the highway (For you safety ****'s) Our Staties are only out from 7:00AM til 12:00AM.

jdistefa

Sounds like your shocks are toast .

Au contraire my friend.

You can trail brake/throtte the 993 to create some early rotation, but keep in mind the rear suspension is light years ahead of a '73, and you have considerably more weight involved.

An RS 2-piece shifter is around $125 from Sunset, and a Weltmeister kit is $250, so these are relatively inexpensive changes that make a nice difference (and you can install them yourself).

As per Arnaud's comments, I think that the suspension will make a big difference for you .

993 is coming along, thx. The M coupe is fairly modified and is very easy to drive quickly. I bought it because I always loved the quirky shape and I wanted some seat time in a front-engined car. However, it lacks the ultimate feel, effort, involvement - and skill - required to drive a 993 fast, so you know which one is my favorite .

dcdude

I had an E46 325i 5 speed and loved it. They used to build the best sedans in the world, but I never compared it to my 993.

Unless you are captivated by the 993s appearance, there are loads of choices that do almost everything else better, likely for less money. But the "almost," is that look, and well, for me that's "the thing" that lets me easily forsake all others.

My suspicion is that after lots of expensive tweaks you still won't like your 993. Keep it as-is and add a used STi...

Stealth 993

I'm confused, what do you want your 993 to do that it is not doing?

The E46 M3 is a awesome car! It was on my short list when I need a new DD & I picked the 95 C4 instead. The M3 does have more power, & IMHO a much nicer engine. It is however much heavier & feels it. While the steering is great it's not on par with a stock 993. The car also doesn't have the feedback, in throttle, brakes or steering feel. The brakes just suck at anything other then street driving.

Since you have dumped $$ into your car, why not just finish it, what tires are you running? I've noticed 993's are very touchy when it comes to tires. Also get a more agressive suspension, some RS spindles & tie rods, then Pss10,JIC, or KW coil overs. You can also get the adjustable rear arms.

For the engine, do a 3.8, or get a SC setup. It should be stupid fast after all that.

Or maybe the 993 just isn't for you, & you just don't get it like most of us?

fixedgame

I never understand why someone would upgrades the springs and keeps the stock shocks on a 13 yr old car. I think a new set of bilsteins HDs is the answer here.

face-ache

Orig shocks would have been toast a long time ago. definately shocks.

matt777

Agree. I thought that the 325I with more power would have been an awesome car (an M3). The only thing I disliked was that the steering was too sensitive at higher speeds. The 993 is still a hell of a bang for the buck though.