Just got deeply scr*wed....
06-12-2008, 09:44 PM
#93
I wouldn't marry a girl without seeing her first, and I wouldn't buy a car without seeing it first for this very reason. There is an expression that is as old as time itself: caveat emptor: Let the buyer beware.
Sorry that the buyer, who appears to be a great guy, got screwed.
Sorry that the buyer, who appears to be a great guy, got screwed.
06-12-2008, 09:47 PM
#94
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I never dealt with Dan Jacobs but my experience with shops like his is that their really into mechanical stuff and all the rest is superficial. The shop who did my PPI did the absolute same thing on my RSA and once I got home, I had about a dozen things to fix that wasn't noticed. Funny thing is I just sold my RSA and the new owner was looking for a 100% track toy. The PPI covered everything but was mainly focused on mechanical stuff, i.e. motor, tranny, suspension, brakes, bushings.....
Matt, sorry for the car but I'm sure you'll make something great out of it. Just make it a more challenging project.
Matt, sorry for the car but I'm sure you'll make something great out of it. Just make it a more challenging project.
06-12-2008, 09:51 PM
#95
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06-12-2008, 09:59 PM
#96
Seared
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06-12-2008, 10:03 PM
#99
Sorry Matt for contributing to the degradation of your post...but the title did have the words "deeply" and "screwed".
Back to topic..you're welcome to stay at my place in CT if you need to bring that beast up to Jacobs Matt.
Bart
06-12-2008, 10:04 PM
#100
Seared
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06-12-2008, 10:09 PM
#101
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CWay, you make a good point. One of the mechanics I know, that does great work incidentally, could not care less about cosmetics. And so when I had an inspection done on my 3.2, I trusted myself as to the aesthetic condition, and him as to mechanicals. It worked out, because I took full responsability for stuff I could verify myself.
That said, this sounds like an exceptionally rough car, a condition that even a cursory inspection should have revealed and documented. While mechanical issues can be pricey, the same is equally true for paint, bodywork and interior. Any responsible Porsche technician knows that, and would cover it in a PPI.
Final observation: if I was selling a rough car to a buyer unseen, I would be sure to disclose (with recent detailed pictures and reasonable detail) any significant faults. DE car does not mean a cosmetic wreck, but if that's what I was selling, I'd be sure to describe it clearly as such. Sounds like that omission in this case was lucrative for one at the expense of the other.
Ugh.
That said, this sounds like an exceptionally rough car, a condition that even a cursory inspection should have revealed and documented. While mechanical issues can be pricey, the same is equally true for paint, bodywork and interior. Any responsible Porsche technician knows that, and would cover it in a PPI.
Final observation: if I was selling a rough car to a buyer unseen, I would be sure to disclose (with recent detailed pictures and reasonable detail) any significant faults. DE car does not mean a cosmetic wreck, but if that's what I was selling, I'd be sure to describe it clearly as such. Sounds like that omission in this case was lucrative for one at the expense of the other.
Ugh.
Last edited by Matt Lane; 06-12-2008 at 10:13 PM. Reason: sp
06-12-2008, 10:11 PM
#102
Wallflower
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I've been following this throughout the day, very interested in the outcome. Putting my car on the market once she's out of the shop and this sort of thing really does bother me. I try to be as open and honest about everything w/ the car as I can... possibly even to a fault, but I would rather someone think it's better than I made it out than worse.
Not being privy to all the conversations, etc., I'm not sure I can offer up much else in terms of advice. I do feel for you though. Hang in there, fix her up and drive the hell out of it.
By the way... has anyone really been successful getting a PPI provider to pay up for something they missed? I've seen it suggested in numerous threads, but I am curious if anyone's actually gotten it successfully.
Not being privy to all the conversations, etc., I'm not sure I can offer up much else in terms of advice. I do feel for you though. Hang in there, fix her up and drive the hell out of it.
By the way... has anyone really been successful getting a PPI provider to pay up for something they missed? I've seen it suggested in numerous threads, but I am curious if anyone's actually gotten it successfully.
06-12-2008, 10:29 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
It is not going to work out. I am really sorry about that.
Some months ago Matt asked me if my car was available. It was. It is a nicely set up DE-dedicated 993 with a newly rebuilt motor. That is how, I thought, I described it and what, I thought, Matt wanted. He bought it and just recently picked it up.
It was not at all what Matt wanted. This is a dirty, chipped, scratched car with good suspension and drivetrain that is fast and dependable. He wants, I now know, something far more pristine.
I tried to meet him when he picked the car up because I was expecting him to be pleased with it and I wanted to see him off. I am sorry. His reaction was a major surprise to both of us. But the money is spent and there is nothing I can do about it.
I am not going to get into a pissing match about this. Matt, I wish I had sold the car to anyone else. I know you are deeply disappointed.
Some months ago Matt asked me if my car was available. It was. It is a nicely set up DE-dedicated 993 with a newly rebuilt motor. That is how, I thought, I described it and what, I thought, Matt wanted. He bought it and just recently picked it up.
It was not at all what Matt wanted. This is a dirty, chipped, scratched car with good suspension and drivetrain that is fast and dependable. He wants, I now know, something far more pristine.
I tried to meet him when he picked the car up because I was expecting him to be pleased with it and I wanted to see him off. I am sorry. His reaction was a major surprise to both of us. But the money is spent and there is nothing I can do about it.
I am not going to get into a pissing match about this. Matt, I wish I had sold the car to anyone else. I know you are deeply disappointed.
Thx for all the comments, both supportive and constructively critical. Apologies for the delayed follow up post, but I've been working +++ since returning home. God knows I'm going to have to work quite a bit more in order to fix this car to a level reasonable to track it without a bag over my head. It is interesting to me that Larry posted here since he has not replied in substance to any of my emails.
Yes, there was clearly in retrospect a huge disconnect. However, I was lulled into a false sense of security by virtue of the fact that the PO was a Rennlister, the description of the car, the pictures, and Dan Jacob's involvement re. the motor rebuild and mechanical maintenance of the car. In short, I think a Porsche should be respected and cared for and the PO, well....
Yes, I made a big mistake not going to see the car first - or getting a trustworthy Rennlister to do so for me. I am profoundly embarassed and I feel like an idiot admitting this to everyone here. However, I've had the good fortune to buy several cars online, sight unseen, including from a Rennlister. I would never have gotten into this had I seen the car, and it's an expensive lesson. I did have a PPI done by Dan Jacobs, and I spoke to Larry (PO) several times. Anyway, mea culpa.
I took my absolutely beloved Polar Silver 993 off to get a PPI done today, and barring some surprising finding (which I can't imagine), it will be sold to a very happy guy. It's a shame to have to part with this car, but that's how it goes - and as someone posted, nobody got hurt.
I had a sh*tty sleep last night and briefly thought about just dumping the current car at a 5 figure loss, selling all of my Porsche spares and carrying on with life.... that moment seems to have passed for now.
The facts (bear with me, but I want to give you the flavour of the car):
Good:
-Great motor, RS flywheel & clutch (full rebuild 4k ago)
-Cross coilovers
-DAS rollbar
-RS splitters & tail
-No apparent tub damage
-Atiwe s/w
-Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in reasonable condition
-Gt3 seats with B/K brackets in good condition (surprisingly)
Not so good:
-Tired paint, not surprising or unexpected given the age and use of the car
-Dings and superficial scratches on basically every panel - I stopped counting
-Rear decklid mismatch (? car got bumped at some time vs. poor installation - I will have to take it apart to figure out)
-The Recaro seat rails were installed by a retarded goat. The passenger side was broken, both lower rails had rust on them - both went promptly into the garbage.
Abysmal:
-The wheels are not the ones pictured in my correspondence with the PO. Pics are posted earlier on this thread. The wheels on the car are scratched, chipped, battered track wheels with no center caps. I can't wait to spin them to see if they're round. I would say they're worth $500 at best.
-Scratches to metal on the driver's door. Paint chips to metal and rust bubbles on the cowl.
-The PO told me that the car had not been in an accident, yet this is clear evidence of respray on the driver's door.
-Twisted front hood - literally the driver's side support beam is so twisted that the hood will not seal on that side, and it was painted that way (Larry told me it had been replaced after a kid's bike fell on it). It is visible to the naked eye of an 80 year old with macular degeneration - in short, unmissable if you're within 20 feet of the car. There is superficial corrosion everywhere in the trunk, including a puddle of water next to the gas tank (significant corrosion here) indicating that this is not a new (or presumably unrecognized) problem.
-All external seals (bumper, cowl, door handles, window frames, headlight lenses, sunroof) are dry, cracked, pieces missing (cowl). All will need replacement. I think the car was stored in a convection oven.
-I asked Dan to instal some EVO uprights I had, and found at the time that I also needed to replace the battery, front rotors, front bearings, one ball joint prior to driving the car. The rear rotors are just above spec - will need to be replaced after one track day.
-Front right wheel liner is loose, rubber seal missing, flaps against the tire
-Left rocker panel loose, tons of gravel and beaded rubber jammed up underneath the last 6" of trailing edge. I'm scared to see what's underneath the wheel liners, rocker panels, and floorpan when I jack the car and I tear everything off next week.
-The interior was an absolute embarassment. It had never seen a vacuum cleaner, there was gravel and junk everywhere (Larry - I found your dentist's appointment card underneath the passenger seat, shall I mail it to you?). I tore everything out last night - the soundproofing and carpet was wet and there was mold and superficial rust on the floor pans. There was actually a puddle in the right rear seat well. UV damage to much of the interior rubber - much like the outer seals. Other than hardware, nothing is recoverable from the interior. Even the seat belt anchors are corroded...
Summary:
Basically this is a very tired, unloved base car with a good motor and some trick parts bolted to it. I've seen 150k cars that look far better inside and out, and this one has a claimed 79k on it. I'm not going to post all the emails that have transpired between myself and Larry (I didn't swear - but should have), but in short Larry's response has been to shrug his shoulders and say "it's a DE car". My position is that he really misrepresented the condition of the car. Everyone I know takes care of their track cars, and to be sold this car by a Rennlister is a wake up call. I would say conservatively that I overpaid by $8k and that's a hard lesson to swallow. As I said very pointedly to Larry via email, he should be ashamed of himself.
At least I'll be able to sleep at night.
Yes, there was clearly in retrospect a huge disconnect. However, I was lulled into a false sense of security by virtue of the fact that the PO was a Rennlister, the description of the car, the pictures, and Dan Jacob's involvement re. the motor rebuild and mechanical maintenance of the car. In short, I think a Porsche should be respected and cared for and the PO, well....
Yes, I made a big mistake not going to see the car first - or getting a trustworthy Rennlister to do so for me. I am profoundly embarassed and I feel like an idiot admitting this to everyone here. However, I've had the good fortune to buy several cars online, sight unseen, including from a Rennlister. I would never have gotten into this had I seen the car, and it's an expensive lesson. I did have a PPI done by Dan Jacobs, and I spoke to Larry (PO) several times. Anyway, mea culpa.
I took my absolutely beloved Polar Silver 993 off to get a PPI done today, and barring some surprising finding (which I can't imagine), it will be sold to a very happy guy. It's a shame to have to part with this car, but that's how it goes - and as someone posted, nobody got hurt.
I had a sh*tty sleep last night and briefly thought about just dumping the current car at a 5 figure loss, selling all of my Porsche spares and carrying on with life.... that moment seems to have passed for now.
The facts (bear with me, but I want to give you the flavour of the car):
Good:
-Great motor, RS flywheel & clutch (full rebuild 4k ago)
-Cross coilovers
-DAS rollbar
-RS splitters & tail
-No apparent tub damage
-Atiwe s/w
-Michelin Pilot Sport Cups in reasonable condition
-Gt3 seats with B/K brackets in good condition (surprisingly)
Not so good:
-Tired paint, not surprising or unexpected given the age and use of the car
-Dings and superficial scratches on basically every panel - I stopped counting
-Rear decklid mismatch (? car got bumped at some time vs. poor installation - I will have to take it apart to figure out)
-The Recaro seat rails were installed by a retarded goat. The passenger side was broken, both lower rails had rust on them - both went promptly into the garbage.
Abysmal:
-The wheels are not the ones pictured in my correspondence with the PO. Pics are posted earlier on this thread. The wheels on the car are scratched, chipped, battered track wheels with no center caps. I can't wait to spin them to see if they're round. I would say they're worth $500 at best.
-Scratches to metal on the driver's door. Paint chips to metal and rust bubbles on the cowl.
-The PO told me that the car had not been in an accident, yet this is clear evidence of respray on the driver's door.
-Twisted front hood - literally the driver's side support beam is so twisted that the hood will not seal on that side, and it was painted that way (Larry told me it had been replaced after a kid's bike fell on it). It is visible to the naked eye of an 80 year old with macular degeneration - in short, unmissable if you're within 20 feet of the car. There is superficial corrosion everywhere in the trunk, including a puddle of water next to the gas tank (significant corrosion here) indicating that this is not a new (or presumably unrecognized) problem.
-All external seals (bumper, cowl, door handles, window frames, headlight lenses, sunroof) are dry, cracked, pieces missing (cowl). All will need replacement. I think the car was stored in a convection oven.
-I asked Dan to instal some EVO uprights I had, and found at the time that I also needed to replace the battery, front rotors, front bearings, one ball joint prior to driving the car. The rear rotors are just above spec - will need to be replaced after one track day.
-Front right wheel liner is loose, rubber seal missing, flaps against the tire
-Left rocker panel loose, tons of gravel and beaded rubber jammed up underneath the last 6" of trailing edge. I'm scared to see what's underneath the wheel liners, rocker panels, and floorpan when I jack the car and I tear everything off next week.
-The interior was an absolute embarassment. It had never seen a vacuum cleaner, there was gravel and junk everywhere (Larry - I found your dentist's appointment card underneath the passenger seat, shall I mail it to you?). I tore everything out last night - the soundproofing and carpet was wet and there was mold and superficial rust on the floor pans. There was actually a puddle in the right rear seat well. UV damage to much of the interior rubber - much like the outer seals. Other than hardware, nothing is recoverable from the interior. Even the seat belt anchors are corroded...
Summary:
Basically this is a very tired, unloved base car with a good motor and some trick parts bolted to it. I've seen 150k cars that look far better inside and out, and this one has a claimed 79k on it. I'm not going to post all the emails that have transpired between myself and Larry (I didn't swear - but should have), but in short Larry's response has been to shrug his shoulders and say "it's a DE car". My position is that he really misrepresented the condition of the car. Everyone I know takes care of their track cars, and to be sold this car by a Rennlister is a wake up call. I would say conservatively that I overpaid by $8k and that's a hard lesson to swallow. As I said very pointedly to Larry via email, he should be ashamed of himself.
At least I'll be able to sleep at night.
Matt, if none (or few) of the items you discussed were on the PPI (wet carpet, twisted hood, door re-spray, etc.), then I'd say you really need to talk to Dan and find out why these issues were not uncovered. Also, if the wheels that were advertised and presented in correspondence were different than what was delivered, I'd be seriously pissed off. I would be interested in reading what transpired between you and Lawrence and how the car was described. That may be quite revealing.
If I bought a “DE-dedicated” car, I would be cognizant that the car might very well be rough around the edges. Being the generally thorough bastard that I am, I would ask the seller to point out every single issue that a concerned buyer would want to know. (When I buy something on Ebay, I try to ask questions such as: Is this authentic? Are there any scratches, blemishes, etc. that a discerning buyer would want to know about? Are there any issues that I should be aware of?) However, stating that it is a “DE-dedicated 993”, IMHO, does not automatically give a seller a pass to not be, dare I use the word, fairly honest, especially as it pertains to patently obvious issues such as paint and panel alignment, and especially with a Rennlister.
Matt, I hate to say this, but perhaps you really should have done a better job by asking more questions. (Maybe you did.) If you did ask all of the right questions, I think you did your due diligence as evidenced by the presence of the PPI. Certainly it would have been a better idea to take the car to a shop that did not have a relationship with the seller. Dan Jacobs is a phenomenal mechanic and has one of the best reputations out there, but, assuming that Dan personally did the PPI, which I would find hard to believe, people are people and prone to biases and subjectivity, however unintentioned. There is a reason researchers conduct double-blind studies. If Dan's shop missed all of those items or did not tell you, I would have a discussion with Dan.
Lawrence, to be fair, I'm not sure what transpired between you and Matt, but, if the issue with the wheels is true, I would think he would have a legitimate problem on that matter, at the very least. It sounds like the car may have been misrepresented, although, to be fair, no one knows what you two discussed. Billing the car as a “DE-dedicated 993” does not, IMHO, relieve you of the responsibility of discussing material issues such as the hood, the door re-spray, the broken seat rail, etc. that Matt assumed, rightly or wrongly, would be revealed in the PPI, if, in fact, you did not mention it. Although the dirty interior is a minor issue, I think Matt brings it up to show a perceived lack of care. I would never, ever sell a car that was dirty, partly because I want the car to be sold in the best light and partly because I want the new buyer to have a clean car. I am not a fastidious concours guy, but there’s a matter of pride in the cars I am selling.
”This is a dirty, chipped, scratched car with good suspension and drivetrain that is fast and dependable.” Did you specifically describe the 993 to Matt like this? If you did, this should have been fair warning of the type of car to expect.
Tricky situation. I think it would be fair to say that Matt thought a fellow Rennlister would take care of him. Perhaps more will be uncovered, but, at this point, Lawrence, I think you owe Matt more than an apology. I am willing to retract this statement if documentation reveals another scenario.
This whole situation brings into light the Rennlist trust that I posted about a few days ago. (https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...94&postcount=7) When I sell stuff here, I want my buyers to be happy, for my reputation on Rennlist, despite my often juvenile and occasionally petulant antics, is somewhat important to me.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/393856-993-club-race-track-car.html
I'll be selling mine. 80K miles, iris blue, brand new (4K miles) top end by Dan Jacobs, LWFW, chip, RS fan pulley, RS bodywork, GT3 seats, powdercoated DAS bar, JIC/Cross, brake ducts, Litronics, 18" twists with MPSCs, Fabspeed, three spoke wheel, six point harnesses, FPB, etc. At this point I simply have no idea what it's worth but let me know if you're interested. See it here https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/244764-happy-holidays-to-me.html
Hi. I am introducing myself. Or my car, either way. I previously had a 3.0 1972 914/6 (http://tinyurl.com/abf8y) and decided it would be nice to have something less fragile. I had looked at both 964s and 993s and came close a few times but buyer's remorse set in before I cut checks. Fast forward to mid-October when my mechanic found me a local 1995 993C2. I was not looking for a garage queen since I will track it, but it was straight enough.
When I got it the car was already chipped. To bring it up to snuff I bought a hood (a poorly repaired ding had rusted through), had it painted by Julio (if you need bodywork in CT -- or NY or NJ -- call me, he had a terrific Allard there, and a series 1 E-type, etc), and bought a cat (to make it DOT compliant). I installed JIC Cross coilovers, a pair of GT3 seats from The Speed Gallery (forgive the shameless plugs and yes, they fit but are a PIA to install), a three spoke Atiwe steering wheel from FVD, pedals from AJ USA and a Hargett Precision dead pedal. Also a CDR210, two sets of 18" twists (one for the track and one for the street), a new shift **** and boot, a front protection bar from SCARGO, a storage bin (to replace the ridiculous OEM cassette storage thing) from Carnewal, a harness bar, five point camlocks, the all-important bumper plugs and clear stone protection film for the bumper, some of the hood, etc. from armorglove.com in Cos Cob (they are great people to work with) and voila! Major thanks to Spencer *** (http://farnbacherloles.com/) and Julio.
I am in LOVE with my 993. The suspension is fantastic. The seats, ditto. Everything. I am mad about it.
When I got it the car was already chipped. To bring it up to snuff I bought a hood (a poorly repaired ding had rusted through), had it painted by Julio (if you need bodywork in CT -- or NY or NJ -- call me, he had a terrific Allard there, and a series 1 E-type, etc), and bought a cat (to make it DOT compliant). I installed JIC Cross coilovers, a pair of GT3 seats from The Speed Gallery (forgive the shameless plugs and yes, they fit but are a PIA to install), a three spoke Atiwe steering wheel from FVD, pedals from AJ USA and a Hargett Precision dead pedal. Also a CDR210, two sets of 18" twists (one for the track and one for the street), a new shift **** and boot, a front protection bar from SCARGO, a storage bin (to replace the ridiculous OEM cassette storage thing) from Carnewal, a harness bar, five point camlocks, the all-important bumper plugs and clear stone protection film for the bumper, some of the hood, etc. from armorglove.com in Cos Cob (they are great people to work with) and voila! Major thanks to Spencer *** (http://farnbacherloles.com/) and Julio.
I am in LOVE with my 993. The suspension is fantastic. The seats, ditto. Everything. I am mad about it.
Last edited by Mark in Baltimore; 06-13-2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason: typos!
06-12-2008, 10:34 PM
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The Rennlist court of public opinion very much holds weight with matters such as this, although there may not be clear consensus. My $0.02, based on what was written and assuming that everyone is being forthright in their statements:
Matt, if none (or few) of the items you discussed were on the PPI (wet carpet, twisted hood, door re-spray, etc), then I 'd say you really need to talk to Dan and find out why these issues were not revelaed. Also, if the wheels that were advertised and presented in correspondence were different than what was delivered, I'd be seriously pissed off. I'd be interested in reading what transpired between you and Lawrence and how the car was described. That may be quite revealing.
If I bought a “DE-dedicated” car, I would be cognizant that the car might very well be rough around the edges. Being the generally thorough bastard that I am, I would ask the seller to point out every single issue that a concerned buyer would want to know. (When I buy something on ebay, I try to ask questions such as: Is this authentic? Are there any scratches, blemishes, etc. that a discerning buyer would want to know about? Are there any issues that I should be aware of?) However, stating that it is a “DE-dedicated 993”, IMHO, does not automatically give a seller a pass to not be, dare I use the word, fairly honest, especially as it pertaints to patently obvious issues such as paint and panel alignment and especially with a Rennlister.
Matt, I hate to say this, but perhaps you really should have done a better job by asking more questions. (Maybe you did.) If you did ask all of the right questions, I think you did your due diligence as evidenced by the presence of the PPI. Certainly it would have been a better idea to take the car to a shop that did not have a relationship with the seller. Dan Jacobs is a phenomenal mechanic and has one of the best reputations out there, but, assuming that Dan personally did the PPI, which I would find hard to believe, people are people and prone to biases and subjectivity, however unintentioned. There is a reason researchers conduct double-blind studies. If Dan;s shop missed all of those items or did not tell you, I would have a discussion with Dan.
Lawrence, to be fair, I'm not sure what transpired between you and Matt, but, if the issue with the wheels is true, I would think he would have a legitimate problem on that matter, at the very least. It sounds like the car may have been misrepresented, although, to be fair, no one knows what you two discussed. Billing the car as a “DE-dedicated 993” does not, IMHO, relieve you of the responsibility of discussing material issues such as the hood, the door re-spray, the broken seat rail, etc,. that Matt assumed, rightly or wrongly, would be revealed in the PPI, if, in fact, you did not mention it. Although the dirty interior is a minor issue, I think Matt brings it up to show a perceived lack of care. I would never, ever sell a car that was dirty, partly because I want the car to be sold in the best light and partly because I want the new buyer to have a clean car. I am not a fastidious concours guy, but there’s a matter of pride in the cars I am selling.
”This is a dirty, chipped, scratched car with good suspension and drivetrain that is fast and dependable.” Did you specifically describe the 993 to Matt like this? If you did, this should have been fair warning of the type of car to expect.
Tricky situation. I think it would be fair to say that Matt thought a fellow Rennlister would take care of him. Perhaps more will be uncovered, but, at this point, Lawrence, I think you owe Matt more than an apology. I am willing to retract this statement if documentation reveals another scenario.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393856
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244764
Matt, if none (or few) of the items you discussed were on the PPI (wet carpet, twisted hood, door re-spray, etc), then I 'd say you really need to talk to Dan and find out why these issues were not revelaed. Also, if the wheels that were advertised and presented in correspondence were different than what was delivered, I'd be seriously pissed off. I'd be interested in reading what transpired between you and Lawrence and how the car was described. That may be quite revealing.
If I bought a “DE-dedicated” car, I would be cognizant that the car might very well be rough around the edges. Being the generally thorough bastard that I am, I would ask the seller to point out every single issue that a concerned buyer would want to know. (When I buy something on ebay, I try to ask questions such as: Is this authentic? Are there any scratches, blemishes, etc. that a discerning buyer would want to know about? Are there any issues that I should be aware of?) However, stating that it is a “DE-dedicated 993”, IMHO, does not automatically give a seller a pass to not be, dare I use the word, fairly honest, especially as it pertaints to patently obvious issues such as paint and panel alignment and especially with a Rennlister.
Matt, I hate to say this, but perhaps you really should have done a better job by asking more questions. (Maybe you did.) If you did ask all of the right questions, I think you did your due diligence as evidenced by the presence of the PPI. Certainly it would have been a better idea to take the car to a shop that did not have a relationship with the seller. Dan Jacobs is a phenomenal mechanic and has one of the best reputations out there, but, assuming that Dan personally did the PPI, which I would find hard to believe, people are people and prone to biases and subjectivity, however unintentioned. There is a reason researchers conduct double-blind studies. If Dan;s shop missed all of those items or did not tell you, I would have a discussion with Dan.
Lawrence, to be fair, I'm not sure what transpired between you and Matt, but, if the issue with the wheels is true, I would think he would have a legitimate problem on that matter, at the very least. It sounds like the car may have been misrepresented, although, to be fair, no one knows what you two discussed. Billing the car as a “DE-dedicated 993” does not, IMHO, relieve you of the responsibility of discussing material issues such as the hood, the door re-spray, the broken seat rail, etc,. that Matt assumed, rightly or wrongly, would be revealed in the PPI, if, in fact, you did not mention it. Although the dirty interior is a minor issue, I think Matt brings it up to show a perceived lack of care. I would never, ever sell a car that was dirty, partly because I want the car to be sold in the best light and partly because I want the new buyer to have a clean car. I am not a fastidious concours guy, but there’s a matter of pride in the cars I am selling.
”This is a dirty, chipped, scratched car with good suspension and drivetrain that is fast and dependable.” Did you specifically describe the 993 to Matt like this? If you did, this should have been fair warning of the type of car to expect.
Tricky situation. I think it would be fair to say that Matt thought a fellow Rennlister would take care of him. Perhaps more will be uncovered, but, at this point, Lawrence, I think you owe Matt more than an apology. I am willing to retract this statement if documentation reveals another scenario.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393856
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244764