Help, I just found out my car has a salvage title.....
#32
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bend Oregon
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Mark: YOu are kidding about the SC re-body, eh? I am not against a guy flipping a car to make a buck however I see no discussion of a PPI. That is just plain unforgiveable. Now I repeat, screw CarFax. It is a joke. The way CarFax gets its info is from the Stateand they get it from the insurance company. In my case the ins co screwed up and did not report so teh car I sold was clean on CarFax. What does it say on the (*^)($789&% title? No salvage then it is clear. Other issues I have had have been strictly around ODO fraud. if you suspect ODO tampering here is my experience and I have collected on this twice.. On odo fraud regardless of whether the owner knows it, the seller is responsible. In Oregon it is 10% of the value of the car. I bought a Porsche that showed 84k and turned out the odo had been changed. I got $2k from the seller OR he has the option of refunding my money. States may vary. 67k is really low ,miles. Check carfax on that. If it is fishy you can go after the guy. It is a federal offense and makes most quite nervous. I have found the best thing is the internet and going to DMV web sites etc. I got the state of OR to pay me $3k cause a snowplough driver failed to put out flares in front of a downed tree. I did a search for ODOT handbook and found the rule right there. Every gov doc is on hte net. I suggest yoiur take a deep breath and slow down. Lastly, salvage can mean a lot of things. Like is was up to the gunnels in water however after water drained everything was ok. You got a nice car cheap. Of course as a quick profit that may be gone. BTW, PPI should include on Pcars compression and leak down. I will give you one thing. You have gottena lot of attention.
#33
R.I.P
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
When carfax turns up something negative, you can believe it. The lack of negatives on carfax however does not mean the car is clean. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack. If you find it you know it was there. Grabing a handful of hay doesn't rule out that there might be a needle still in it. As far as the salvage designation on a car title, I believe that it can disappear when the car is retitled in another state. I don't know how it's done, but I've heard that it can be done.
#34
Tsk, tsk. I'll bet you are wondering whether this unfortunate fellow will reveal his dark secret to his flippee. Although I don't think he has commented on that matter, I'm sure he will fully reveal it.
#35
There have been countless posts on this forum about the advantages of buying from a Rennlister. After reading this thread I'm beginning to wonder if that's just a joke.
#36
FYI, here in AZ an odometer reading is recorded for the semi-annual smog check, but I have yet to see the smog check technician take that reading. He/she always asks me to read the mileage to him, so you can imagine there is all sorts of potential for erroneous readings.
#37
Rennlist Member
I must confess that whatever esoteric point there is to this thread ... it is eluding me.
You bought a $22K used car with a clean Title - if it doesn't say salvage, it is not - so what's the fuss? That the car has had body and/or suspension work done doesn't automatically dictate a salvage title ..... any more that having a trans syncro or a valve guide top end job does. If the previous owner purchased it as a 5th DD in his fleet - and only accrued 400 miles, I would presume him either innocent or ignorant of previous repairs unless you can prove otherwise.
Was the chassis correctly repaired? - to Porsche standards? If so, you got a good $22K driver - exactly what you paid for!
If your expectation was to have it presented center stage at the '09 Barrett-Jackson Auction for the flip of the century .... I share your disappointment.
You bought a $22K used car with a clean Title - if it doesn't say salvage, it is not - so what's the fuss? That the car has had body and/or suspension work done doesn't automatically dictate a salvage title ..... any more that having a trans syncro or a valve guide top end job does. If the previous owner purchased it as a 5th DD in his fleet - and only accrued 400 miles, I would presume him either innocent or ignorant of previous repairs unless you can prove otherwise.
Was the chassis correctly repaired? - to Porsche standards? If so, you got a good $22K driver - exactly what you paid for!
If your expectation was to have it presented center stage at the '09 Barrett-Jackson Auction for the flip of the century .... I share your disappointment.
#38
R.I.P
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Here's a little tidbit from the Illinois DMV
http://www.dmv.org/il-illinois/salvaged-vehicles.php
Here's another
from
http://www.autopi.com/update.htm
You'll notice that CA. is one of the states. This car passed through CA.
etc.,etc.,etc
The lack of the salvage designation on the title does not equal a clean title.
Consumer Warnings
After Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, thousands of water-damaged vehicles are appearing on the used car market. Titles that have been transferred from state to state may lose any indication that the vehicle was ever declared salvage.
Protect yourself from buying a salvage vehicle that wasn't properly repaired. Be wary of a vehicle with an out-of-state title or one where the seller's name is not the one on the title.
Also check for water damage, moldy smells, discolored carpet, and other signs that the vehicle may have been submerged.
You may also want to avail yourself of one of the many title investigation services. These title search companies will, for a small fee, check all instances of the vehicle's VIN number on titles in every state. Even your dealer may honestly not know that he or she is selling a vehicle with a title that has been "cleaned" of the salvage designation.
After Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, thousands of water-damaged vehicles are appearing on the used car market. Titles that have been transferred from state to state may lose any indication that the vehicle was ever declared salvage.
Protect yourself from buying a salvage vehicle that wasn't properly repaired. Be wary of a vehicle with an out-of-state title or one where the seller's name is not the one on the title.
Also check for water damage, moldy smells, discolored carpet, and other signs that the vehicle may have been submerged.
You may also want to avail yourself of one of the many title investigation services. These title search companies will, for a small fee, check all instances of the vehicle's VIN number on titles in every state. Even your dealer may honestly not know that he or she is selling a vehicle with a title that has been "cleaned" of the salvage designation.
Here's another
Titles washed away.
17 states do not record the "salvaged vehicle" title designations for out-of-state cars and trucks.
Arizona Maine New York
Arkansas Michigan North Dakota
California Minnesota* Ohio
Illinois Mississippi Rhode Island
Indiana Missouri Texas
Kentucky New Jersey Vermont
* Minnesota does not carry forward "salvaged vehicle" designations for cars and trucks that are more than 5 years old
Title-washing
17 states do not record the "salvaged vehicle" title designations for out-of-state cars and trucks.
Arizona Maine New York
Arkansas Michigan North Dakota
California Minnesota* Ohio
Illinois Mississippi Rhode Island
Indiana Missouri Texas
Kentucky New Jersey Vermont
* Minnesota does not carry forward "salvaged vehicle" designations for cars and trucks that are more than 5 years old
Title-washing
http://www.autopi.com/update.htm
You'll notice that CA. is one of the states. This car passed through CA.
Insurers & the Rebuilt Wrecks Scam
ConsumerAffairs.com / Sept 25, 2006
Not long ago, the Senior Counsel for the Consumer Federation of America (CFA) testified before a U.S. House of Representatives subcommittee about the problem of wrecked and storm-damaged cars being rebuilt and sold as "certified" used cars.
"Each year, millions of severely damaged vehicles are not destroyed, but rather are sent by unprincipled insurers to auto auctions where they are sold to unscrupulous auto dealers and rebuilders," CFA's attorney Rachel Weintraub told the House subcommittee. "Unscrupulous insurers, auto dealers, auto auctions, and rebuilders pocket billions in ill-gotten gains from the fraudulent sales of prior damaged autos -- at the public's expense."
Weintraub said the scam works this way:
• A consumer wrecks a vehicle -- or it's damaged in a flood or other catastrophic event. The insurance company totals the vehicle, and pays the claim. The insurance company may or may not brand the title as "salvage." A salvage title reduces the vehicle's value by 50 percent;
• The insurance company sells the vehicle to a salvage auction. The auction gives the insurance company part of the profits from the vehicle's sale. A 2002 Consumer Reports investigation estimated that insurance companies recovered $2.5 billion a year from the salvage sales of wrecked vehicles;
• An unscrupulous rebuilder buys the wrecked vehicle and makes cosmetic repairs to conceal signs of previous damage. Rebuilders typically don't have the expertise to repair wrecked vehicles, are often unlicensed by the states, and sometimes are based in Mexico and other countries Another dangerous ruse? Rebuilders often disable the airbag systems or fail to replace the deployed ones. Air bags are expensive to replace; one airbag for a luxury car may cost as much as $2,000. Multiply that by six and the price tag quickly adds up.
• Rebuilders sell the wrecked vehicle to another auction, a dealer, or a curbstoner. Those are people who make repairs in their own shops or backyards, and then sell directly to consumers. If the title was branded as salvage, rebuilders try to erase all signs that the vehicle was damaged. That's called "washing" a title. Rebuilders wash the titles by sending them to states that don't recognize the salvage brands. They also use the correction fluid, Wite-Out, to conceal the vehicle's history or make a counterfeit title. "There is a large incentive to commit fraud," Weintraub testified. "A vehicle with a clean title can command a far higher price than one with a branded title."
• Rebuilders often advertise these damaged vehicles as "certified" used cars in mint condition. If consumers ask about the car's history, they're told the title is clean. Consumers can't confirm that information because they usually don't see the title before the sale. If they get a loan, for example, the lien holder gets the title.
Weintraub told House members this scam threatens the safety of hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting consumers nationwide.
"Consumers may unwittingly purchase a car that superficially appears in good working order, but has been previously severely damaged by serious collision or flood damage," she testified.
No one knows for sure how many rebuilt wrecks are on the market, but the Consumer Reports investigation estimated the industry "beats, bends, and bangs out as many as 400,000" annually that are five or less model-years old. And many consumer experts say that number is likely much higher.
________________________________________________________________________ __________________
ConsumerAffairs.com / Sept 25, 2006
Not long ago, the Senior Counsel for the Consumer Federation of America (CFA) testified before a U.S. House of Representatives subcommittee about the problem of wrecked and storm-damaged cars being rebuilt and sold as "certified" used cars.
"Each year, millions of severely damaged vehicles are not destroyed, but rather are sent by unprincipled insurers to auto auctions where they are sold to unscrupulous auto dealers and rebuilders," CFA's attorney Rachel Weintraub told the House subcommittee. "Unscrupulous insurers, auto dealers, auto auctions, and rebuilders pocket billions in ill-gotten gains from the fraudulent sales of prior damaged autos -- at the public's expense."
Weintraub said the scam works this way:
• A consumer wrecks a vehicle -- or it's damaged in a flood or other catastrophic event. The insurance company totals the vehicle, and pays the claim. The insurance company may or may not brand the title as "salvage." A salvage title reduces the vehicle's value by 50 percent;
• The insurance company sells the vehicle to a salvage auction. The auction gives the insurance company part of the profits from the vehicle's sale. A 2002 Consumer Reports investigation estimated that insurance companies recovered $2.5 billion a year from the salvage sales of wrecked vehicles;
• An unscrupulous rebuilder buys the wrecked vehicle and makes cosmetic repairs to conceal signs of previous damage. Rebuilders typically don't have the expertise to repair wrecked vehicles, are often unlicensed by the states, and sometimes are based in Mexico and other countries Another dangerous ruse? Rebuilders often disable the airbag systems or fail to replace the deployed ones. Air bags are expensive to replace; one airbag for a luxury car may cost as much as $2,000. Multiply that by six and the price tag quickly adds up.
• Rebuilders sell the wrecked vehicle to another auction, a dealer, or a curbstoner. Those are people who make repairs in their own shops or backyards, and then sell directly to consumers. If the title was branded as salvage, rebuilders try to erase all signs that the vehicle was damaged. That's called "washing" a title. Rebuilders wash the titles by sending them to states that don't recognize the salvage brands. They also use the correction fluid, Wite-Out, to conceal the vehicle's history or make a counterfeit title. "There is a large incentive to commit fraud," Weintraub testified. "A vehicle with a clean title can command a far higher price than one with a branded title."
• Rebuilders often advertise these damaged vehicles as "certified" used cars in mint condition. If consumers ask about the car's history, they're told the title is clean. Consumers can't confirm that information because they usually don't see the title before the sale. If they get a loan, for example, the lien holder gets the title.
Weintraub told House members this scam threatens the safety of hundreds of thousands of unsuspecting consumers nationwide.
"Consumers may unwittingly purchase a car that superficially appears in good working order, but has been previously severely damaged by serious collision or flood damage," she testified.
No one knows for sure how many rebuilt wrecks are on the market, but the Consumer Reports investigation estimated the industry "beats, bends, and bangs out as many as 400,000" annually that are five or less model-years old. And many consumer experts say that number is likely much higher.
________________________________________________________________________ __________________
The lack of the salvage designation on the title does not equal a clean title.
#39
Wallflower
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I hate to hear the trouble you're having. It is always a gamble to purchase w/o a PPI, and I think that's the moral of the story.
As for the carfax, I typically do get one, but as mentioned above, it's just one piece of the puzzle.
I do encourage you to be honest if you attempt to sell it. The seller you purchased from may very well have not known about the issues either, particularly if he only put 400 miles on the car.
As for the carfax, I typically do get one, but as mentioned above, it's just one piece of the puzzle.
I do encourage you to be honest if you attempt to sell it. The seller you purchased from may very well have not known about the issues either, particularly if he only put 400 miles on the car.
#40
Race Car
I like the phrase; "unprincipled insurers." State Farm dumped approximately 250,000 Katrina vehicles into auctions nationwide. The state of Louisiana did not require a law enforcement report after Katrina to total a vehicle. These vehicles have clean titles. Do not buy a car that was in Louisiana in 2005...end of hijack.
#41
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Besides, you said you only bought it to "flip it for few dollars", sorry but no pity from me.
If you were enthusiast bying a car "for life", I'd feel really sorry and help you in any way I can but since this was striclty business thing for you, you get nothing.
Sorry to sound harsh but you're not the only one to make badbusiness decisions in life, me included. Learn from it and move on.
#43
According to Carfax the car was wrecked in Arlington, Va. in Jan.05. Then sold to a guy in Fla. who sold it to me in Ky. The title I got from him issued by the state of Fla. did not designate it a salvage vehicle. The Co. clerk here in Lexington asked me if the car was salvage when I called pre=purchase to ask about taxes. This was b/4 I gave her the vin# or any info, it's just a standard question. But according to your list the 'salvage' would not be washed from the title if wrecked in Va. and sold to Fla. The milage was piling up until Va./Jan. 05 so that is consistent with the wreck occurring there.
#44
Rennlist Member