1pcarnut

Thanks for the clarification!

Charles Navarro

No problem!

Slow Guy

Does anyone know the answer to this? Has Porsche changed their "official" recommendation to 0w50?

Van1

Well, the one thing that I have learned from this tread is that I am going to ditch the Mobil 1 0w-40 fill that is currently in my 993 (only 3k mi ) and refill it with Elf Excellium Racing 10w-50. Sorry, if it is good enough for Porsche Motorsports, it should be good enough for me. And it is synthetic. In the end, both of those things make me feel good.

ppashley

I am having my car filled this week with M1 0-40W (or it has been already been...)

This was on the basis on the last oil thread in October which basically threw out M1 15-50 as the No.1 oil for aircooled, and suggested, M1 0-40W as one of several ideal replacements.

Charles - I looked up on the Mobil site the ZDDP of M1 0-40 and it was 1000ZDDP. On your site I think you suggest that this ZDDP is lower than the reccoemended levels of ZDDM for our aircooled cars (1200-1400ZDDP?), but that this can be resolved by using an oil additive such as GM's EOS, which will boost the ZDDP, by 100-200 ZDDP.

Did I get this right? Do I need to do this and if so have I rectfied what's lacking in this oil?

There seems to be some differing opinions out there, and to be honest I am sure I am one of many wondering what the ideal oil is... that won't lead to the premature engine wear that steve has noticed is on the increase. I seem to be hearing that this is now: Brad-Penn 20w-50 ?

Phil

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,..Its not about whether YOU feel good, its really about whether your ENGINE "feels" good,.....

matt777

But if my engine feels good I feel good

After reading all of the posts and the 400-500 at Pelican I think my suggestion for an approved oil list looks even better. There is obviously a substantial level of concern with the change in oil formulations and the same questions keep getting asked. The only issue is who (or whom?) will approve the list. I think it's like belling the cat
Obviously Steve and Charles are the most qualified folks that I know of due to their experience and testing. I doubt Porsche takes much interest in the air cooled cars these days as they are focused on the new stuff.

ps This oil issue is not just for Porsches. My background is muscle cars and there have been many stories of wiped cams. It seems to mainly apply to rebuilt engines. I suspect higher valve spring pressures and low quality lifters might have something to do with it too. I went as far as using a roller cam to avoid this problem altogether. Hughes Engines issued a publication specifically talking about the reductions in phosphorus and zinc levels just like Charles has.

ppashley

+1 Agree. Lets make it a sticky too.

Agree, plus there are some other Oil experts out there that might want to opine also ....

Paul902

Good thread... does anybody know the ZDDP level for this oil?

Paul902

I'm so confused...the (important) factors presented here seem to be viscosity, ZDDP level, syn vs non-syn, and detergents. Swepco 306 and Brad Penn oils are getting the approval and M1 is eating dust. However, when I look at the test data on Charles' site (downloaded an Excel spreadsheet), I think it suggests that even M1 SM formulation 15W50 has higher Z and P levels than Swepco 306 and Brad Penn, plus it is synthetic. Is it down to the detergents?What am I missing??

Thanks for the informative posts!

cesar

Should I really be concerned if I'm putting 3000 miles per year street use on M1 15/50?

FLYT993

I think the important thing here is NOT to focus on any one particular element, i.e., ZDDP, but rather the synergistic effect of all of the elements (base, detergents, additives, proportion) and the tech specs for the oils...VI, HTHS, ZDDP, etc. I think folks are focusing too much on the ZDDP element and ignoring the other components which are essential too. For example, as Charles pointed out the Joe Gibbs oils have great levels of ZDDP, but lack sufficient detergents for our cars. The BPenn, and Swepco oils are no doubt excellent, but Steve (Rennsport) is a beast when it comes to oil changes....3k regardless of dino or synth. I just picked up Redline's 15W/50 and it's SH/SJ/SL rated, and it has superb VI/HTHS values. I favor the RL oil/values because my car tends to run a little on the hot side, and it's been given a thumbs up by Steve, Charles, and Doug (the oil braintrust of RL).

Charles, my RL 15W-50 says it meets the ACEA B5-02 and A5-02 requirements...I haven't seen those ACEA numbers before...just the A3/B3 as you previously noted. Are the B5/A5 newer more rigorous testing protocols?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Finally,........I get the recognition that I richly deserve,...

Its the single best thing one can to do to extend engine life based on what I've seen in automobile engines since 1962 and 911's are no exception. Man, I feel old,...

Charles Navarro

Those results were for the old M1 15w50, not the new one. I have bottles of M1 15w50 going back to the mid 90s, and I can tell you for sure, the new stuff (either formulation), is nothing like what we all used to run.

Charles Navarro

I had to refresh my memory on that one. I thought the A5/B5 was for a low saps oil (low Zn, P) and I'm glad my memory's still good.

Shy of pouring through the ACEA 2004 specification, I found this good summary:

http://www.gulfoilltd.com/products_s...ts1/index.html

A3/B3

"Modern formulation (called "mid SAPS") technology and synthetic base fluids combine to deliver a high performance engine oil, approvals by MB (229.31) and BMW LL-04, it also meets the ACEA A3/B4 and C3 specifications"

VS.

A5/B5

"Low viscosity, low friction, "low SAPS", yet excellent engine protection; this oil is designed for vehicles fitted with diesel particulate filters and three-way catalysts, for engines which require oils meeting ACEA A5/B5 and C2"