4 Myths...Busted
01-22-2008, 08:12 AM
#32
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I run 16” cups and 18” hollow-spokes which are a very similar weight. At stock tyre pressure both wheels give a harsh, nervous ride and are impossible to tell apart when driving, except for lighter steering on the 16s. At lower pressures, the 16” have a very slight edge for comfort but the difference is marginal.
On my wife’s Audi I replaced the heavy 17” wheels for lighter 16” wheels and there is a noticeable improvement in general ride quality and the ability to handle bumps.
01-22-2008, 10:07 AM
#33
Weathergirl
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I'm not sure you can trust anything someone from FL or So. CA posts about ride quality or handling over bumps. Don't bring your 18s or 19s to the twisty and fun--but incredibly badly maintained, rippled, chunked and potholed roads of the rural northeast. It's a whole different world.
01-22-2008, 01:53 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm not sure you can trust anything someone from FL or So. CA posts about ride quality or handling over bumps. Don't bring your 18s or 19s to the twisty and fun--but incredibly badly maintained, rippled, chunked and potholed roads of the rural northeast. It's a whole different world.
01-22-2008, 02:33 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Mark,
I'm not racing my car as it's an extremely nice example happily enjoying sunny San Diego daily driver status. That said, Mind Over was a for profit business with a special emphasis on racing and car setup so our definition of competitors differs in this case. Our processes and data compiled over the years is our proprietary "value add" and also benefited from highly coveted Porsche Factory Motorsports data not generally available to others. And while M.O.M. is now closed because my partner and I couldn't agree on the fundamentals of how to run a (profitable) business, it's still possible Flat-6 might evolve in the same direction (currently my new partner and I are building some very exciting 73 RS lightweight replicas with pics coming soon of our first collaboration on a 1990 964 donor left over from M.O.M.). I hope you understand that the idea of not posting our "suspension solution" for 993's verbatim so that highly competitive local shops competing against our former customers still racing hard for example can just pull it off the web. Note that Mind Over cars (from 944's to 997GT3's) were consitently running at the VERY front in multiple classes/models from weekend novice racers to full blown Pro shoes. Several Rennlisters will attest to that.
In reality, the alignment settings for my dedicated street use only 993 are not going to really make a big difference to anyone I"d agree but the principal behind the not posting stuff we used to and might again charge for in general I hope is understood.
Here are a couple of other 993's specifically that benefited from the same data including our own shop car (driven by Randy Pobst and Craig Stanton at the 2005 24H of Thunderhill) and a private customer's very rare and expensive still Factory 993GT2-R Sprinter.
Regards,
Jordan
I'm not racing my car as it's an extremely nice example happily enjoying sunny San Diego daily driver status. That said, Mind Over was a for profit business with a special emphasis on racing and car setup so our definition of competitors differs in this case. Our processes and data compiled over the years is our proprietary "value add" and also benefited from highly coveted Porsche Factory Motorsports data not generally available to others. And while M.O.M. is now closed because my partner and I couldn't agree on the fundamentals of how to run a (profitable) business, it's still possible Flat-6 might evolve in the same direction (currently my new partner and I are building some very exciting 73 RS lightweight replicas with pics coming soon of our first collaboration on a 1990 964 donor left over from M.O.M.). I hope you understand that the idea of not posting our "suspension solution" for 993's verbatim so that highly competitive local shops competing against our former customers still racing hard for example can just pull it off the web. Note that Mind Over cars (from 944's to 997GT3's) were consitently running at the VERY front in multiple classes/models from weekend novice racers to full blown Pro shoes. Several Rennlisters will attest to that.
In reality, the alignment settings for my dedicated street use only 993 are not going to really make a big difference to anyone I"d agree but the principal behind the not posting stuff we used to and might again charge for in general I hope is understood.
Here are a couple of other 993's specifically that benefited from the same data including our own shop car (driven by Randy Pobst and Craig Stanton at the 2005 24H of Thunderhill) and a private customer's very rare and expensive still Factory 993GT2-R Sprinter.
Regards,
Jordan
Thanks, Jordan. With the internet having de-mystified many things in life, I didn't think there were too many alignment secrets, but our situations are different. I always find it amusing when club racers are reluctant to share information with each other; I mean, it's not like anyone's mortgage payment depends on the win.
01-22-2008, 02:41 PM
#36
Drifting
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Dave, that's acutally Jordan's car...which inspired my post. I'm sure others can attest to the fact that, when the 993 is "dialed" in, it's a F'ing beast. I'm learning alot on this board, and meeting some great people.
Jordan, you got it man! When I get my car set up, we are gonna find a really nice section of Hwy 1 and put her on duty. Gotta get my little one potty trained so I can stop spending a fortune on diapers
Jordan, you got it man! When I get my car set up, we are gonna find a really nice section of Hwy 1 and put her on duty. Gotta get my little one potty trained so I can stop spending a fortune on diapers
...I couldn't take my eyes/brain off the car...your name was closest to the picture 
I am really a complete noob with the suspension stuff but I found that when I lowered the car with the PSS9 and changed the camber...completely different car. The set-up was done for me by a shop that races 993's and other cars, they found their "street/track" formula and did it to mine. I still mess around the edges of the set-up. Still drivable on the road...but I had to start over on the track. I find that tire pressure changes now make a bigger difference than before and the "stock" understeer is gone. Makes it much more challenging AND satisfying...but then again, I am easily impressed.
01-23-2008, 01:28 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
I knew that ...I couldn't take my eyes/brain off the car...your name was closest to the picture
I am really a complete noob with the suspension stuff but I found that when I lowered the car with the PSS9 and changed the camber...completely different car. The set-up was done for me by a shop that races 993's and other cars, they found their "street/track" formula and did it to mine. I still mess around the edges of the set-up. Still drivable on the road...but I had to start over on the track. I find that tire pressure changes now make a bigger difference than before and the "stock" understeer is gone. Makes it much more challenging AND satisfying...but then again, I am easily impressed.
...I couldn't take my eyes/brain off the car...your name was closest to the picture I am really a complete noob with the suspension stuff but I found that when I lowered the car with the PSS9 and changed the camber...completely different car. The set-up was done for me by a shop that races 993's and other cars, they found their "street/track" formula and did it to mine. I still mess around the edges of the set-up. Still drivable on the road...but I had to start over on the track. I find that tire pressure changes now make a bigger difference than before and the "stock" understeer is gone. Makes it much more challenging AND satisfying...but then again, I am easily impressed.
It's great fun refining your car like that over time. Tire pressures make a huge difference under all circumstances agreed but with ride height that low, GT2 EVO Uprights will make as much difference as the 9's did initially. Any issues with bump steer?
01-23-2008, 10:21 AM
#38
Drifting
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thanks for the advice!
01-23-2008, 11:02 AM
#39
Drifting
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Set up
I am running PSS9s (currently set on 4 all round), 18" wheels with p-zeros rosso's 225/40 and 265/35 (34psi front 36 rear)....could have gone bigger and probably will when I change....ride height 127mm at front, 106mm at rear, Alignment Front (L/R) Camber 1 33 & 1 33/ Caster 5 52 & 5 37/ Toe 0 02 & 0 02 Rear Camber 2 02 & 2 01/ Toe 0 08 & 0 07........car rides well and for a sports car the ride although firm is not bone jarring....well except when you unsuspectingly hit pot holes...OUCH.........
When my car goes into ASG in the spring for some "stuff" I am thinking of getting realignment done.....front camber more or less as is but dropping the rear some........thoughts
When my car goes into ASG in the spring for some "stuff" I am thinking of getting realignment done.....front camber more or less as is but dropping the rear some........thoughts
01-23-2008, 06:50 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Well.....Busted...Not so much IMHO
We read about the busted myths:
1. The LWF "gear lash" was barely perceptible....put in a RS tranny mount, RS motor mounts and a RS shifter rod, you'll hear some noise. However, once you are rolling, the rattle is undetectable.
2. 18in wheels ride no worse than 17 inch. I'm all original on 17...a 18" 30 series tire with its stiffer sidewalls has got to be stiffer than a 35 or 40 series sidewall. I have run 285/30 and slightly taller 18" tires as well as the 17" factory tires...the factory tires seemed to ride better for me.
3. PSS9's set to "hard" don't ride like a covered wagon. Once again, a matter of opinion...I have taken a long ride on PSS9s set full stiff, there were just that stiff.
4. Fat, and I mean FAT tires will fit in NB 993. He's got 295's out back...once again as we have seen throughtout this thread, the fit is determined by the ride height of the car as well as negative camber and the specs of the tire. Yes you could get a 295 in the rear wheel well, but drive the car real hard and you may see some rubbing as the suspension is compressed.
In conclusion, I respect Jordan's abilities and talent...as a former customer of his. However I am not convinced that the four (4) myths are busted, IMHO of course.
1. The LWF "gear lash" was barely perceptible....put in a RS tranny mount, RS motor mounts and a RS shifter rod, you'll hear some noise. However, once you are rolling, the rattle is undetectable.
2. 18in wheels ride no worse than 17 inch. I'm all original on 17...a 18" 30 series tire with its stiffer sidewalls has got to be stiffer than a 35 or 40 series sidewall. I have run 285/30 and slightly taller 18" tires as well as the 17" factory tires...the factory tires seemed to ride better for me.
3. PSS9's set to "hard" don't ride like a covered wagon. Once again, a matter of opinion...I have taken a long ride on PSS9s set full stiff, there were just that stiff.
4. Fat, and I mean FAT tires will fit in NB 993. He's got 295's out back...once again as we have seen throughtout this thread, the fit is determined by the ride height of the car as well as negative camber and the specs of the tire. Yes you could get a 295 in the rear wheel well, but drive the car real hard and you may see some rubbing as the suspension is compressed.
In conclusion, I respect Jordan's abilities and talent...as a former customer of his. However I am not convinced that the four (4) myths are busted, IMHO of course.
01-23-2008, 07:21 PM
#41
Scared to Look
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I was looking at tires at Kauffman tire this weekend, and their computer list showed some 1995 models with factory 18s so I would ASSUME it was an option.
01-24-2008, 12:48 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
We read about the busted myths:
1. The LWF "gear lash" was barely perceptible....put in a RS tranny mount, RS motor mounts and a RS shifter rod, you'll hear some noise. However, once you are rolling, the rattle is undetectable.
2. 18in wheels ride no worse than 17 inch. I'm all original on 17...a 18" 30 series tire with its stiffer sidewalls has got to be stiffer than a 35 or 40 series sidewall. I have run 285/30 and slightly taller 18" tires as well as the 17" factory tires...the factory tires seemed to ride better for me.
3. PSS9's set to "hard" don't ride like a covered wagon. Once again, a matter of opinion...I have taken a long ride on PSS9s set full stiff, there were just that stiff.
4. Fat, and I mean FAT tires will fit in NB 993. He's got 295's out back...once again as we have seen throughtout this thread, the fit is determined by the ride height of the car as well as negative camber and the specs of the tire. Yes you could get a 295 in the rear wheel well, but drive the car real hard and you may see some rubbing as the suspension is compressed.
In conclusion, I respect Jordan's abilities and talent...as a former customer of his. However I am not convinced that the four (4) myths are busted, IMHO of course.
1. The LWF "gear lash" was barely perceptible....put in a RS tranny mount, RS motor mounts and a RS shifter rod, you'll hear some noise. However, once you are rolling, the rattle is undetectable.
2. 18in wheels ride no worse than 17 inch. I'm all original on 17...a 18" 30 series tire with its stiffer sidewalls has got to be stiffer than a 35 or 40 series sidewall. I have run 285/30 and slightly taller 18" tires as well as the 17" factory tires...the factory tires seemed to ride better for me.
3. PSS9's set to "hard" don't ride like a covered wagon. Once again, a matter of opinion...I have taken a long ride on PSS9s set full stiff, there were just that stiff.
4. Fat, and I mean FAT tires will fit in NB 993. He's got 295's out back...once again as we have seen throughtout this thread, the fit is determined by the ride height of the car as well as negative camber and the specs of the tire. Yes you could get a 295 in the rear wheel well, but drive the car real hard and you may see some rubbing as the suspension is compressed.
In conclusion, I respect Jordan's abilities and talent...as a former customer of his. However I am not convinced that the four (4) myths are busted, IMHO of course.