How to decide: TPC supercharger or Twin Turbo conversion? Detailed analysis.
#16
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Eric,
Since you are in Chicago, you could call euroquipe.com in St. Charles. The have done a few. I think they are listed at TPC installers. I always thought the TPC SC's were a little hokey with the 7th injector.
Since you are in Chicago, you could call euroquipe.com in St. Charles. The have done a few. I think they are listed at TPC installers. I always thought the TPC SC's were a little hokey with the 7th injector.
#17
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I think for a primarily track car, you'll find much more to be gained by taking the suspension to the next level. (Now I'm sure this more power want is driven by long straights by the tracks you normally run.) I think it's false economy to bolt on ANY of these forced induction systems to a stock engine, anyway.
Eric,
How many miles on your car? Have you spoken directly with Todd? Mentioned the 80/20 track bias?
#18
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Originally Posted by RallyJon
That makes no sense at all. 3.6L and 11:1 compression with turbos sized to make 6-8psi, should have you making full boost and serious torque by 2200-2500 rpm. T3 Super 60 may be too large for a low boost twin turbo. Or maybe their plumbing is just that inefficient and restrictive?...
Last edited by TheOtherEric; 01-22-2008 at 07:06 PM.
#19
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Yup, and he recommended the no-cat, center-mounted muffler setup for a track car. He wasn't otherwise concerned.
I don't know the answer. I asked if there was anything he could do to change that, and the answer was to use a .48 instead of .63 wheel (turbine?), which would give torque 500rpm sooner, at the expense of high end hp. He didn't really recommend this, though, I think because you'd lose "expandability" down the road.
I don't know the answer. I asked if there was anything he could do to change that, and the answer was to use a .48 instead of .63 wheel (turbine?), which would give torque 500rpm sooner, at the expense of high end hp. He didn't really recommend this, though, I think because you'd lose "expandability" down the road.
#20
Burning Brakes
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I'm sure I don't know the whole story, but I've got to ask. Why not take the selling price of your 1995 993 C2 + $14k that you would spend on an aftermarket super/turbo charger and get a 993TT?
Factory reliability, power and design that can take the abuse at the track. Like you said you are an engineer and given the cost cutting period Porsche was going through when it produced the 993 I don't think they would have put upgraded parts in the turbo engine unless it needed it.
Do you really want to troubleshoot piggyback ECUs, air/water cooler pumps and extra injectors?
While I don't have any personal experience supercharging a 993, I did put a Vortech kit on an 2002 S2000. It ruined the car for me as one thing lead to another. At first it was running lean which lead to a second piggy back controller which didn't work with the first. Then new injectors and another piggy back system (greddy emanage) but that system still couldn't add enough fuel where it needed it and it was adding too much fuel at part and no throttle.
So next a stand alone computer (AEM EMS) was installed replacing the factory and piggy back computers. The bonus was to be that I would make more power with the new programming, injectors and a smaller pulley at the cost of having to tune it from the ground up. This new power meant the stock clutch wasn't up to the task so a stronger clutch and lightweight flywheel went in, but this made the car VERY hard to drive on the street.
In the end it was a PITA to drive on the street, the tuning was taking forever to finish, it spent more time being worked on than being driven, and I had spent a small fortune on it with very small results for my time/money. I finally gave up on it, had everything pulled off the car and put it back to stock and traded it in on a 2003 996 C2.
Reading about all the crap I went through with the S2000 isn't even close to the real thing, but perhaps reading it will help you make your decision one way or another. In the end forced induction from the factory is always better IMHO.
But if you must do one or the other, I would vote for the turbo.
Factory reliability, power and design that can take the abuse at the track. Like you said you are an engineer and given the cost cutting period Porsche was going through when it produced the 993 I don't think they would have put upgraded parts in the turbo engine unless it needed it.
Do you really want to troubleshoot piggyback ECUs, air/water cooler pumps and extra injectors?
While I don't have any personal experience supercharging a 993, I did put a Vortech kit on an 2002 S2000. It ruined the car for me as one thing lead to another. At first it was running lean which lead to a second piggy back controller which didn't work with the first. Then new injectors and another piggy back system (greddy emanage) but that system still couldn't add enough fuel where it needed it and it was adding too much fuel at part and no throttle.
So next a stand alone computer (AEM EMS) was installed replacing the factory and piggy back computers. The bonus was to be that I would make more power with the new programming, injectors and a smaller pulley at the cost of having to tune it from the ground up. This new power meant the stock clutch wasn't up to the task so a stronger clutch and lightweight flywheel went in, but this made the car VERY hard to drive on the street.
In the end it was a PITA to drive on the street, the tuning was taking forever to finish, it spent more time being worked on than being driven, and I had spent a small fortune on it with very small results for my time/money. I finally gave up on it, had everything pulled off the car and put it back to stock and traded it in on a 2003 996 C2.
Reading about all the crap I went through with the S2000 isn't even close to the real thing, but perhaps reading it will help you make your decision one way or another. In the end forced induction from the factory is always better IMHO.
But if you must do one or the other, I would vote for the turbo.
#21
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This makes too much sense and takes the fun out of this rediculous hobby/addiction.
#22
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If my car were bone stock, then yeah, it might make sense to sell it for the TT.
#23
Burning Brakes
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I had a feeling that was the case(and thus why I said I don't know the whole story). Makes perfect sense as you have lots of time and money invested into your 993 already.
As I said at the end of my story I vote for turbo. Seems less complicated in terms of ecus, tuning, injectors and intercooling.
Good luck with the route you choose!
As I said at the end of my story I vote for turbo. Seems less complicated in terms of ecus, tuning, injectors and intercooling.
Good luck with the route you choose!
#25
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There was a guy near Lincoln, NE selling a nicely modded 993tt engine on ebay I was eyeballing for fun. Was gonna have my in-laws check it out. It had like 2K on it s/p a full rebuild including carrillos iirc. If you don't want that, go with Knighton, no question, imho.
#26
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Thanks everyone for all the comments. Looks like a pair of turbos are in my future. ![evilgrin](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/evilgrin.gif)
I'll keep the board updated, but it'll be some weeks before the parts ship to me. If anyone's interested, here's the basic layout of the Protomotive TT conversion. Except mine won't use headers or look as pretty.
![evilgrin](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/evilgrin.gif)
I'll keep the board updated, but it'll be some weeks before the parts ship to me. If anyone's interested, here's the basic layout of the Protomotive TT conversion. Except mine won't use headers or look as pretty.
![](http://www.protomotive.com/images/993chrome.jpg)
Last edited by TheOtherEric; 04-04-2008 at 05:04 PM.
#30
Drifting
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Can you get away without reducing compression/changing pistons? How about changing out the rod bolts for ARPs? With the engine already out I'm guessing this wouldn't be a substantial cost adder.