964 / 993 Control Arm Bushings
 

After a year of development, I have recently made available urethane replacement bushings for the 964/993 front lower control arms.

Attachment 1234008

They are available for purchase through me for $103.00 per kit. One kit will outfit two front lower control arms. Grease developed for this particular urethane is included in this kit. Notice these bushings incorporate grease channels to help prevent the bushings from drying out.

I have three sets of 993 ‘core’ control arms that I use as exchange parts with these bushings already installed. This service is available for those who do not wish to remove their original rubber bushings. Removing the original rubber bushings is not that difficult, just tedious and time consuming.
Removing the control arms is a very easy job. It will take one about an hour to complete the swap.


Email contact: cwalrod@sbcglobal.net
Paypal the same as my email.

you know i'm in! pm coming your way!!!

Looks great, Chris. You da man!

Super! any plans to make the 322x32 al/ hats available?

VERY smart business. Not a chance I'd want to change the bushings, but I'd be willing to put down a core deposit, swap 'em, and send you my old ones when the time comes!

I'm in. Hopefully the back end can be next.

Chris,
What is your business exactly? Those look awesome by the way. Been looking for bushing options other than the Smart Racing $1k ones.

Chris, I am interested in a set. I will do a check on my lower arms this weekend. Any idea when you hope to have the DIY ready? My braking wobble is back after having the rotors replaced again. The last set lasted about 3,000 miles. So I'm now thinking the wobble is related to the control arms.

Very cool!
Now I get the "Rennlist Small Business Sponsor" tag. Was wondering what you were up to :)

Nice touch on the donation too. Good stuff all around.

PS- What's the HP gain? :icon501:

At least 35hp -- on the control arm dyno. I'd post dyno sheets but I dont know where they are:)

Absolutely, just need to pile more miles on them before I release these hats. They are quite nice. Its a shame high-end aluminum is so freakin' expensive.

Well, during the day I am a track support engineer for the Champ Car Atlantic series. I work for a company who designs and manufactures open wheel (primarily) race cars.

Chris,
Well done, sign me up for a set :)

Chris is too modest, but I'm happy to advertise his resume. He works for a "small", "no-name" race car builder called, um, Swift Engineering!!. It's like having a guy from McLaren or Lola or Cosworth on the board.

Chris, congrats on the venture and a huge kudos to you for doing the right thing and becoming a sponsor right out of the gates. I wish you the best of luck; you are one of the nicest and most helpful individual here.

Yes!!! Chris...you have a PM.

Don't know if mine need to be replaced yet but when they do I'm coming out your way. Great idea.

Look forward to getting my set. I have a weird cupping on the inside faces of my front tires - Im hoping this solves the problem. You should have received my money at this point.

Good luck with your venture Chris and keep the 993 parts coming! Great that youve taken a $1400 replacement problem and knocked it down to $95. Now develop a midweight flywheel clutch and charge $200 for it!!! I can dream right?

Nice work, Chris! :thumbup: I'll be placing an order in the future as well.

I'm up for a set

I'm in PM sent-

Coleman.

Nice job Chris, nice work on solving a common problem that was very expensive to fix. I am sure we will all eventually need a set.

Cheers,

Mike

Well done Chris!

Already done, and its easy:

Step one: start the car

Step two: hold the key in the start position until you see metal shavings

Step three: let it cool down

Yes, thats right, you too can be a lathe operator:)

Thanks all for the nice words, really. You're too kind!

Here is a little blog on the racecar we are currently in the middle of designing:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...la-nippon.html

Nice work Chris. We will all benefit from this at some point.

King Hiro is your boss!!! :icon107::)

All contracts come up for review eventually, though, and Swift's owner, Hiro Matsu****a, one-time Champ Car racer and grandson of the founder of the Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co, was very keen for his company to supply his home nation's premier race series. Therefore it was with pride that Swift was able to announce that it had won the deal to supply the cars for three years starting in 2009.

He sure is:icon107:

He does rip-off some mean lap times in the parking lot upon arrival. Always a racer. :icon501:

Wow... wish I knew about this three weeks ago. I just spent beaucoup $$$ on ERP front bushings. How about working on the rear end now?

993 bushings
 

Hello from British Columbia,

This is brilliant. I just recently purchased a 1996 C4S. Dispite a thorough PPI I have recently found out I need new front lower control arms (bushings). Last night I joined Rennlist and the first 993 posting I read is this one.

I plan on running this option by my Porsche mechanic to get his opinion. So where exactly are you located and when do you plan on coming out with the DIY guide?

Cheers,
Bob

Hi Bob, first of all, welcome to Rennlist!

I am in SoCal. Currently working on the DIY guide. I hope to publish it this weekend. Got a few more images to take.

Look up Mike J here on Rennlist, he is in the Vancouver area and very helpful with respect to repairs and mods and advice.

Hey Chris -

Too Cool! You know I'm 'in' for 2 sets. :jumper:

Scott :burnout:

When I did suspension on your black car, I noticed your forward bushing was 'due'-- however, the rivi-blu-beauty with 20k miles? I would doubt it:)

Thanks Chris ... I've been feelin' some woble in the black car ... none in the rivi blue one yet though ... I know you're busy ... but would like to do this ASAP ... would like to take you up on a core exchange or covering the labor ... I drive and also supply the java or the beer ... as the case may be. :D:thumbsup:

Have a great trip to th UK. Say 'HI' to Pam from Lisa & I. :cheers:

Scott :burnout:

PS -- you may have another suspension install customer in Lisa if she decides to take the plunge this year for the rivi blue cab. :thumbup:

Chris,
Awesome work on the bushings!

Will an alignment be required after install?

A good question. In a perfect world, yes. Realistically, perhaps not.

The caster eccentric needs to be marked for its position prior to removing the control arm so that it can be replaced in the same position it was before. Here is where it gets complicated. Since the old foreward bushings naturally have quite a bit of lateral movement, replacing the bushings *could* reposition the arm about its pivot centerline. Changing caster also effects camber and toe. How large could this potential change be? I honestly dont know as I havent spent a lot of time measuring before and after geometry. Or, I should say, the digital inclinometer I used to measure before and after couldnt detect a difference.

Attachment 1234009

Chris,
Second the comments for a great product, especially timely as the rubber bushings in the fleet are becoming, well - quite senior ....

Regards the queries of a need for realignment, my thought would be to press the ball joint out of the hub/spindle - leaving it attached to the LCR with the caster eccentric untouched: as long as the new bushings preserved the coaxial line of the OEM rubber ones, the alignment should remain unchanged.

Uh oh--new toy alert! :D

Chris.

I checked the 964 this morning and there is some movement of the control arm. I have not checked the 993 yet, but since the two cars have the same mileage and are only 2 years apart I assume they will both need replacing.

I am anxiously awaiting the DIY and then we can coordinate after your return from the UK.

Well done, Chris.

I'm in for a set too after your return from the UK. Have a great trip, I have always enjoyed my visits there.

Thanks.

I have complete the DIY guide, but its too large to post. Its a word.doc and need to figure out how post it such that all can have access to it. I dont have an .FTP site. Anyone care to host it for me?

Of course, I will email it to anyone who asks. Also, I will email it to all of those who have purchased, my pleasure.

BTW, the first draft of the DIY was 20megs! Yikes! I found that if you right click any of the images, click format picture, click the picture tab then click the compress button, it will decrease the file size dramatically. Down to 571K in my case.

Chris,
If it's not too late, put me down for one set. Thanks in advance.

You the man, and not a moment too soon, just started noticing some wobble in the lase week or so.

Did TC find that you had worn bushings at the tech session last month???

Wow this is a huge development. Nice going Chris. Three questions:

1. Do you need a press to get the old ones out?

2. Should I expect slightly increased harshness from the front suspension?

3. What is the expected service life of the urethanes?

ok. Newbie question.
What is there to gain and how do you tell if you need it? I have 90K on my 95 cab. I did change the suspension (HandR) last year and replaced the sway bars with the turbo.
Ron

I'm in. E-mail sent.

Thanks Chris!

What is there to gain? ~$900 in your pocket.

There are some recent threads going into lots of detail on symptoms, but if you get that "warped rotor" feeling but your brakes are fine, that's one possible sign.

Same questions here too. Have a slight wobble but suspect brakes which I will be doing here in the next week or so but very interested to hear more about this.

Not sure if Chris is on-line this week as he is in the UK.

In Chris' absence, here are two of his videos on Youtube showing the before (rubber) and after (poly). He pointed out the wheel "chatter" in the first video.

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJton_tGO6w
After: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1l8tBEEu1w

Chris- did you pass around some prototypes at Callas last month?

If so, I didn't know it was you. Either way, well done, and I will be doing business with you!

I use a press with a series of press tools I machined-up at work, but its not necessary. The DIY I wrote uses typical hand tools found in typical home garages.

Since the DIY file is too large to post here, anyone who wishes to see it please email me at tangentautosport@sbcglobal.net and I will send it over. Those who purchased the bushing kit, I will be emailing the DIY shortly

In the few cars I have installed urethane bushings, no real difference other than a slightly more direct feel

The folks who mold these bushings for me use the 95 durometer urethane for all of their suspension bushings and have been doing so since the early 80's without any real trend of wear, so they assure me.

Yessir, that was me:)

I leave this Wednesday and will return the following Tuesday. I should have email access throughout the Motorsports convention.

Good question.

With a large prybar or the like, pry between the control arm and the subframe mount. I have painted a red mark to illustrate the location in which to pry.
Attachment 1234010

While prying, have a look at the forward bushing front side for cracks like this one:
Attachment 1234011

Yes, his car was due. Poor Long_Beach_968's car got beat up upon a little. The good news is, his car just needs a little attention and otherwise a solid example!

Thanks for your answers Chris. I will check my front control arms this weekend. Something's a little loose up there--although it could be the tire rod inners.

I would expect that the urethane would transfer more road harshness to the frame, although not as much as say, Delrin, which I used on several cars when I was racing SCCA Nationals.

That said, it's hard to pass up a repair that saves hundreds and, oh by the way, makes the car a little racier.

Chris Im in. Just sent you a PM.

Chris I can host you some space on my FTP site. Gimme a shout and we'll take care of it.

Are you sure Scott? The file is 6 terra bytes :) I'll send an email with the file attachment.

Thanks!

I'm interested in a set. Any chance for black? I really don't like bling. ;)

Perhaps? :) Sorry, only red.

Thanks Chris, Paypal sent!

Sorry Chris! :icon501: Have a good time.

Thanks PJ! Check out the second hotel we are staying at -- notice the proper car in the drive?
http://www.k-west.co.uk/gallery10.htm

Just got mine - beautiful, and feel like they will last the rest of the life of the car. Best $100 I spent on my 993, and I may not install them right away. I spent $400 each on A arms 85K miles ago.

Got mine too ... NICE!! Thanks Chris. :thumbsup:

Scott :burnout:

Wow.. I'm so on this!!!

I've had a little wander in mine and at 110,000 miles if they are not shot, I'm sure it's coming soon. It sounds like replacements for the rears (are there about 100 of them back there with all those upper, lower and kinematic arms) are on the planing board. Any idea when those might make their way into production?

I'm down for a set as well. I'll send a PM!!

Chris, do you expect to have these available for the long term, or would a wise man snap up a set while the press is hot?

Hey Chris,

Been out of town, but as I mentioned before I'm buying a set. You'll see a PayPal purchase this weekend!!!!

Thanks once again all! You're too nice.. Its freakin' cold here in England!! I'll update you all once I gain better internet access...

I can't speak for Chris but when I see parts like this made by an enthusiast I tend to buy them even if I'm not going to use them immediately, they won't really get stale :-)

(and in my case I need 'em!)

Could someone please email me the DIY instructions at anotherturbo@yahoo.com...I would like to install mine this weekend. Have emailed Chris, but have not received the instructions yet.

Thanks in advance

Got them in the car today. Chris sent me his exchange arms with the bushings already installed, so it was about an hour for the first one and 10 min for the other side. I'm sending him back my cores Monday for whoever's next in line.

Took it for a quick spin and the difference is amazing. The "brake" shudder is gone, and the steering feels much more direct. Never having driven a new 993, I can't compare, but it's a huge upgrade from my 75k mile old bushings.

Ride quality is only slightly changed--maybe a tiny bit more gets through on potholes, but you'd have to be really feeling for it to notice.

Installation was easy. A couple of notes from one amateur to others:

- Set the jackstands at least as high as your torque wrench is long. :D
- When installing the arms, you have to get the bolt next to the ball joint into the hole in the wishbone before you wrestle the inside pivots into place. Get everything finger tight, then install the caster eccentric while there's still plenty of play.
- There are two M12 lock nuts--one for the rear inside pivot and one for the bolt next to the ball joint. What's weird is, one of them takes a 17mm wrench and one is much beefier and takes a 19mm wrench. I lost track of which is which, but given the torque specs and how bad things would be if it loosened, I put the bigger one by the ball joint.

Anyway--thanks, Chris!

I just forwarded them to you!!!!!

DIY please.... TIA: mdistefano101@rogers.com

Mark, will you please forward them along to me too? texas993 at gmail dot com

Thanks!

Just send the DIY guide out to those of you whom I missed sending it to. Sorry about that!

Thanks Jon for the kind words!

Guys, since Chris is traveling, just email me and I can forward it to anyone that needs it :)
Chris, enjoy your vacation and get off the computer.....

Mark - PM sent

Greg, I just forwarded it.

Will your DIY work on a 964??

Chris, letme know if you dont want me forwarding the DIY but I dont think you will mind...

Mark, I just sent a PM. Thanks

Yes, it will cover the 964 as well.

Thanks Mark for forwarding the DIY! I just sent email it to four more folks today. If anyone still needs the DIY, please email me at tangentautosport@sbcglobal.net and I will get it out to you asap.

Thanks again!

Chris - PM sent - Greg

I'm in. PM sent!

Chris,
Is the torquing done with the suspension at full droop, or while loaded? I ask as other cars I've worked on will bind the bushings if everything is torqued while the suspension is extended.

Andreas

That's very important for bushings that deflect with suspension movement like the stock ones. Shouldn't matter with bushings that rotate on a sleeve, as these do. You're torquing the inner sleeve, and the bushing rotates (relatively) freely around it.

Chris, how much time do I have to check the car before these babies are NLA?

Chris - payment sent. thanks again - Greg

I'm in Chris. Email sent.

Chris,
email sent!

Thanks,
Doug

THis is a good question, one perhaps I should have addressed in the DIY guide. Jon is right, you will no longer need to final torque the mounting bolts at ride height. The tophat bushes rotate -somewhat- freely unlike the standard rubber bushings that are bonded to both inner and outer sleeve.

If I run out, another run would only be two weeks time.

If I have missed replying to anyones emails or PM's, please let me know and I will get to them. At the end of the week, I will go over all that I have sent to ensure you all have been replied to.

Thanks Chris!

Andreas

Hey Chris,
Any ETA dates for current orders ? After your England adventure ?
Thanks,
Glenn

Hi Chris,

Just PM'd.

Regards

Got the parts today - wonderful product and I can't wait to install them. Thanks Chris, you da man :bowdown:

Chris, got mine today. Thanks!

Just installed my bushings. Very pleased with the fit. Took me about 6 hours, from jacking the car up to putting it back down on the floor, just taking my time and following Chris' DIY directions. Car already feels more responsive so am really happy with this mod, and it got rid of my shimmy when applying the brakes at freeway speeds. :jumper:

After cleaning of the rubber from the metal inserts I also took some emory cloth and polished them a little to make them nice and smooth, thought this might reduce wear a little, not sure. The second pic shows before and after. And, that grease is the stickiest stuff I've ever seen in my life!!

Nice job roger.. I have mine in a box waiting for me to return from China to install them.. Looks like a fun mod!!

Coleman,

Thanks, it's a cold and rainy day here today, so fired up the heater, put on some tunes and went at it. Had a good time and couldn't be more pleased with the results.

Just took my car for a ride with Chris' bushings. Above 30 mph, it seems that the car is easier to put into understeer situation. I thought the cars tires were cold so I heated them up with italian tune-up and tried again. It may be placebo, but I feel that the steering is more precise, easy to force understeer if I lay into the throttle in hard corners and easier to "correct" steerting situations.
I am extremely happy that Chris provided a great product. My rubber bushes were like wet noodles in comparison. If anyone is worried that the upgrade will make the car less docile - dont worry. I think it provides an improvement in steering when going HARD into corners etc. I cant tell a difference at low speeds. (EDIT - the suspension IS more solid feeling over rough pavement in intersections, almost like the sensation of having new shocks)

A few install notes:
1) Make sure you note how the brake dams mount to the arms. I wasted 1 hour installing them incorrectly, only to find that I had to jack the car up and correct.
2) When separating the caster extension off the arm, keep nut on stud and bang with hammer on nut. It will separate caster arm from control arm. Do not pry aluminum.
3) When heating the bushings, I found that if I heat only the center metal bush, I kept rubber smoking to a minimum.
3) Before cutting old bush metal sleeves off control arms, take drill and plunge into old bush to remove rubber from sleeve. I wasted time trying to use hacksaw to cut away. I was lucky on one arm, the drill bit "walked" the rubber out of sleeve when the bit was close to outer sleeve.
4) I used Jasco paint stripper to loosen the rubber. Left for a few hours and with metal brush.
5) For remnant rubber left on center sleeve, you can use torch to burn off and further loosen the rubber before wire wheel the center bush.
6) Invest in a vise and good punch and chisel set. Dont know how anyone could do this job without those tools. I recommend the craftsman punch and chisel set that is on sale for $34.95 - great selection of different sizes.
7) I also took light sand paper and carefully cleaned the aluminum arm before installing new bushes. There was residue (corrosion) left on arm from old bush sleeve. Probably does not matter, but its a chance to smooth out any nicks from bush removal process.
8) File down any imperfections that may have been left from channel lock teeth when removing steel bush.
9) No need to invest in bench grinder for wire wheeling, get one for a drill...
10) Make note of ridge on forward bush before c-clamping the center steel pivot into new bush. It will save you time when reinstalling arm.
11) No need to invest in 11? 13? mm allen wrench to get caster back where it belongs. Just clamp down outer bolt and the caster essentric will not move on you when you torque it down.

Sorry if some of these points are obvious, but it was things that I learned along the way.

Thanks again Chris for the bush solution. I look forward to seeing you again and buying some future products from you. Congrats! TJ

Chris, got mine today. Look great, thanks.

Thanks for the install notes guys.

Awesome... great info with the install writeup too. Sounds like a lot of work but.. I really need to get these installed on my sled.

RUF is installing on my 964 this week along with my new suspension! If we all like it, I will have them installed on my 993 too.

I will keep you posted Chris.

Thanks Chris, Got mine this week. They look great. Now i have to do some work.........

Got mine on yesterday. Very happy! Thanks Chris. I have Cincy Ron talked into them also after he drove my car :)

Mine were installed on my 964 last week and my shimmy while braking is completely gone. Next is my 993.

Thanks Chris, I got mine friday and how nice to include a little jar of lube and not just a sample like I've seen before in my prothane kits.

Thanks again, install will follow in a couple of weeks.

So if I dont feel a wobble when I break, do I need these nice looking bushings?
How long do the origonal bushings usually last?
since I am doing suspension soon, can I schedule this at the same time?

My previous black 993 didnt do much wobbling despite its 100k miles. The bushings were cracked, however just starting.

The lowest mileage car I did bushings on was a 29k 993 -- they were cracked and the car had the random steering wheel shake but was pretty good on the brakes.

Best is to pry between the arm and its mount looking for such cracking. Without prying, most bushings look completely normal.

In the end, I cannot really say how long the factory bushings last. If your bushings are indeed used-up, replacing them at suspension replacement time might be the smartest choice.

I just had my suspension done. :crying:

Saw something familiar looking at Paragon Products this morning...Good stuff, Chris!

http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...-cabushkit.htm

I just wanted to express my satisfaction regarding Walrod's Finest Bushing Kit. I received my set a few weeks ago, and finally made the time to install the parts today. While I have not driven the car yet, I can say that the fit & finish was perfect and everything went together exactly as described. In true form, I spent extra time cleaning the arms and polishing the bores (pictures to follow). A few hints:

- Lacquer thinner is THE solution for cosmoline, bar none. I previously slaved for hours using WD40, only to find that thinner will dissolve this nasty stuff in seconds flat (thanks for the hint, Neil). Naturally, I would not recommend using it on painted parts - only aluminum castings. Since my car takes regular baths in 303 Protectant, the newly-cleaned arms received a dousing for good measure.

- When using a hacksaw to cut a groove in the large bushing shell, be extremely careful not to overdo it. In my haste to forge ahead, I did make a few 'marks' in the bushing bores, but nothing that convinced me to replace the arms :)

- Once the inner sleeves have been removed from the rubber bushings, let them sit in a bath of lacquer thinner for an hour or two. Doing so will allow the rubber remnants to literally fall free of the sleeves.

- The hub-end of the a-arm does not need to be attached first during re-assembly. Locate the front sleeve in the suspension carrier and then rotate the arm around to snug the rear into the carrier ears. I found that it helped to compress the rear bushings with a small c-clamp while shoving it home. Insert the bolts and then guide the stud into the ball joint hole - you should be able to snick it together at this point.

- Make sure the forward steel bushing is correctly clocked once the arm is back in position. Since the steel sleeves are now free to rotate, the forward one can move while manhandling the a-arm. The casting nub should fit into the relief - verify with a light from below.

- Chris supplies an adequate amount of grease - I found that I used every bit of it during assembly. Naturally, you'll have squeeze-out when pressing the bushings into position.

All in all, not a difficult job. Just make sure to accurately mark the castor eccentric in relation to the ball joint attachment (I used a pin punch) before undoing the nuts. Removing the inner sleeves is very easy after a few minutes with a torch, but getting the old bushing sleeves removed from the bores without scaring the aluminum proved all but impossible. I took my time smoothing these ‘marks’ by using various grades of emery cloth, Scotchbrite pads, and fine steel wool.

This is a great product at a very fair price - thanks Chris! :cheers:


Andreas

Required pics - as promised :)


Attachment 1234012

Attachment 1234013


Andreas

OOOOOOHHHHHHHH AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH. I took mine down to a machine shop to get the bushings out. I figured it would be the best money I ever spent. They got them out with an air hammer. Gouged the crap out of the races. Great work for a place called "Precision Automotive"! Chris Walrod to the rescue! I should have replacement arms Friday. Thanks again Chris, you really came through for me.

In need of some advice. I started the disassembly yesterday. The front center bush came out relatively easily, and so did the rubber and sleve.

The rears however have not. Following the same procedure, heated, twisted with chanel locks. The outer ring (that i grab with the centerlocks) spins freely but the bush in the rubber is staying put.

Am i doing something wrong? is there an additional step i am missing?

Any help is appreciated.

Regards

Let me see if I remember:

Inner sleeve: Heat and stwisted outward with channel locks.
Outer sleeve: Chisel the edge until it's seperated from the arm. When the seperation is far enough, spray plenty of wd40 in between and grap with the channel locks and twisted it loose. Repeat for other end.

I am surprised, the front one is the hard one to remove (with hack saw).

I got my bushings last week from Chris -- they look perfect, and Chris was a pleasure to work with. Looking forward to installing them.

Try reheating the aft center pivot bushes again -- this time a little more heat just passed the point of smoke. Then try to twist and pull once again. Sometimes they require a little more effort to remove. Make sure you only heat the center pivot bush, not the aluminum casting.

Thanks all for the nice words!

Think there'd be any chance of getting some to Texas by Friday?

RT

Chris,
I took the Dung Beetle out for its maiden voyage after installing your bushings and completing a ton of maintenance items. Without a doubt, the front end feels far more secure and planted, and the car as a whole, feels more solid.

Huge thumbs up!


Andreas

Thanks, A little more heat and a little more forcefull twisting and pulling did the job.......Job Complete, rear wheel bearings then off the jack stands and we should be good for a test drive.

Thanks Again.......

Just finished installing my bushings last night. If the snow was gone I'd be out for a test drive. Maybe tomorrow.

A couple of notes/suggestions:

1) Getting that first metal sleeve out in the rear made me cringe with ever chisel strike. But it worked perfect, no problem.

2) For the other half of the rear bushing, I found one of my sockets was exactly the right diameter to punch it out. A 24mm socket fit perfectly in the hole, right up against the bushing. Two taps and it was out. That saved me from a bunch of additional cringing.

3) For the front bushing I made two cuts in the steel sleeve, about 3/8" apart. I got close to going all the way through the sleeve, but stopped just short. Then I used my punch to peel that small section out of the way. Bushing fell right out.

4) I followed a previous (good) suggestion to use lacquer thinner to help remove rubber remnants off the sleeves. I went between the lacquer thinner bath and carbonizing the leftovers with the torch. Two times through the sleeves were ready for polishing.

5) The supplied sticky grease is the only substance that I dislike more than CV grease. But it worked like a charm, no issues except there's some stuck in my hair, right next to the CV grease that's still there from last year.

6) It's actually possible to fully assemble a side using the arm from the opposite side. I'm sure the arms are marked, but it was late when I got to reassembling. I missed it. So I got to do it over.

7) Bushings were high quality and fit perfectly. Instructions were spot on.

Easy enough. Thanks Chris!

I just got back from a drive (finally!) and I can not tell you how impressed I am with the feel of the front end with the new bushings.

My car only has 29,000 miles on it, but I though this would be a fun project over the Winter. Even if you don't think you need these, get them. The difference is just amazing.

Chris, thanks for your help, thanks for the great product and thanks for selling them at such a great price. Best hundred bucks you will EVER spend on your car.

Thomas

Tom,
The difference is certainly noticeable. Did you use a different shop to press out the bushings, or did you give it a go at home?

Andreas

Chris sent me a replacement set that had the bushings removed. I think I probably owe him a kidney or something,

Maybe sway bar bushings next, Chris?

I'd vote for tightening up the rear suspension... not sure what that would entail, but that's what I'm looking for next.

Any plans?

Hi Thomas, I am glad to hear this result!! Also glad the replacement arms worked as well. Thanks for the nice words!!!

I would love to dive into the rears -- I need a donor control arm to hack up first. Still looking.

My 951 is occupying the garage while I wait to afford the track stuff it needs so I sent the bushings in with my car when it went to the shop for an oil change. 4.75 hours to do the job, which seems reasonable and the alignment appears to have been retained. My mechanic is conservative when it comes to street cars and did make sure I understood his prior experience with aftermarket bushings (which jived with mine) but I'm willing to try these out on a daily driver & we'll see how long they go without squeaking :-)

First impressions are that the random shimmies are gone and car finally feels as planted as my old one did, which had only 7,700 miles and 3 years on it when I got it. Now on to the durability test!

Thanks, Chris!

I just replaced the driver side on my car. However, I can see a problem with one side of the front bushing being exposed, going dry, and can cause squeaking.

Posted a separate thread on this. "Potential problem with replacement control arm bushing".

I just finished replacing the bushings. This REALLY helped tighten up the steering and feel of the car! This is a definite must do mod.

However, it took me over 10 hours to do this job.

I was among the first to buy and will probably be last to install.
Is there a write up somewhere in these 10 pages. On a scale of 1 to 10 in diffculty, where does this rank?
Is 10 hrs representative? If so, I'd have to double that.

Hi David, here is a link to the DIY guide.

Cheers.

I installed these bushings over the weekend. They are a big improvement. My car has 65K miles and the factory bushings were worn. The front end is much more composed, focused and has a tighter feel. Prior to installing I believed my front shocks were shot. The front end had an unsettled characteristic going through tight turns. It also bounced (i.e. pogo stick) after going over small dips or bumps at parking lot speeds. After this upgrade, the bad characteristics were eliminated. This is a great upgrade with tremendous value. Highly recommended. Thanks Chris!

How long did it take you?

Mine took maybe 3-4 hours but I took my time and cleaned the arms up really good. I am going to help Cincy Ron do his and Im thinking I can do it in 2.

5-6 hours. The second arm went faster than the first.

From 2 to 5-6 hrs is quite a delta. Someone earlier said almost 10 hrs.
Must be beer breaks in there.

Took me probably 3-4 hours total. If I did it again, it would go much faster.

anymore of these bushings for sale I will need a set

Yes, they are available. I replied to your email this afternoon but it bounced back. I resent it just a few minutes ago. PM me if you dont receive it.

Chris
I just waded through all the posts to see if there was any tecchy type stuff comparing performance of your bushings compared to stock ?

I have a Porsche retrofit kit on my tt which is basically what was fitted to the 450PS 993 turbo S in Europe. The kit was developed by Weissach and contains lots of bits including new track control arms. The TC arms in the kits according to the part numbers are from the 993 Carrera RS ie 993 341 017 80 etc

My question is: Firstly I am presuming the only difference between the RS arms and the stock arms are the type of rubber used and then secondly how does your material compare to stock rubber and/or the RS type rubber ?

Are there any ways of measuring this to put it into numbers ?

Cheers

One way would be to determine the durometer reading of your rubber bushings and compare it to the durometer reading of urethane. Urethane is much greater in stiffness.

The real difference being the urethane bushing (forward position) is solid whereas the factory forward bushing is what is termed a 'cavitiy bushing'. Cavity bushings are often times used in motormounts since they are designed to be more compliant, or offer more movement, in one axis, stiffer in the other two.

In the case of the 993 front lower control arm, because of where the cavities are located within the bushing, the movement is designed to be in the Y direction. X being longitudinal, Z being vertical.

Y axis deflection allows front toe and caster changes as the bushing deflects (car hits pot holes as an example). As designed these rubber bushings are fine but as the age, they crack, degrade, and begin to tear away from their steel outer sleeves. This is where the random steering wheel wobble and brake judder comes from. Of course, there are other sources of these wobbles and judders.

I will measure the durometer reading of the standard rubber bushings and report back.

You mean axial? So with stock bushings the A-arm is allowed to move left and right, but not forward and backward or up and down?

I got my bushings installed last week and over the weekend / this week put 2500 miles on them on a drive to california - all i can say is WOW - what a difference!!!

Thanks Alot Chris, fantastic upgrade to the front end.

Thank you..... Is there any way we can find out what the difference in the RS bushings are, it would be good to know where yours fit in the deflection scale - does anyone have any spare lying around :)

I dont know what that would be. I do understand the only differences between the RS arm and the standard one is the aft bushings, not so much the forward ones. Bill V has been doing research himself on the subject, maybe he'll chime in.

I will say Urethane will have a higher durometer reading than any rubber used for automotive control arm bushings.

These Urethane bushings read 95 durometer.

X being longitudinal, Y lateral and Z vertical. These are the only vehicle dynamic axis system I am used to using.

You are correct about the direction of potential movement with the standard bushings.

For those of you who have had a shop install Chris' bushings, how much did they charge?

Did the bushings tonight, but haven't had a chance to drive the car -- it's pouring rain out, so I wouldn't get much from a test drive. They fit great.

A couple of pointers on the install:

- The hardest part is pounding out the stock bushing sleeves. Make sure you cut completely through the steel sleeve before attempting to pound them out. And have a BFH, a vice, and a good set of punches and chisels on hand. Reminds me of when I installed monoballs in the trailing arms of my old track 911.

- The control arms will fit on either side -- but they are specific to each side! You've got one on, and you suddenly realize that the ball joint bolt and caster eccentric want to bolt in from the top, instead of the bottom. Ask me how I know. (But then again, I'm a bonehead.) I'll post an update tomorrow when I get a chance to go for a spin.

These bushings rock! Thanks Chris. The front end is tight again and very responsive. We also did struts, sways, and tie rods at the same time. What a difference. Thanks Chris - great product.

Hey Noah, that's funny because I did the exact same thing... see my pg 9 post (#127)... item 6 covers it, caused mainly by lack of sleep (it was 2am when I was reassembling)

LOL, I don't have such a good reason...I was just hurrying, and didn't even think to check whether each arm is right or left handed.

BTW, I've driven the car a bunch since doing the bushings...they're great. No more high-speed steering wheel wiggle under braking, and the car's handling feels ever so slightly tighter and more responsive.

Noah, I'm glad to hear the bushing upgrade got rid of the high speed steering wiggle under braking. I have the same issue. I've got the bushings sitting here, I just need to bust a move and get them done!

Ron, any of the next few saturdays works for me or you can fedex the arms up here and I will do them and send them back.

My shop charged for 5 hours labor all-in. All I can say is wow. Not only the steering wheel wiggle under braking is gone (which is why I ordered the bushings in the first place), but the steering is now very tight and more responsive. This is a great mod'/improvement.

Great to hear the good results!

Chris,

Those bushings look fantastic!

I am getting ready to do my install. But one question. Did anyone use an 11mm or 13mm hex key to get the a-arms off and on. It sounds like you just clamp it down and it won't spin when you torque them down, but what about getting them off. I wouldn't even know where to find those size hex keys.

5 hours seems like a lot. That would be $400 to $600. Is this what others have paid?

The install itself doesn't take 5 hours. That sounds like an end-to-end job...remove control arms, fight like hell for an hour or two to get the old bushings OUT, clean, grease and install new CW bushings in control arms, and then re-install control arms on the car. I had mine done by THE Men themselves, (Chris and Robin) and can attest to the improvements, which are immediately noticable/felt. Fof3, since you're in the LA area you could probably book a time/date with them.

Well I finally finished pounding out the bushing's and cleaning them up. I plan on installing them tomorrow and taking the car for a spin. I'm surprised I still have a thumb. I probably hit it 50 times instead of the punch.

The DIY was spot on, the parts look great! But is there any other option getting the bushings out. Is cutting and pounding the **** out of them the only real option.

...cutting and pounding...yeah, pretty much...

Yep.


Andreas

how i can order and where i have to pay?

-Jaak

To all bush(ing) wackers. I have seen other such bushings for sale in catalogs that stated these type will add road noise and vibration due to their rigid nature. Any notice of that much increase in the driver's seat? If not, sign me up also.

I haven't been able to tell any increase in road noise. I wouldn't care if there was, but I don't think there is. So far, I have found no down side at all to the modification. Thanks again Chris.

These may add a very slight anount of noise but I dont notice it. If they do it is minimal. They arent loud like aftermarket swaybars that need greased. Im certain that you will be very happy with them!

No additional noise that I can tell. Well worth the upgrade in steering responsiveness.

After a first bad expérience with Powerflex on the 964, I bought your kit from Carnewal for the 993.
Did the job last night, took me about 5 hours.
Great product, very happy with the result ;)

The grease furnished is awesome :D

Sorry to ask but is an alignment necessary after installation of the bushings? Also, any chance of doing the job with the car jacked up or do you need a lift? Thanks.

You can do the job with the car jacked up, no problem !!
And I think doing an alignment is better, especially on the 993 ;)

Another shout out for Chris on these bushings. I had PSS10's installed a couple of weeks ago on the Turbo R and had the new bushings installed as preventative maintenance. They are awesome and so is Chris' service.

I have now had them installed on one 964 and one 993 with excellent results.

My symptoms are slight wandering on the road until the car warms up. When warmed up I guess the parts expand and the symptom goes away.

Thanks for the info on these. Will order a set.

I replaced mine with the car on four stands. Quite easy actually.

I did not re-align the car after this - just be sure to mark the castor bolt precisely and you should be fine.


Andreas

Put these in yesterday. Took me longer than expected..... put on one of the front urethane bushings backwards :banghead: - had to figure out a way to push it back out.

Wow, it makes a noticeable difference with the car's steering response - sharper and tighter! Thanks Chris. :thumbup:

Mike,

I take it you bought your kit from Carnewal? Thanks.

Actually, I got the bushings through Paragon. At first, I was going to get them through Chris directly, but he was on a trip and I needed them in a hurry.

Thanks for the reply. Just wanted to make sure you were installing the same bushing as previously discussed. Don't want to miss a better option. So, increased road vibration or noise? Thanks glad to see you chose the color you did. Nice!

quasr, I haven't noticed any increased vibration or noise. Have you gotten your set yet?

Replaced the bushings last night and did a 4 wheel alignment. Took me 5 hours with a couple of coffee breaks. Also pinned the tie rods to eliminate the flex in the rubber isolators.

The old bushings where cracked and it was not possible to align the wheels as they flexed to much.

Chris tipped me about Gert having them in stock, contacted Gert and the bushings where in Norway less than a couple of days later !!! GREAT SERVICE ! :)

The car felt MUCH more precise after this operation :)
Thanks for a great product ! :)

Now of to swap to a 3 spoke steering wheel . . .

damn slope . . .

Chris,

Bushings arrived today...many thanks!

bushings
 

Chris,

I want to purchase a set of your front bushings for my 993tt

Email sent.

Please email me the DIY link

And right back at ya.

Thanks!

Chris: PM sent thanks
jack

Chris,

I hope you don't mind but I just ordered it from Paragon. Is that cool?

No worries:)

Installed the new busings and they look and work great! I ran a wire wheel over the entire aluminum arms. Now I need to replace my stock turbo suspension then align.

Thanks Chris

When are some rear bushings coming??? :)

Just wanted to add my results on Chris' control arm bushings.

I had some initial trouble taking off the forward (larger) bushings. What I found helpful was to use a coping saw to cut as much of the old rubber away from the metal bushing. This allowed me to better see the hacksaw cuts and it also relieved some pressure on the whole unit. Once the rubber was removed and the two hacksaw cuts completed, the hole punch did the trick with a couple of hits. Piece of cake at that point.

The aft bushings eventually will come out by using Chris' chisel technique, but you do need to keep working around the edges to incrementally move the bushing. It takes time, but it will finally let go. I used a socket that fit snuggly inside where the first bushing was removed to punch out the second aft pushing. A couple of hits with a hammer on a wood-protected socket did the trick.

Overall performance results are excellent...the new bushings corrected the braking wobble I was getting as I slowed through 50 mph and the suspension is a touch firmer. Nicely done, Chris!

I took out the front bushings the same as Joe. Get as much of the rubber out as you can so you can see the metal. Cut two parallel lines down the bushing about the width of your chisel. No need to go all the way through, just close. then chisel between the two cuts to peel the strip of metal like opening a sardine can.

I like using a cold chisel and a three pound sledge. A little tough on the hands when you miss.

I love the results. Can't tell if there is any increas in noise or vibration. Got an alignment and it drives better than ever.

G'day Chris,
Just in case my email didn't go through, could you send me some info on the Bushings cost + shipping to Australia? adamvfr@iinet.net.au

Cheers
Adam

Hi Chris,
This sounds like a great upgrade. I'm sure that my '94 C2 needs them by now although only 55000 kms on the clock. The rubber must have perished long ago.
i will have to have them installed by a shop as I don't have any tools for this job and even if I did I would not be capable.
Can you send a set to me in South Africa? Fedex would be fine. If you can give me your bank details I'll arrange a transfer. Or I can pay by Mastercard.
Hope it's not going to be a hassle for you to do.
Best
Trevor

I installed a set of Walrod's Finest Bushings for another Rennlister on Saturday. The install went fine and was a bit easier than when I did the same to my 993.


For the large bushing:
Once I heated and removed the center sleeve, I carefully used a Sawzall to cut around the outer sleeve - the entire rubber bushing came out as one.

Using the same Sawzall, I made two parallel grooves in the outer sleeve. A few whacks with an old wood chisel and the piece peeled up, allowing the sleeve to slide out.

For the small bushing:
I found that a 1" deep socket is a perfect fit within the a-arm bore. Once you've gone ballistic on the first half of the small bushing, using a socket to persuade the other half out is easy. Unfortunately, I purchased that socket today....


Chris - once again, this is a fantastic product!



Andreas

Chris,

Can we still get these directly from you?

Since I just did the suspension in my car, and getting ready to take it for an alignment, I might as well replace the bushings before doing the alignment.

PM sent.

Update: Order placed. Thank you Chris!!

Chris,
Could you E-Mail me the DIY for your control arm bushings.
shakin123@comcast.net
Thanks

Sure, check your email.

Chris, have you had any thoughts of doing the rear bushings? I know 9m has some but the weak dollar makes them somewhat pricey.

Cheers.

RT

Colin is working on the 964 trailing arm bushing, IIRC. Completely different than the 993 rear lower control arm. But yes, the 993 rear lower control arm is doable. I need a sample arm to design the bushing and develop a process to retrofit them.

Chris-

Since I went ERP, I can send you one in a couple weeks....?

Chris,

Thanks again for supply the bushings...installation was not too bad and my old ones were shot!

Konichiwa,

Thanks for the nice words -- great to hear!!

Just got the bushings installed this weekend. It's a bit of grunt work but everything went pretty smoothly with the DIY instructions. It's almost impossible not to mar bores a touch getting the large rear bushing out. The original 68k mile bushings were in fine shape. I hope to feel the difference along with the new PSS10's and H&R sways later in April.

Thanks Chris! Another happy camper. Vibration at 50mph is gone. I wimped out and did the exchange and installation was a cinch. At least now I have a brand new torch in the box waiting for something to do.

This is great news! These things do a lot of good, me thinks.

Ok, so this is beyond what I can do as a DIY in my cramped Queens garage. At least putting in the bushings myself is. Couple Qs:
1) Are these still available (PM sent to CW)
2) It seems the core exchange is ok from a DIY, and maybe best to budget an alignment to be safe.
3) It seems taking the parts to the shop is about 5 hrs = $5-600 for replacing the bushings. Thoughts on how long it should take them to do an exchange, if that is still an option from Chris?

Thanks,

Just returned your email, thanks.

Core exchange program is still available, as well as the kits themselves.

Chris,
I've done a few of these over the last year. Maybe I can become your East Coast Bushing Replacer....


:)


Andreas

Curious as to how these compair to monoballs I installed in my last 993tt. We installed only one in each lower control arm and left the other stock. It was very firm yet quiet. Can't remember which one we did I think it was the large one.

Any reports of noise and sqeeking yet??

Great work Chris

I was an early adopter and have put at least 10K miles on since I did the bushings...no problems whatsoever, definitely no squeaking.

Me too. Great steering feel and no noise.

Good to hear, indeed.

A rear kit is being trial fitted now. The rear lower control arm is a bit more complicated due to its articulation so we're developing a three piece urethane monoball type of joint.

I just emailed you.
chuck

Anyone do the core exchange and have the mechanic mount them? Curious as to how much $$ savings and if it is worth it vs. just getting the bushing kit and handing them over to the mechanic, or hand the cores with new bushing over. I read the DIY and this is not something I'm interested in doing myself given my workshop facilities and tolerance for a PITA in my life right now.

Anyone have a DIY on the control arm/a-arm removal install?

I had my shop (RUF Dallas) do the bushings on my 964 without core exchange. And did core exchange on my 993. RUF and I preferred the core exchange, it was easier for everyone. Cheaper for me. And Chris sends you some very shiny control arms!

Chris can provide a DIY.

Good luck.

I saw the DIY for the bushing change, but not the arm removal / install. Anyone have one?

I don't won't to get the '95 vs '96, '97, '98 rear suspension argument started again, but has anyone just taken the time to measure the lengths and angles of the '95 parts against the later years. surely, if there was a change, it can be measured. I thought it was a given that there was a change until I read all the posts from folks that said that there was not a change.

I love when old threads come back. Are core exchanges still being done? If/when I ever get the title issues resolved on the 95 I will be putting in a H&R/Bilstein suspension so this will be a while in there project. Engine needs some new seals (valve covers) so I may get lazy and sell it "as is".

Yes, they are still available on an exchange basis -- sorrry I havent replied to this thread until now, just busy up here at Mosport this week for the ALMS race.

PM sent!

Hi Chris, are the front control arm bushings still available for an exchange ?

Patrick
1996 C4S

I know I'm bringing back an older thread but it is worth it. The original rubber bushings have a finite life and mine were certainly showing their age. We will all need to do this at some time. Chris produces a wonderful product and was very prompt in getting them out to me. I'll be helping a fellow R'lister install a set on his car when he gets them in. My dad's 964 will come soon after that.

If Andreas is going to be the East Coast Rep, I'll be the Midwest Rep. Chris, have your people call my people.

On another note, I'd like to hear about any updates on the rear bushings.

+993 to everything said!!!!!! Best bang for the buck improvement (Stage II's close second)
:biggulp:

Safety
 

Chris...I have a technical question that I hope you can answer. On removing the front bushing from the left side control arm I used a hack saw as advised to remove the tension on the sleeve. Unknowingly I began to saw through on one side and scored a cut into the arm about 1-11/2 mm deep at the end, and tapering off by the midpoint. :crying:
Do I need to replace the control arm from a safety standpoint or can I drive with it like this? Here is a drawing...I did not take a picture.
Thanks

Andy

That is going to create a weak spot in the arm, If it were me I would be replacing the arm. Chris may have another take on this but it looks iffy.....

I'd say the same thing. You would hate to go into a corner and have that thing snap. I'd look at replacing.
John

Am in the garage at the moment getting ready to do the bushings and don't have the instructions. I did a set 2 years ago so I think I can wing it but if someone has the DIY instructions they could email me I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

sent

assuming your email address hasn't changed... you should have it now.

Got 'em!! Thank you sir!!

Hey Chris, any word on the rears...?

Hi

I have not read all the posts in this thread and apologise if this is a hijack, but rear bushes in rubber and two different hardnesses are available from Elephant Racing. They also do front ones which are identical to the originals. Also in a sport hardness if you prefer. I have fitted the whole set (in sport hardness) to my car and they are a great product.

Berni

I've replaced a number of these over the last few years, messy but satisfying. :)

Still waiting on the paperwork from Walrod so that I can firmly cement my 'Rep' status. :)


Andreas

is this still available? If so, i need some new bushings!

"Rep" = Reprobate? :icon107:

Yes, they are in stock, the fronts that is.

Rear kits are still in the prototype stage. Need time, more time!! :)

Yes, correct.


Andreas

Still waiting for my paperwork also. I've done a few and it gets easier and easier the more I replace them.


John

i admit i am being lazy here but what are the benefits to replace the front bushings? are the 993 bushing prone to breakage?

Remember folks, Chris has a baby at home AND works full time.

The forward bushing from the factory is a cavity bushing -- they tear or rip as the center pivot tophat bushing is fixed to the rubber and the car - so with time, no so much mileage, they tear. Many times they will look fine until one flexes the bushing ultimately showing the cracks / tears.

We've done some really low mileage 993's who were already due, for example a 15k miles C2S. Amazing really.

:):)

Very true. Just did mine this weekend. What a difference. At a brisk pace the car was almost scary, now it's planted. Great upgrade!

Stilll happy with mine as well, one year later. The shop that did the install warned me that the car might get some squeak/squeal after a while, especially given all the rain here, but I have not had any issue. (The shop didn't know the Walrod bushings specifically, so I think they made the caveat based on experience with other, similar kits.)

Not counting sway bars, a 993 has 6 rubber bushes in the front suspension and 14 rubber bushes in the rear. They are all subject to deterioration w/ time.

for track or more sporting road use the 4 shock tops are often replaced w/ monoballs. These are fairly well protected from road debris and will generally live a long life there.

there 4 rear side mounts, these are often replaced w/ 4 solid aluminum bushes especially on lowered track cars though it is also a great choice for a street car. there are no maintainance issues w/ these either.

the others are all exposed to road debris and present a different sort of problem

the other 14 bushes are all on the inner or pivot end of the various suspension arms, as such they must
1) be free to rotate through their arcs
2) maintain their design alignment
3) transmit road forces to the chassis

the choices for these 16 bushes are;
1) monoballs - these are great on a track car, very rigid, very little friction, but will be subject to more deterioration from road debris than the other choices, more than most street owners will put up w/

2) polyurethane - the steel shafts rotate inside the p/u bush, they are almost as rigid as monoballs, but they do require lubrication as the p/u and steel have a lot of friction w/o lube. When the lube dries up they will squeek.

3) rubber - this is what the factory used. It functions by deformation not rotation so it doesn't squeek, doesn't require any maintainance and has no friction. The nit to pick is that the factory uses a softer material than many would like except on the RS models where they used a harder or sport rubber compound.

To me the harder RS rubber is the way to go for the except on a pure race car.

excellent info, thanks! i'll be placing my order soon :)

I am guessing that the lubrication that Chris uses on his bushings this will not be an issue. Unless you happen to drive through a puddle of WD40.

Nothing against Chris product, I just wouldn't want p/u bushes on my car and feel that other, perhaps less knowledgeable people, ought to be aware of the alternatives before jumping on the RL lemming bandwagon. I've seen way too much of that.

Which alternatives are better?

After reading 17 pages I am in for a set. Payment sent. Thanks Chris

JMO
monoballs for a dedicated track car
harder RS rubber for a dual purpose or street car

solid sides and monoball shock top mounts for any track use

In the interest of future knowledge, who sells the harder rubber versions, what sort of cost, and how hard are they to install?

I believe Elephant Racing offers these.

Thanks Chris. After installing two of your kits I would find it hard to imagine the rubber ones could be any better. The transformation in road feel and responsiveness is excellent and I've not noticed any increase in harshness.

Thanks for the nice words!

Here is a link to the rubber bushings:
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...erbushings.htm

can these be installed DIY with standard tools or will need a press or special tools?

For the rubber bushings, a press is needed for installation.

Chris, Would the warn front control arm bushings give you a shimmy at 55? I have had my wheels balanced 3 times and they are perfect and true. I put a large screw driver between the frame and the front part of the control arm and there is more play that I would thik there should be. BTW 46,000 miles.

Thanks , Mike

Oh, BTW....still in limbo on the tranny...House has not sold... argggggggg

Hi Mike, Actually, yes -- this is the primary symptom -- also random brake pedal judder is a secondary result of torn or cracked bushings.

As Chris says Elephant Racing has the rubber bushes for front and rear

I pressed mine on(only the fronts, oe RS was used in back) w/ a bench vise & socket.

The thing about rubber and what may be causing an issue for all of those that have lowered cars is that since the rubber bushes have no moving parts they must be indexed to the ride height. If stock rubber bushes are not reindexed(and nobody does) then they will be stressed beyond their design limit and will subsequently deteriorate much more rapidly

Just something to think about on a lowered car.

Bill brings up a great point and one that is overlooked often. Once a ride height change has been made, one needs to loosen the front wishbone mountings, set the car at ride height and re-tighten. Technically speaking, the same should be done for the rears when using rubber bushings.

There is stored energy (i.e. additional and unwanted spring rate) in the bushings once a ride height has been changed, in a static state. Dynamically, there isnt a way to get around the stored energy in rubber bushings.

That works for the rear arm bushings, but on the front control arm the rear bushing is keyed to the subframe so it cannot be adjusted to match a lowered car.
The RS front control arms come with the bushing inserted at a different angular position to accomodiate the lowering.
Mike

That's not an issue w/ the Elephant bushes

It can actually -- only because the femal slot is much larger than the male tang and at that pitch radius, not much room is needed.

Thanks Chris.... Can you PM me with the cost of exchange arms for the TT?
This will now be on the list..

Chris - can I use the front bushings I bought from you and the rears from Elephant? I was thinking since I got the fronts I should replace the rears even though mine seem okay. Any advice?

Sure, you are already using them w/ your existing rear bushes, the Elephants are just newer and optionally stiffer as on the RS

Chris- Had the same issue on mine with the shimmy at 55. I noticed it on a recent test drive of a 98 26k car as well. It seems this OEM bushing deteriorates over time regardless of use. I had mine replaced with new OEM arms and all is well again. I am still pondering sending my originals to you for a stiffer bushing. Do you have the OE harder (sport) rubber ones as well as the p/u bushings? Or are they one in the same part?

Hi

I just wanted to say to those of you who think that the rear control arm bushes may have deteriorated in the same way that the fronts have that mine were fine after 185k miles. I changed them anyway because I wanted the harder RS spec bushes on there. They are a lot harder than the standard ones but have not affected the ride quality adversely.

Berni

I'm on the elephant racing site, and all the bushings I see are for the front. I have already installed Chris' front bushings, so that fix has already happened. I'm still looking to stiffen up the rear end, and while Tarret toe links helped, I'm looking for something more. Am I missing something on the Elephant site?

When I did my front A arm bushes they didn't have them on their web page either. Call and talk to Chuck Morland.

I hadn't experienced any of the symptons described in earlier threads, but my car had seemed to lose its cornering 'edge'.
I did the test described in the magazine article, prying between the control arm and mount, drivers side was fine but passenger side was mushy with lots of movement.

from up on jack stands, control arms off, shipped to chris and back, reinstalled to test drive took about a week.
I used the time to finally replace my oil fan resistor, paint the lug nuts and change the fuel filter.

the difference is amazing, even my winter tires feel more connected to the road.
my car has 47k miles on it, so the rubber bushings didn't wear out from use, they just got old.
a highly recommended improvement.

plus my control arms came back very clean, sand/bead blasted or something to make them look brand new.
thanks chris for developing this fix/improvement.

Chris.....you have a PM

Can someone send me the DIY instructions - to "guswf@comcast.net"
Greatly appreciate -Thks
Gus

Just emailed it to ya.

Please help me decide on bushings
 

Please help me decide on bushings! :confused: After extensive searching, speaking with suppliers and reading every post I could find about bushings, I still can't decide which ones to use? My car is for 'fun' and occasional track days (mostly on the Nürburgring) so daily comfort is not a priority, and the roads in Germany (where I live) are very good. However, I do need to drive to tracks which are as far as 400kms away. I have KW V3 struts and will be also installing RS sway bars. I have narrowed my choices down to these four options...

1. ERP 'sport' hardness rubber
2. Walrod PU (According to Gert Carnewal in Belgium his exchange arms use these bushings?) http://www.carnewal-europe.com/main.htm
3. Powerflex PU (very popular in EU). These have stainless steel sleeves. http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/...%29-125/1.html
4. Stock rubber, refurbished arms: http://www.hartech.org/parts.html

Also, should I do the whole car (front and back) at once or can I just do the front wishbones (A-arms) now and the rear next year? How will the car handle if I have new PU upfront and old rubber in the back?

I changed the bushing with all the wishbone attached OE.....fu..k!
they are so expansive

Chris,Is there any chance,for the future,to get your DIY instruction?Do you ship them to Italy?
I hope they'll last at least 4 years!!!!!

tx in advance

forgot just in case you think it's worth to help a lost italian:bowdown:

checco_barberini@libero.it

cheers

Alex,
Just made a decision on the same dilemma and chose the Walrod set up as it is both firm and grooved to hold the grease in longer. I did not see any grooves on the Powerflex, The ERP are three times the price and OEM is not an option worth revisiting.

Hi LAT -thanks for the advice... btw, I'm also Canadian (but living in Germany now).

The Powerflex don't have grooves (AFAIK) but they due use steel sleeves which is supposed to make a difference.

Did you change all your bushings at the same time?

Alex, hello fellow Canadian.

I've had the pleasure of driving a couple of laps on the 'Ring, its an eye opener to say the least. I also had a ride as a passenger with a very experienced driver and that was like a carnival ride plus.

I am in the process of buying the refurbished units from Chris and having them installed. I am only planning on doing the fronts as the rears I am told last a very long time.

The kit I offer uses the factory steel sleeves.

However, I do have a prototype set of machined 4340 steel front tophats and aluminum aft tophats that I will be testing shortly in my car.

Hi Chris,

Can you confirm the Gert from Carnewal uses your bushings? This is a much easier process for me rather than ordering from the US. BTW, Gert says that Cargraphic in Germany also uses them?

Thx.

Yes, Gert is my EU dealer. I know Gert works closely with Cargraphic and at one point they were supposed to be using them, but I honestly dont know the outcome of that.

The busings will very soon be available in black for color as well.

Alex, it's time to buy them. I'll get you a ride in my car when you're around the next time and I can tell you it's the right choice.
Ed

For a street car use rubber, RS or the sport ERP, for a track car use monoballs all around.

If you can only afford one end do the back, that's where most of the issues come from, the front just helps turn in under track conditions, the back is always working. Solid sides in back are also a big +.

On a track I honestly can't tell the difference between all RS/sport ERP and monoballs, you need a lap timer to see the difference. On the street the sport rubber is also great, lots of control, no mush yet compliant enough for the beat up roads around here.

Just installed the bushings i got from Chris two weeks ago in my 1995 cab with 64,000miles. Car feels great no more wobble when braking, front end tighter, feels like i have new suspension. (doing shocks and springs this week). Install wasnt too bad only thing was i had to cut out the steel bushing sleaves even on the rear bushings as after an hour of pounding with the chisel they moved out 1/4 inch but still were not coming out. To clean the control arms up i bought a cheap ($20) sand blaster from a local auto parts store (princess auto). Hooked it up to my air compresor and blasted them clean they looked like new when i was finished. would HIGHLY RECOMMEND these bushings.

I just finished doing my car over the weekend. I did not cut the metal sleeves on the large bushings. I just heated the Al around the bushing and pounded it out using a large socket slightly smaller than the bushing dia. It only took a couple of minutes. The car drives fantastic!

I definitely need to do the fronts as I have the tell tale signs of wear. It sounds like you're saying I should go for the ERP bushings at 'sport' hardness?

For the rears, forgetting about cost for a second, should I not just replace all the linkeage with ERP toe and control arms instead of bushings?

-Alex

Bill; have you any experience with the Walrod bushings, you appear not to like them or is it that you don't like P/U bushings regardless.

I read in this forum and believe the Warlrod bushings have addressed the squeaking issue with grease grooves and otherwise P/U gives one the best compromise between street and track.

I don't think this many RL's are wrong, do you.

Yes, ERP sport all around.

There are a couple of us that replaced all rear components including hardware w/ the RS parts, which have the sport hardness rubber + all new ball joints and upgraded hardware(993 thru '95 used softer hardware than later versions). If you have a '95 the hardware isn't expensive to replace while you are in there. If you need ball joints in back you might as well purchase RS arms. Otherwise the ERP sport rubber bushes are a great choice all around. I am also a big fan of replacing the rubber sidemount bushes w/ solid sidemount bushes.

The difference is night and day compared to stock

The only rear control arms that I used that are not RS are the toe links, I just couldn't keep the rear aligned w/ the stockers so replaced them w/ Tarret toe links w/ locks. While these are great on track and smooth roads you can really feel them when the road gets nasty. This is on top of monoball shock mounts and very stiff shock/spring setup, The other local car that is setup like mine is actually a daily driver and I haven't heard any complaints from him(I actually copied his setup except for Motons).

Yes, I do think this many RL'ers can make relatively poor decisions, I've seen it before, there is a bandwagon mentality, people act w/o thinking through the +/- of a particular product or design.

I am sure that Chris sells a great product, and he is certainly a great guy. It's just that IMO p/u is not a good choice for suspension bushes.

It's not just the squeaking it's the material in this application. p/u bushes rotate inside a sleeve, they must be kept lubricated or the stick, squeal and wear. They are a low cost solution where there are better if more expensive solutions available depending on your useage.

monoballs are better for track use and sport rubber is better for performance street use and stock rubber is better for doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs.

JMO

That much I tend to agree with:):) For a while now I thought you just didnt care for me -- :)

I guess I look at the issue with the cavity bushings as found on the front lower control arm, forward point, a little differently. Yes, they are made this way for comfort (NVH) but the nature of how the inner and outer portion of the rubber itself distorts and flexes isnt at all appealing to me.

What sent me off this road to develop a reasonably priced solution is what I saw 9 years ago when I had my first 993 on the alignment rack. With the lasers on their targets, I pulled down on the car while under the front mainly to check out the bumpsteer that so many folks talked about. Sure enough, just a small amount of suspension displacement, the lasers showed this nasty geometry. And this was as just ROW height on a 40k mile car!!!

Then I dove further into other potential causes and immediately it was obvious the forward pick up point of the lower control arm was indeed 'rubber' -- its how things in racing are described when not up to the task. In other words way too compliant laterally speaking. Just by hand forcing a control arm in and out sent the toe wacky on the laser targets -- I thought this is NO good for maintaining front end geometry. Imagine what is happening while on the brakes with larger forces at work!!

I thought the rubber cavity bushings (durometer 65-70) were just too compliant and of course spherical bearings over the top for predominantly a street car -- what is inbetween?

Just my thoughts on things. I will say I may be too critical given the time I spend with racecars where suspension installation stiffness needs to be as infinite as possible:)

The Lemming mentality can take place any time a group forms, however there are people on this site who have had the Walrod's for a few years and still rave about them. These views are a valuable to me and likely many, and part of what makes this a great site.

Bill and Levino bring up great points. I do feel that this particular forum does share in a heightened sense of technical savi whereby the 'junk' is filtered-off the top and I would like to think there isnt much nonsense sold here.

Factory front bushes are designed to be compliant, for ride comfort, even the RS only has one end of the A arm fitted w/ the stiffer rubber bushes.

ERP sport rubber bushes at both ends of the front A arm help immeasurably, will p/u be stiffer? absolutly will monooballs be stiffer yet again, yes and w/ less stiction. So for a pure track car what do you want? For a pure street car what do you want, For in between what do you want?

read what I am saying and think through what you want

race car what is best? monoball
street car what is best? rubber
something in between? sport rubber or p/u. Of theses 2 which compromises do you want to live w/? If you want p/u and are willing to live w/ the maintannace and wear potential as well as the NVH then great. But an alternative that performs very nearly as well w/o the maintainance, wear, noise & NVH drawbacks of p/u or monoballs is mighty attractive.

and lastly if you use p/u in front what are you going to use in back where the real issues are?

Hey guys, I pulled my A-arms off a couple of days ago and the first one I did (drivers side) I was having trouble getting the arm to separate from the concentric adjustment portion of the assembly. I decided to detach from the rear of the wheel but the bolt (red arrow) only loosened to a point. Long story short I got the a-arm off but I need to re-tighten and torque that bolt. Any tips/advice? My first time doing anything with the steering/suspension like this.

As far as the durability of Chris's bushings goes, I was an early adopter. I've had these on my car for over two years and 20,000 miles. No squeaks and no wear that I can detect, either with physical inspection or by how the car drives.

I haven't been following this thread, but I'll just add that I installed Powerflex front bushings 4 years ago and I haven't had any squeaking or any bad affects. Zero maintenance. Several thousand miles, and many track days.

Would I do it again? Heck, I dunno; I can't tell a difference. :(

It's a tapered shaft so apply a little pressure by way of a bottle jack underneath and once you start to tighten the nut it should snug right up.

Thank you!

My pleasure. Tip: when you take off the other side, if you haven't already, when you take out the eccentric bolt, before moving anything, take sharp object, like an icepick and scribe the inside of the opening, then you can put it exactly where it was upon re-assembly.

Ahh, nice Saturday afternoon here in Cincinnati. Low 80's and sunny, I've got the garage opened up and some tunes cranking. Just popped my 3rd Heineken as I wait for the bushing inserts to soak in some lacquer thinner so I can get the rest of the rubber off. Hope to have these done later this afternoon.

Looking good!

Thanks Roger!

After driving my car quite a bit over the last couple of days I've got to say, this mod is well worth the time and effort. My front end shimmy during light braking is gone. The "hunting" or "tramlining" or whatever it's called when cruising along in a straight line (most noticeable on the highway) is gone. The car all around feels more stable and corners better. Very happy with this. Now it's got me wondering what other rubber bushings or suspension pieces should be replaced. Anyone have any suggestions? Rear bushing? Engine mounts? Transmission mounts?

Thank you Chris!

I had mine installed on Wednesday morning and then drove 350 miles to get home. I too had the 55 mph shimmy that balance couldn't adress and the shimmy under braking. Both gone but not missed.

As the technician who did the work and then test drove the car said, "it feels planted". I couldn't say it better.

I replaced mine a few weeks ago with the ERP sport hardness ones and it was a revelation... but I also changed to EVO uprights GT2 Tie rods. Nevertheless, the fact is that the car never felt this good in the five years I've owned it.

Mine looked completely fine. But, 15 or so years are not kind to these parts so I'm now of the opinion that everyone should change these bushings regardless of mileage.

Can one do both this and the Evo uprights without needing to realign the front end?

I don't think so. You at least need to check the alignment. If it's possible to do without than my mechanic made some extra cash.

finally got mine on
works better than advertised!

TY Chris ;)

Just installed with a used pair of Turbo sways. Much smoother ,nice turn in and no more front end shimmy.. I had no trouble removing the old bushings with just a chisel and hammer. I didn,t need to saw a slot.Easily installed with a vice as a press.

I replaced my engine mounts with solid ones from Wevo. http://www.wevo.com/Products/Chassis...gineMounts.htm
Would recommend to everybody, who are for spirited driving. Thanks to Your post I'm going now to replace control arm bushings..

Jack

There's no doubt doing the front is a necessity now for just about any 993 simply due to age. But what's the consensus on replacing the bushings in the rear with poly or sport hardness rubber such as the ones from ERP?

AFAIK the only choices in back are
monoball
sport rubber, ERP
RS, factory w/ new arms & ball joints
soft rubber, ERP
factory soft rubber, w/ new arms & ball joints

Hi Bill,

Actually, my question was more along the lines of: if the front needed to be done does that mean the rear also needs to be done?

I know you went the route of replacing all the arms in the rear with RS bits -is this much better than simply replacing the bushings with ERP sport hardness? I believe there is a big difference in cost.

JMO, yes, if you make changes at the front matching changes should be made in back

depends on the ball joints, if you don't want/need new ball joints then the ERP hard rubber is just the ticket, if you need new ball joints the RS arms are the way to go

what ever you do, the front and rear need to match in terms of their handling characteristics. You can certainly increase the stiffness of the rear springs relative to the front to get rid of the factory understeer, but you want the way the pieces react to be as similar as possible.

What is recommended for the rear if Chris's bushings are used in the front?

I totally agree with Bill, this is the way I will be going.
I have been following this thread for years, yes since it started, and congratulate Chris W for his contribution and great product.

To contribute in this thread,
there has been some bad results with powerflex after 10k kms, here is one RLister example photos here:

http://www.club911.net/viewthread.php?tid=41563&page=1

many others witnessed a lag of one or several millimeters in their P/U setup, Front and Rear movement of the A-arms, noticeable when moving backward and braking, a big hammer like sound is heard. All with brand above.

The alternative I chose is original RS inserts, they exist and cost as much as normal carerra ones, about 200 euros in EU for both A-arms,
I have them since the start of this thread but never mounted them, soon I think

This thread is extremely helpful. The front bushes in my RS need replacement and my motorsport oriented dealer recommended Powerflex PU bushes in exchange arms.

For 70% road 30% track use, am I correct in thinking that OEM RS replacement arms are the consensus choice?

Geolab, you said you sourced actual RS bushes, can you tell me where you got them? Thanks.

Are these still available? I sent Chris a PM a while ago but haven't gotten a response. I have a '91 964 Turbo in need of some new control arm bushings (I think - there is a shimmy in the front and it's not brake discs or wheel balance).

Geo lab posted the source for actual RS bushes, great find!

just remember that in the front suspension, the RS are stiffer than normal only in the rear A arm bushes, the fronts are just as compliant as the normals, I'd highly recommend changing both to harder rubber bushes as represented by the Elephant Racing Sport hardness versions

Hi There

Using my limited experience to answer the question of whether the rears need doing if the fronts do, I found with my 185k mile car was that the rear bushes were fine. Having said that I changed the whole lot (inc the fronts) for the Elephant Racing RS ones. Like Bill says it is all about the ball joints.

If you do change the rear bushes and then want to change the arm later you can just push the old (ERP ones for instance) bushes out and have them fitted to the replacement arms. They press in and out easily (with a press).

There is no eurethane/poly alternative for the rears that I know of. In my opinion there never will be, nor should there be given the design of them.

Berni

How long ago? I got a PM at 11:34am today and will answer it now that I am home from work.

Chris,

sent you a PM regarding an exchange.

TIA

Hello Chris,
Sent you an e-mail and PM regarding an exchange.

Bill

Sorry to be repetitive, but I just finished installing a set of Walrod LCA bushings in my 95 993 C2, and they are great. No more hunting and wandering in my lane, and the 50 mph shimmy is gone - car just feels tighter. My only advice on the job is to spend a lot of time removing and prepping the control arms, once you are ready to install the new bushings you are home free. Thanks to Chris for the bushings and to Mark & Darin at FD Motorsports for carrying this fine product.

Do these work on a turbo as well?
I have a 993tt with pss-9 and TRG sways.

This is great to hear they've helped your car!

Yes sir they fit the turbo as well.

I'm glad to hear they worked out for you. :thumbup:

Happy New Years Chris!
We are still installing the Walrod bushing package here and keeping our customers very happy with this great improvement !
Most common comment, "I forgot how good this car could handle."

Just installed a set of Chris Walrod's bushings on my 1997 993 C2S. Wow! What a dfference - the 58 MPH shimmy is gone and no more wandering while going straight. I opted for the exchange program, and that worked great. The new control arms were beautifully prepared, and having the new bushings already installed in the new arms made the job very simple and quick to complete. One interesting observation is that my old control arm bushings did not look bad at all. Before the change, when shaking the wheel side to side you could see a very slight movement of the center of the bushing even though you couldn't see the control arm itself move. My car has only 49,000 highway miles. The main symptoms were the slight steering wheel shimmy at about 56 to 60 MPH that wasn't there at lower or higher speeds, and a tendency of the car to wander when the wheel was straight, or to follow grooves in the road surface. Both of these symptoms have been completely resolved by the new bushings. Chris was great to work with and his communications are excellent. I highly recommend this bushing upgrade. Many thanks, Chris!

Just for info Bill, last weekend I visited one of the factories where the original RS bushings were and are still fabricated. I learnt a lot on that day. I was not at TRW but another supplier.
All the elephant parts are shipped from them. Those are exactly the RS bushings they have.
Durometer 85 shores on all RS bushings, 60 on street.
Surprisingly they manufacture all the bushings in street and RS strength for ALL the 993 chassis
from front wishbone to rear tie rods, side panels, v-arms, everything.
don't know why their agents sell only a few parts.
trying to figure out something for rennlisters and myself, at a good price.
would like to change all the rear rods and arms
I am talking rear suspension, for the front it is Chris' for you guys

Anyone know if the OP is still offering these bushings?

Yes, these are still available.

Rear Bushings.... nudge, nudge.... ;)

Hello Chris,

Is it possible for me to press the new bushings in or do I need to exchange my control arm as a core? I live locally to you.

Thx

Does anybody replace the locknuts with new ones as specified in the manual when re-installing the control arms?

Thanks

No for me.

Has anyone compared these to Elephant Racing and Rennline Sealed Monoballs? The OP isn't responding to his PM so figure I better look for alternatives.

My car is going into the shop for work this weekend and I want to get the bushing replaced at the same time.

Bavarian,

Give the guys at FD Motorsports a call or shoot Darin an email at fdmotorsports@comcast.net

He's really good at communication and returning emails. Here's a link to the page on their website where you can find the Walrod bushings. It's a nice mod.

http://www.fdmotorsports.net/index_files/Page1694.htm

huge difference in performance and price.
monoballs are for track use. not so nice on the street. NVR will be harsh with monoballs.
also, $100ish vs over $1000ish.......
what is your application?

Could you resend your PM -- I dont show it arriving -- I typically reply within hours.

Ah, the good ole "computer problem" excuse...

Guys, always worths to give Chris a break, unless he's flying over the Atlantic or pacific to some crazy open wheel thing, he rsponds quickly.

Unless it's c/f side skirts you're after... :evilgrin:
(Just a little inside joke)

Hi, quoting myself from last week. And I sent a PM a week earlier.

monoballs will be the must supple and best for track use worst for street use

I don't understand the fervor for p/u bushes, they aren't as good as monoballs for track use and are worse than rubber for street use.

for street and even hard track use I'd use RS rubber bushes

Bill,
Since I'm looking myself and have been going through this question in my mind, I suspect that pure economics is part of the reason for the "fervor":

Elephant Racing bushings for the front =2*79+2*80 = $318
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...erbushings.htm
Walrod front arm bushings = $103
http://www.fdmotorsports.net/index_files/Page1694.htm

(no affiliation either way...)

Perhaps, like most cars that see track use, they are a compromise altogether. I think the full dedicated track car is the minority whereas the street car that see's some track duty is just that, very much a compromise setup that is by in large very common. The poly bushings are something inbetween that track car and street car setup.

The kit solves the typical front control arm dance at a price point that is a fraction of the cost of the replacement RS bushings. Simply put the poly kit works.

With fresh replacement RS bushes installed, hang out with your alignment guy, get under the car and pull on the control arms in a few different directions and watch the front toe readings dance all over the place. I've done it and it's alarming given the lat and long forces that are applied to this system. A system of cavity bushings that are designed to be compliant in the very axis that the automotive enthusiast really doesnt want it to be. One cannot help but think of the toe changes while on the brakes!

hello to everyone!

i have a question to Chris and anybody, who has already installed Chris's bushing:

i use my Porsche as a daily driver street car and the quality of the streets are not first choise where i live. My question is, wether the bushes from Chris modify the riding comfort: no, yes, a bit stiffers, much harder, etc..
I already drive with Eibach springs and Bilstein B6 sport shocks, euro height, 18" wheels, so the car is not a US "SUV" spec.

thanks for the answers in advance, reagrds thanks Chris for his wonderfull product

Arpad

i haven't noticed a ride quality difference. Front end is solid feeling (i.e. no clunking or anything), but it doesn't really ride harder. The front end is so light its not a big issue.

+1

Any update on getting access to the rear suspension parts? Maybe the manufacture would let FD Motorsports act as a distributor?

Front lower control arm bushings -where to buy?
 

Porsche doesn have them and want to sell me both lower control arms...what is the best solution today for replacement?

To make a long story short,
two RS rear L + R side panels are US $2250 from dealer
the bushings for those:
4 RS bushings per side / 8 total RS bushings for both side panels are $550 shipped

8 RS small bushings for rear $330 shipped
Front A arms L + R so 4 x RS bushes $230 shipped

The few rennlisters who asked me to get the whole RS bushes, I made sure they did.
But since it is in good spirit, I did not think of organizing anything.

Just a reminder
The front 964/993 A arms have 2 bushes, a leading and trailing. Only the trailing bush on the RS/Cup is stiffer sport rubber, the leading bush is the same on all.

Similarly on the 993 rear A arm, the RS has a stiffer rear bush, the leading monoball-like joint is the same on both.

You can replace all 3 of these w/ Elephant Racing sport rubber versions for excellent wheel control

Exhibit A, all RS pieces except the 4 front A arm bushs which are Elephant sport versions
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/uplo...1319546459.jpg

For the leading bush, the bushing manufacture produces a RS hardness bush.
Maybe it was not on the RS, it was for another model, but the bushing factory produces it for Porsche, and it is in their product line. 85 shores.
Next time I order from them, I will take two front for you, and send at no cost.
you will test them and let us know maybe. seriously
I sent some to rennlisters maybe they can chime in.


...and then, there was this;

http://www.shark-motorsport.de/downl...Querlenker.pdf

Are you able to get this translated, looks interesting.... Do you know how much this is?

Uniball-Vorderachs-Querlenker SM-993-104-01-001 Querlenker komplett SM-993-104-11-001 Uniball-Gelenklager-Satz Einzelteil

Für den Rennsport und sportlich-kompromisslosen Fahrer. Die originalen, weichen Gummilager werden durch geschraubte, extrem steife wartungsfreie Uniball-Gelenklager ersetzt. Ergänzend kommt eine Druckstrebe zum Einsatz, welche die auftretenden Kräfte zusätzlich in den steifen Loslagerteil des Achskörpers einleitet. Durch diese Kombination wird die Elastizität und das Eigenlenkverhalten des Querlenkers und dessen Anbindung auf ein Minimum reduziert für aggressives Einlenkverhalten und direktes Feedback des Fahrzeuges. Durch die extrem steife Anbindung ist mit Komforteinbußen zu rechnen. Die Shark Querlenker sind ohne Umarbeit am Fahrzeug gegen die originalen Querlenker tauschbar.

Uniball bushes for motorsport use / hard core street driving. The soft/compliant standard bushes are replaced with extremely stiff ,maintenance free, uniball bearings. In addition a stiffening rod is fitted to feed/spread loads into the suspension mounting cradle. The combination of the above all but eliminates elasticity, geometry changes and stiction. It provides very agressive turn-in and direct feed back on your car's behaviour. Please be prepared for a significant increase in NVH / reduction of comfort.

Price: 1761 Euros.....sure beats the price of a pair of Walrod bushes;-)

Thanks evoderby....... really appreciated. Little on the expensive side, I will stick with Chris's solution.

I like the idea of sealed spherical joints, too bad Rennline and ERP don't have total sealed solutions

Just another happy customer here - was debating these versus the ERP sport hardness and I'm glad I went with these. The installer was impressed by them - and I couldn't be happier with the results. Thanks Chris!

I am about to rebuild mine for the first time since installation, they have been in for approx 3 years, I am interested to see if there is any wear etc...

Some might use the holiday season for putting Walrod bushings in. I just did it the second time this year for my convertible and just wanted to point out some of the items that have been mentioned in this thread. Last time I struggled a little bit with the first arm to chisel out the big metal sleeve. This time it was the easiest part of the job. Took me about 25 minutes for both sides and there are almost no markings inside which speaks for itself. I used the "open the can" method by setting two cuts with the saw but this time I increased the distance to about 10mm. Be patient to make proper cuts with a good hack saw. A couple of more minutes here can save hours with the chisel. Ask me how I know. Than just chisel down between the cuts. The attached picture shows the result. I really did not look forward to this step but at the end it took much longer to clean the arms ....
http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/r...224_142910.jpg

Merry Christmas

Wish I'd seen this a week ago. Those buggers were a beach to get out!

You sold me two sets about six months ago.I have them on my RS clone and the turbo.They are a major improvement and something I would recommend to every 993 owner.Thanks and have a happy holiday.-MP

any tips/traps on getting the control arms out to start this job?
(edit) just found my post in this tthread from 2008 when I ordred the bushings, still haven't fitted them !!

On a side note, why doesnt Chris W produce other bushes as well? I have his lower control arm bushings and am very pleased:)

So Chris, if you make some other products Ill jump in! Tnx

[QUOTE=AB-Oz;9371925]any tips/traps on getting the control arms out to start this job?
I installed the Walrod bushings last last week and didn't have any problems. I used the instructions on FD Motorsports website. Look @ pgs. 11,12, and 13. Reverse the order of the work and that's pretty much how you get them off.

err thanks, but pages 11, 12, 13 of what?

Look here. www.fdmotorsports.net/index_files/Page1694.htm

ahh I see, you meant pgs 11/12 of the install instructions i already have, I thought you meant something else entirely !

No, nothing new. Mine went off and on with only a couple light taps from a plastic (nylon?) mallet.

I have an 87 924s and am redoing all the suspension. I joined here after trying to find out where to buy these bushings i have been reading about. Do they fit the 924s or do I have to get all the stuff from a later 944 so I can use the aluminum flca?

These bushings are for 993/964 front arms only.

Talk to Chuck at Elephant Racing, I know that they have sealed mono-ball kits for 944, and they sell the rubber and mono-ball kits for 993. They may be the same parts.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I just wanted to add that I bought a set of these bushes from Gert Carnewal and I am more than impressed.
My old bushes must have been really shot because it made a big difference to the way the car drove. Any twitchiness in the corners was completely eliminated. Bump-steer, denied!
The difference in my C2 was immediate. I was worried that there might be a bit more harshness, but it was not the case. If anything the ride seemed better.
I don't know if it's been mentioned previously in the thread, but I found the easiest way to get the metal centres out of the old rubber bushes was to play a blow lamp down the middle of the metal centres and heat them right up. When you reach the melting point of the rubber the centres just pop out, needing only a quick going over with a wire brush whilst still hot (wear thick gloves, mind your fingers) and they come up ready for re-use with very little effort.
It was the one thing I was worried about in the fitting process but turned out to be easy.
All the best.

Standard procedure - I use an Acetylene torch, quick heat, out they pop. The outer rings are a bit harder, I slot them and pop them out with a chisel/hammer. Sometimes they are really easy, sometimes they seem to be a bit more resistant - but they always come out. :)

Trophy - I know I am opening an old post, but did you see any wear in 2011 when you pulled it apart after 3 years? Did it need rebuilding at that point? Does that mean it is due again?

I will do this but wish I had thought of it before my new suspension and corner balancing!

For those who installed these. Have your poly bushings developed any noise at low speed? I had these installed 2 years ago and with only a few thousands miles. My car has developed this front end noise. It's constant at low speed 5 - 10 mph. A friend sprayed some teflon lube on the bushings and there was some improvement. but the noise came back just after 20 miles driving...

My poly control arm bushings have been quiet. You sure it's not your sway bar bushings making noise?

Ya might want to clarify "noise". Is it squeaking, squawking, barking etc....? Re-torque? Any suspension work needs to be re-checked after a few hundred miles or so. I check everything at least quarterly, if not monthly. All rubber that is on your car, which is still original, is suspect.

Hard to describe. it sounds like squeaking. but not as sharp of a note. my friend said it sounded like marble rattling too. he also drove the car and didnt think feel anything abnormal. car is tight. He's a PCA instructor with 30+ years Porsche experience.

end links and sway bar bushings are original. has HR sway bars. monoball top mounts. cups suspension with 300 lbs spring

Not much to advise on w/o hearing it or knowing more. If you have H&R sways, those bushings should be newer than original p-car sways. Try and remove brackets on those, bolts on LCA's and re-grease them. The "marble" sound is scary. Wheel bearings current? Does the sound change at all with any steering input? The easiest way to eliminate things is to know exactly what force is applied, from what direction, under what conditions and then figure what component would be bearing that force when the noise is there. Sounds simple, doesn't it? It's a pain in the a$$ to chase crap down. Good luck.

Would be surprised if it's the a-arm bushings, as opposed to all the other suspension mods you've done.

Why would anyone be surprised when p/u bushes start to squeak. p/u is the wrong material for the application

I have 2 sets of these bushes in my junk parts bin, one is from a very low mile track car the other an indeterminate mileage street car, both show wear

Bill,

Just curious, but what do you recommend?
FWIW I have used urethane bushings on everything from Jeeps to my Porsche (which has Walrod bushings installed). When properly installed and lubricated in applications where they essentially act as a bearing (meaning no off-axis rotation or translation), they work great. I have a few years on my Walrod Bushings and they made a tremendous improvement over the 15ish year old stock bushings I replaced.

Sounds like front sway bushings and/or perhaps the shop didn't hook the sway bar bracket into the control arm and its moving around. I didn't do this the first time I swapped bushings.

10000 Lemmings can't be wrong eh?
Porsche tried p/u back in the early '70s and gave it up as a bad proposition, they use rubber or uni-ball which is what I would have and do use on my car.

p/u plus it's cheap and easily manufactured in most any shape by any one.

p/u minus it relies 100% on lubrication, there is no lube that lasts forever in an open sides installation like the A arm bushes, it seeps and washes out and dries out eventually and needs to be renewed. In the mean time the p/u is wearing, the less lube the more wear. Both sets that I have are far from dry yet both sets exhibit wear.

rubber and uni-ball don't last forever either but they do last a long time.

When people choose p/u they ae choosing the low cost solution not the engineering solution, for bushes at least

Now a great application for p/u is steering rack mounts, these are not lubricated and have no sliding friction to worry about. Perfect for p/u
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/uplo...1427980696.jpg

Just to relate my own experience with the Walrod bushings -- I installed them in early 2008, seven years ago, when they first came out. Have put more than 50K miles on them, not a small amount of it pothole city driving. No squeaks or noise of any kind.

I opted for the Walrods when I first determined my "50 mph" shimmy was most likely bushes. That was about 2010, have had the P/U bushes on the H&Rs and the above steering rack P/U bushes. Not near as many track days (and surely, not as extreme) as Bills, but as yet have not had any neg. effects. I think Bill just "abuses" his suspension, and that's a compliment :-)
As a side note, when the P/U fails, it'll be monoballs

Also, when I replaced the steering rack bushes, they could've been sprayed yellow, coated with sugar and passed for Easter candy

I am also planning on doing monoballs in the rear, when I have time to make them.

I think urethane bushings have a place in suspension components, it's not a bad material but I do think it gets used in applications which it's not intended for . Urethane can't take repeated stretching/compressing. It must be used in applications where it acts like a bearing only. The front control arms seem like a good application for urethane as the two bushings rotate through their axes. The rear suspension is a whole other mess of oddly angled arms... a spherical bearing is the only viable option there (OR rubber... of course).

Sure, where there is no twist between the fixed and moveing components urethane will be fine

rear sub frame mounts, engine mounts, transmission mounts, steering rack mounts, shock mounts have minimal twist and urethane works there too. But every other suspension component on a 993 has a twisting component to it, f/r doesn't matter,

the beauty of urethane is that it does resist compression forces very well, this is what makes it stiff. It's other asset is low cost and easy manufacturability.

the bane is that it has little to no self lubricating capacity, it relies on external lube. The Lube Chris supplies must be magic to last as long as it does, but it is not permanent and will need periodic renewal. As the lube dries up stiction increases, stiction leads to heat, wear and misalignment

It would be interesting to speak with Elephant Racing and ask them why they have moved away from Polybronze bushings on anything newer than the Carrera's. Delrin, Nylon, Nylatron or solid bronze all seem like viable lower cost options... for the front control arms anyways.

Bill, Would you recommend any good alternative to rubber bushings? at a reasonable price. This car is a street car. Won't see track days.

The RS had the suspension that should have been on all 993

Elephant Racing Sport Rubber are clones of the oe RS bushes
RS only uses stiffer on the trailing legs of the front A arms, I put them on both legs

to do it right
the rear A arm trailing legs and the KT arms should also have stiffer sport rubber bushes

Chris Walrod bushings
 

I have a set available. New in box. $85 PM me if interested.
Thx. Quinn
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