? Heavy Modding a 993 & Experience with Turbo Kraft?
01-05-2008, 03:53 PM
#46
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I don't have alot of FI experience with M3's, but have taken an E36 to the absolute limit without the hairdryers. Even at 300+ at the crank the limitations of the subframe mounts, trailing arm bushings, brakes, etc became painfully obvious. The 993 platform is a heartier chassis to start from if you want to squeeze into the 500hp range.
In seeing over the years various iterations of FI M3's from AA, TMS, Dinan, Eurosport, etc I have never come across a car that actually put down the kind of power that it was rated at. Locally, a BHS tuned E46 with supposedly 650+ hp was turning only 10's at a recent 60-130mph challenge we held at Hennessey's track. That was with pouring ice over the intake and in the IC tank between runs. By comparison, 996 and 997 turbos rated at 550-600 hp were running in the 6-8 second range on back-to-back runs. I think the key is that alot of the supporting systems for the power plants have been optimized for more extreme duties in the Porsches to enable sustained power output, especially in warmer climates that really put the cars to the test.
In seeing over the years various iterations of FI M3's from AA, TMS, Dinan, Eurosport, etc I have never come across a car that actually put down the kind of power that it was rated at. Locally, a BHS tuned E46 with supposedly 650+ hp was turning only 10's at a recent 60-130mph challenge we held at Hennessey's track. That was with pouring ice over the intake and in the IC tank between runs. By comparison, 996 and 997 turbos rated at 550-600 hp were running in the 6-8 second range on back-to-back runs. I think the key is that alot of the supporting systems for the power plants have been optimized for more extreme duties in the Porsches to enable sustained power output, especially in warmer climates that really put the cars to the test.
01-05-2008, 04:05 PM
#47
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I understand and opted to not go that route with the M3, but the BHS is a supercharger unit and the HPF is a turbo (inasmuch as you're discussing power). This unit uses all stock internals, although gets to its numbers by using race fuel, or stg. II with meth (and the turn of the key). There's no denying the power and in case you're not familiar with it, check out the link above. There were lots of people saying they couldn't do it without denotating the engine, but lo-'n-behold they did it. No heatsoaking issues, etc. HPF has certainly proven their product and blows the rest away for what it is.
I don't disagree with you in the least for platform. Most guys I know deal with the trailing arm bushings and subframe mounts when dealing with this level of power. With regard to the brakes, even with 315 RWHP that my car made, I had Brembo 6 piston monoblocs up front with 380mm cross-drilled rotors, rears with 4 piston 345mm rotors. The point it's been my experience most people develop the platform first, then address the serious power.
Mine:
I don't disagree with you in the least for platform. Most guys I know deal with the trailing arm bushings and subframe mounts when dealing with this level of power. With regard to the brakes, even with 315 RWHP that my car made, I had Brembo 6 piston monoblocs up front with 380mm cross-drilled rotors, rears with 4 piston 345mm rotors. The point it's been my experience most people develop the platform first, then address the serious power.
Mine:
I don't have alot of FI experience with M3's, but have taken an E36 to the absolute limit without the hairdryers. Even at 300+ at the crank the limitations of the subframe mounts, trailing arm bushings, brakes, etc became painfully obvious. The 993 platform is a heartier chassis to start from if you want to squeeze into the 500hp range.
In seeing over the years various iterations of FI M3's from AA, TMS, Dinan, Eurosport, etc I have never come across a car that actually put down the kind of power that it was rated at. Locally, a BHS tuned E46 with supposedly 650+ hp was turning only 10's at a recent 60-130mph challenge we held at Hennessey's track. That was with pouring ice over the intake and in the IC tank between runs. By comparison, 996 and 997 turbos rated at 550-600 hp were running in the 6-8 second range on back-to-back runs. I think the key is that alot of the supporting systems for the power plants have been optimized for more extreme duties in the Porsches to enable sustained power output, especially in warmer climates that really put the cars to the test.
In seeing over the years various iterations of FI M3's from AA, TMS, Dinan, Eurosport, etc I have never come across a car that actually put down the kind of power that it was rated at. Locally, a BHS tuned E46 with supposedly 650+ hp was turning only 10's at a recent 60-130mph challenge we held at Hennessey's track. That was with pouring ice over the intake and in the IC tank between runs. By comparison, 996 and 997 turbos rated at 550-600 hp were running in the 6-8 second range on back-to-back runs. I think the key is that alot of the supporting systems for the power plants have been optimized for more extreme duties in the Porsches to enable sustained power output, especially in warmer climates that really put the cars to the test.
01-05-2008, 04:32 PM
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No, but check out Brett B's - he's done the single turbo and quite frankly his project, and then a couple of others inspired me. As I thought about the M3 and that being done (essentially same level of high compression) I thought why not the 993 and sure enough it's been done.
Check it out: http://turbokraft.com/gallery/Mike
Tell me, what's not to love about this SLEEPER! Check out the videos. SICKNESS!
Check it out: http://turbokraft.com/gallery/Mike
Tell me, what's not to love about this SLEEPER! Check out the videos. SICKNESS!
01-05-2008, 04:49 PM
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Gonzo,
the BHS does use a centrifugal S/C which is somewhat antiquated compared to some of the other offerings. The HPF stuff came out long after I slipped over to the dark side. It sounds like you have the resources, knowledge, and motivation to pull off a grand project with either platform. Good luck either way. BTW that E46 cab looks sweet!
the BHS does use a centrifugal S/C which is somewhat antiquated compared to some of the other offerings. The HPF stuff came out long after I slipped over to the dark side. It sounds like you have the resources, knowledge, and motivation to pull off a grand project with either platform. Good luck either way. BTW that E46 cab looks sweet!
01-05-2008, 05:26 PM
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eclou - thanks, but I'll tell you the HPF with all its power isn't enough to keep me from coming back to Porsche -- truly, "there is no substitute" - I found out the hard way after dumping my two other 911s.
