My 993 feels slow now.
 

So I am no longer using the 993 as the DD as I have my BMW E30 project on the road. Problem is the E30 is stupid fast. Now the 993 feels a little anemic. Don't get me wrong I still love the feel, sound and looks of the P-car.
This state of affairs has got me thinking about 2 options:

Modify the 993, or find a 993TT that is in the same condition as my current car.

Just thinking out loud here, but for an additonal $20K over what I could get for the 993 "S" I could get a similar condition TT.

there is always something faster. Im thinking of going from a 700rwhp cobra to a 230rwhp 993, so speed isn't always the best attraction.

Do you really think you would be 20k happier with a turbo over your N/A?

Great point. I have had similar feelings as the initial post, as my E39 M5 is my daily driver. When I first get into the 993 on the weekend, the first thing I notice is the loss of power. But after a few turns and getting reconnected with the car, I understand why these two cars complement each other so well. I could trade both cars in and have enough $$ for a 993 TT, but I'm much happier having both toys and appreciating them individually for what they are.

Drive a Civic, then hop in your "fast" 993.

lol that's what I do, so my 993 doesnt feel sluggish at all! :)

Wow, I feel the exact same way! Been thinking about a TT for so long... But when you think about it, the 993 NA can get you into plenty trouble as it is. A regear would be the ticket for this car but it is so darn expensive, would probably rather just go with a TT.

My daily driver is a 1995 toyota land cruiser with the stock inline 6. My 993 feels stupid fast everytime I drive it!

+100 after driving wifey's 1994 toyota land cruiser...same results!:)

+1
My DD is a 1.9 TDI Jetta wagon.
On the occasion that I do think about a TT or Gt3, I think how fast do I really need to go on public roads?

Many cars are faster in a straight line. Not too many are more fun in the twisties. If the build quality of a Nissan 350Z is acceptable, a Z06 Corvette may be just the ticket.

...get the TT and don't look back. Just post a couple pix as a show of good faith when you do:)

I'm back to going from the C4S to a GMC W4500 commercial truck for the daily grind, rinse and repeat to return home at the end of the day.........

Anyway, unless you're in some place you need continual hole shots, what doesn't the NA car offer? I literally pull out of my driveway and 100 feet later am on the freeway. 25 miles later I get off for 1/2 mile to my warehouse. A 6th gear, ~75mph snooze at 5AM..........

My 993 is the 2nd slowest vehicle in my fleet

Stupid Fast = Blackbird CBR1100xx - like being shot out of a Cannon like riding on a missle
Very Fast = 331 SVO Block Mustang with Procharger D-1 Intercooler
Adequate Fast = 993 compared to the Van its very fast -and anything breaking the 1/4 at over 100+ is fast to me.
Just Slow = E350 7.3 Diesel Van.

All in all the 993 gives me a lot of pleasure and satisfaction even though it is not the fastest but it sure is the most beautiful of all cars.

Scott

Don'y get me wrong, I love my 911. I guess I am just surprised at how quick the E30 ended up being. I do know the 911 would be faster over say 125 mph or so. As to the handling the BMW ain't anywhere near stock anymore so I'll answer that after an upcoming track day.
Build quality there is no contest. The 911 beats just about anything out there (save for 1985 and older Mercedes)

Our daily driver is an XC70. The 993 feels quite fast. Ignorance is bliss. :burnout:

I drive a Civic Hybrid during the day and the GT3 other times. The only reason I sold the 993 was for a bit more performance. I also thought about the TT and hope at some time to own one, but that extra rush of power is just so addicting. It is a very hard decision.

jv

I had the same issue driving my e39 M5 everyday. I even thought about a TT.

I find the secret with my NA 993 is to keep the revs up. Above about 4000 rpm, it's a happy camper. It's the 0-60 runs that feels slower compared with the M5. 60 to 100+ still comes on faster than it should, and the engine sound of the Porsche moving toward redline can't be beat. Not only that, the Porsche brakes are better than the BMW and I can carry more speed through the curves in the Porsche.

I've come to the conclusion that the NA 993 does what it was designed to do better than any car on the road. Unless something makes me sell it, I'll keep my widebody C4S, then when I can afford it and a TT I'll pull the trigger.

+100 :D

My 993's are stupid sexy! :thumbsup:

Scott :burnout:

Sometime I'd wished our 993 had about 50 more hp...:burnout:
But then I' realized why I didn't buy a vette!:evilgrin:

I feel your situation... I just purchased a 340hp Volvo V70R wagon and it smokes the p-car.

My daily driver is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, kind of essential with teenage kid's. Still when I get the porsche out they want to squeeze in the back. The 993 N/A feels like riding a motorbike compared to the heavy Jeep. With the 993 N/A you can really feel the road and the feedback through the steering is great. By comparison the Jeep feels very divorced from the road. Horses for courses. The Porsche makes me smile evertime I get it over 4000 RPM. If I had dollars sitting around doing absolutely nothing I would go for a 993 TT, but push come to shove I am happy with the 993 N/A and I would rather buy more stock. Call me Mr Conservative :-)

I'm with Mark here.. Especially on our roads (max 110km/h) you wonder how fast you really NEED to go.. Ofcourse its all about accel on and off ramps to the highway but still I dunno.. I like the lines of the NA better but the TT has other points of attraction. I also like the sound of the NA cars better. C2S and C4S's are pretty expensive here in Europe so for me it would only mean an attitional 10K for a turbo with the same mileage in the same condition.. Difficult decision but as I said before, leaning towards the NA alternative. As someone said, there's always something faster so actually it is more about being satisfied with what you have and love it for the right reasons :D!

speed is relative
 

speed is always relative... relative to the pavement, relative to other cars, etc. To me, speed is not the rush; it is the change in speed (i.e. acceleration, deceleration, lateral G's) that are exciting. My 993 hands-down beats my M5 in three out of four vectors. Sure it sucks when some yahoo in a cheesy mustang pulls up next to me at a light when I'm in the 993 and starts revving his engine. Those are the only times that I wish I was in the M5 over the 993. But then again, not many people want to race me in the M5 (either uninformed and think it's just another 4-door sedan, or informed and scared).

My x's volvo turbo wagon was awesome and I miss driving it now and then. But the 993 is still fun and as was posted before, a solid 50 more hp would be good...

Well I drove the 933 up to Rome (GA) Friday to look at some land I'm buying. Once you get the car out of the Atlanta stop and go traffic it is a real pleasure to drive, and the sound can't be beat!
Maybe I'll use it for the longer trips and use the BeastMW for 'round town and the track. Once we move out to the farmland it'll be a lot more go than stop.
Plus the 993 is paid for. That's a BIG plus.
Anyway here's a link to the car that caused all the confusion. It's a LOT of fun.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...OldSkul1-1.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...dSkulside2.jpg

Reynard,

I am also an E30 325is owner. Frankly, I'm amazed (though I must admit that I'm not sure I believe) that you could build an M20 (notwithstanding the fact that's it's a turbo) to put out enough HP to upstage your 911 and not blow apart in 10 seconds. [For all those who are not intimate with E30 325is BMWs - the M20 is a 2.5 liter12valve 6 cylinder which comes standard. It puts out 168hp and 164lbs in a car weighing approximately 300lbs less than a NB 993].

I see that you've enlarged the engine 2.7 liters (presumably with an eta or TD crank to achieve the extra displacement and lower compression). I imagine you are running a custom fuel injection system as it's unlikely the standard motronic can handle the fuel requirements of your car. Does the car have an intercooler? Glad to see you've done a 5 lug conversion (even though E30 M3 brakes are still mediocre).

Much as I love my 325is for what it is, even with 300hp it simply doesn't compare to my 993. (My EVOIII E30 M3 wasn't close either). The 993 is a total package - brakes, handling, steering in a balanced package. The 325is is nice, but it's steering, brakes, and structural intergrity are lacking at 168hp - not to mention 300hp.

For me, the longer I own my 993 (it's been 9+ years now), the more I love it. Same with my 325is, but to a lesser degree. I'll probably never sell either.

Cheers,

Reynard,

Amazing E30! :bowdown:

I have followed some of the transformation on r3vlimited - congratulations! As if the slope wasn't slippery enough for 993s, must stop the freefall with my E30 too...

You are forgetting that once you get used to it your new turbo or GT3 will start to feel slow and then you'll want to add some more power and it's off down the slope again... My old 3.2 felt really fast until I got a Honda Fireblade and then it started feeling really, really slow! Find three fat blokes, stuff them in the car, drive them off to a burger joint, dump them there and Wahey! A whole new sporty car!

Cheers,

David

I was amazed too when I first drove the car. Yes is does have the 524td crank, lightened and balanced. 2nd oversize super ETA pistons (forged by JE). The turbo kit is by Todd at www.turbochargingdynamics running 10psi. With a Begi RRAFPR the re-chipped Motronic does just fine and the AFR's are a safe 12/1 under boost. 30 pound injectors are installed. A car similar to mine runs mid 12's in the 1/4 at 110mph. It has a liquid to air intercooler with it's own tank and pump.

The underpinnings are not stock either. E36M3 coilovers from Treehouse racing with Koni Adjustables, Urethane bushings throughout, bigger sways, and a UUC big brake kit with 13" rotors up front with 4 piston aluminum calipers. Also installed a quicker steering rack (2.7 turn lock-to-lock) out of a Z3. A friend of mine has a E30 M3. This car will destroy it.

I initially wanted to build a 911SC to roughly 3.0RSR specs. I love those cars. Financially that was not possible, so I went with the E30 project. It's relatively cheap and lots of fun.

But I don't think I will ever sell the Carrera "S". I agree it is a total package. But I wouldn't mind another 50-70 hp either (Ninemeister are you listening?)

I too love the RSR/IROC look. Someday I'm gonna take a 964 and backdate the looks to RSR/IROC. That way I get the 3.6 and the G50, and the upgraded brakes, suspension, and interior of the later car.

Sounds like you've done your homework. Best thing about working with an M20is that unlike an S14, if it blows, it easy and cheap to buy another.

These cars are lots of fun to tinker with. While my engine is stock (save a JC chip), I've done lots of suspension work - E30 M3 steering rack, E30 M3 springs, Koni adjustables (wish they made these for 993), alumium control arms with offset bushings, and most recently front camber plates and adjustable rear camber kit (this makes a huge difference).

Next up - brakes. Already have steel lines, how do you like the uuc kit?


Cheers

I'm very happy with the brakes. I'm using the 750i master cylinder. I've got the stainless lines as well. Next up is removing the ABS pump and installing a bias adjuster.
Nive looking E30 you've got there!