Notices

Inquiries regarding the 993 I just looked at

 
Old 03-30-2007, 07:15 PM
  #1  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default Inquiries regarding the 993 I just looked at

Hi RLers,

I just came back from looking at a 95 993 w/ 120k miles and would like some expert opinions of my observations.

1. Clutch was replaced 15k miles ago, but when I was driving it, the engagement point is very high, almost to the point of full release of the clutch pedal, is it normal? Can it be adjusted? Does it mean maybe the clutch slave needs to be bled?

2. Engaging 2nd gear from 1st doesn't seem very smooth, almost grinding but not quite. Could it also be the clutch slave?

3. I never understood the oil level gauge. At idle, it's horizontal (middle), but once I accelerate, it drops to the red zone. Is that normal for dry sump engines or is there a problem?

4. This is the car that has had a full topend rebuild at 106k miles, including valve guides, valve stem seals, crankshaft seals, etc. I've made a post couple of days ago and the general consensus for such an overwhelming rebuild is that "while the head is off, might as well replace other things too".

5. Lumber control on the driver's seat is broken, is there a quick and easy fix or does it involved tearing down the seat?

6. What is a good offer for such a car? The owner is asking for 25k. 95 c2, blk/blk, 120k miles with full upend rebuild at 106k (w/ records). 3 owners. Current owner in real estate business, last owner a lawyer who purchased from an auction. Exterior 8/10, some nicks and cracked paint on bumper, small dent below the rear signal light. Interior 8/10, broken driver's side lumbar, no tears in seats but some wear.

Thank you very much.

Jack
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-30-2007, 07:43 PM
  #2  
DJF1
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
DJF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Burlington CANADA
Posts: 7,004
Default

1. Is the clutch light? If its very heavy the clutch was probably not changed only 15K ago. yes you can adjust it as well.

2. Most likely your synchros. They are copper and they wear out. It could also be that you are shifting too fast. This gearbox ain't a honda model. Nice precice and deliberate action will reward you. Smooth and not too fast. Finally flush it and use new oil . It will work miracles. Welcome to learning how to drive a 911

3. The oil level guage behaves absolutely normal as you describe it. In reality its the last quart of oil from top to bottom which means that even if you are in the red most likely you are ok. The gauge works only on idle and on an even surface. To find out if you have enough oil Check the dipstic only.

4. What exactly did not happen on the top end? If it was done right, IMO just drive the damn thing and stop worrying.

5. Dont know much about that. i know the motors etc are in the bottom of the seat.

6. 911's are not your average KBB specials. There is no wrong and no right price. If the price is right for you and you are happy with the car, then go for it and enjoy!
DJF1 is offline  
Old 03-30-2007, 11:43 PM
  #3  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by DJF1
1. Is the clutch light? If its very heavy the clutch was probably not changed only 15K ago. yes you can adjust it as well.

2. Most likely your synchros. They are copper and they wear out. It could also be that you are shifting too fast. This gearbox ain't a honda model. Nice precice and deliberate action will reward you. Smooth and not too fast. Finally flush it and use new oil . It will work miracles. Welcome to learning how to drive a 911

3. The oil level guage behaves absolutely normal as you describe it. In reality its the last quart of oil from top to bottom which means that even if you are in the red most likely you are ok. The gauge works only on idle and on an even surface. To find out if you have enough oil Check the dipstic only.

4. What exactly did not happen on the top end? If it was done right, IMO just drive the damn thing and stop worrying.

5. Dont know much about that. i know the motors etc are in the bottom of the seat.

6. 911's are not your average KBB specials. There is no wrong and no right price. If the price is right for you and you are happy with the car, then go for it and enjoy!
Clutch is on the light side, although not as light as my current M3. The current owner seems very honest, I wouldn't doubt any of his claims. I am just worried about the condition of the clutch because that's not how it felt the last time I drove a C4.
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-30-2007, 11:52 PM
  #4  
RallyJon
Weathergirl
Rennlist Member
 
RallyJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SE PA
Posts: 4,842
Default

In my limted experience...

1) Yeah, high engagement is normal. As long as the pedal action is smooth, moderately light and consistent even when hot, and always returns to the top, it's fine. When it feels like there are several minor resistance points through a heavy, jerky travel, you need the kinematic lever updated (if original) and/or bleed and/or slave and/or master cylinder replacement.

2) Normal if cold. Not normal if the trans is fully warmed up unless you're shifting very hard/fast.

3) Normal.

4) This is great and a real peace-of-mind adder if it was done right.

5) No idea.

6) Seems in the ballpark to me plus or minus a bit depending on common wear items. When were the struts replaced? If never, that's a $1500 issue. How fresh are the brakes? Caliper the rotors, check the pads. How new are the tires? Are the wheels curbed, dinged? Does the spoiler make a grinding noise going up or down? Does the windshield vibrate and rattle at ~3000 rpm or over bumps? Check EVERY function of the HVAC controller. They cost $1k to replace. Is the heater blower burned out?
RallyJon is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 12:14 AM
  #5  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by RallyJon
In my limted experience...

1) Yeah, high engagement is normal. As long as the pedal action is smooth, moderately light and consistent even when hot, and always returns to the top, it's fine. When it feels like there are several minor resistance points through a heavy, jerky travel, you need the kinematic lever updated (if original) and/or bleed and/or slave and/or master cylinder replacement.

2) Normal if cold. Not normal if the trans is fully warmed up unless you're shifting very hard/fast.

3) Normal.

4) This is great and a real peace-of-mind adder if it was done right.

5) No idea.

6) Seems in the ballpark to me plus or minus a bit depending on common wear items. When were the struts replaced? If never, that's a $1500 issue. How fresh are the brakes? Caliper the rotors, check the pads. How new are the tires? Are the wheels curbed, dinged? Does the spoiler make a grinding noise going up or down? Does the windshield vibrate and rattle at ~3000 rpm or over bumps? Check EVERY function of the HVAC controller. They cost $1k to replace. Is the heater blower burned out?
New Bilsteins, new brakes, new steering rack, all done at the same time as the topend rebuild. Spoiler has no grind noise although he said sometimes it doesn't come up automatically, he usually raises it manually before he drives. New windshield due to rock chip, HVAC works fine although AC is not very strong, didn't try the heater since it's 90F outside this afternoon. There is absolutely no rattle or squeaks under any condition, he's very nice to let me drive it at some windy canyon roads for an hour during my test drive.

I wasn't shifting fast at all going into 2nd, it might be syncro, might be slave/master, not sure. I think I'm going to offer him $23500.
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 01:15 AM
  #6  
Duane993
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Duane993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego Ca
Posts: 409
Default

Porsche updated the 993 second gear and synchro set in all MY96 to handle the 993tt engine torque. If you had a 95 993 and complained enough when it was new (like I did) they upgraded these tranny parts to MY96. But with a 120k on the synchros even upgraded ones could be worn out. Windshields and back windows on 993 have squeek problems so you're lucky it was replaced. Revised front and rear window mounting seals were used mid MY96. Hopefully the engine cover was removed by the first owner. Its aerodynamic improvements are doubtful and the engine runs cooler without it. Even though the top end was rebuilt, the rest of the car has 120k on it, simple little stuff (window lifts, HVAC control, seat motors etc. can add up to repair). Also check too make sure the engine wiring harness recall was completed.
Duane993 is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 10:33 AM
  #7  
Miller_arch
User
 
Miller_arch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 348
Default

I little over a year ago I gave 22 for a car with 155,000 miles. About the same condition but more miles. I drive it everyday and love every minute of it so I am at about 170K now. I have put maybe 3 grand into the car on normal stuff, did most of the work myself and loved doing that too...because that’s what I expected when I bought the car (have to put money into it).

If you like the car, got the ability to buy it and maintain it, then do it. These cars go forever and you will never look back!

A marginal mid 1980’s 911 will sell for mid teens everyday. So it could cost you maybe $10,000 - $15,000 to drive this car for 10 years…how much did it cost the previous owners to drive it the same amount of time…and get the same amount of enjoyment?

I did not buy mine to sell it; I bought it to drive it. If you are looking seriously at a high mileage car and have a similar mindset you too will not be disappointed.
Miller_arch is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 11:32 AM
  #8  
black ice
User
 
black ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,395
Default

I agree with Miller. I think at 25 or less it's a fair deal. I paid 28 for a 95 with 68.

Check the bottom cover underneath the steering rack and make sure it's not wet. PO left me with full receipts, including a rebuilt rack replaced by his shop just months before I bought it. I have a big red spot in my garage where I park from the leaky "rebuilt" rack. I still woulda bought the car, but would have offered a tad less..
black ice is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 04:14 PM
  #9  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by Duane993
Porsche updated the 993 second gear and synchro set in all MY96 to handle the 993tt engine torque. If you had a 95 993 and complained enough when it was new (like I did) they upgraded these tranny parts to MY96. But with a 120k on the synchros even upgraded ones could be worn out. Windshields and back windows on 993 have squeek problems so you're lucky it was replaced. Revised front and rear window mounting seals were used mid MY96. Hopefully the engine cover was removed by the first owner. Its aerodynamic improvements are doubtful and the engine runs cooler without it. Even though the top end was rebuilt, the rest of the car has 120k on it, simple little stuff (window lifts, HVAC control, seat motors etc. can add up to repair). Also check too make sure the engine wiring harness recall was completed.
Duane, thanks for your input. The wiring harness is indeed replaced at 90k under warranty. Also, the chain cover seal was replaced due to oil leak at around the same time. I saw these two on the records the owner showed me. He has every single record dated back to 99 when the 2nd owner purchased the car from auction. Unfortunately, we know nothing of the car prior to 99.
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 04:17 PM
  #10  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by Miller_arch
I little over a year ago I gave 22 for a car with 155,000 miles. About the same condition but more miles. I drive it everyday and love every minute of it so I am at about 170K now. I have put maybe 3 grand into the car on normal stuff, did most of the work myself and loved doing that too...because that’s what I expected when I bought the car (have to put money into it).

If you like the car, got the ability to buy it and maintain it, then do it. These cars go forever and you will never look back!

A marginal mid 1980’s 911 will sell for mid teens everyday. So it could cost you maybe $10,000 - $15,000 to drive this car for 10 years…how much did it cost the previous owners to drive it the same amount of time…and get the same amount of enjoyment?

I did not buy mine to sell it; I bought it to drive it. If you are looking seriously at a high mileage car and have a similar mindset you too will not be disappointed.
Thanks for your input. The 993 I'm looking for at this moment is going to be a driver, not a keeper. In the future, I want to get a 993tt to keep it forever. Since I'm not going to keep this one forever, I am a little concerned of resale value. High mileage less than perfect 993 in 5 years is only going to attract very limited buyers.
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 04:18 PM
  #11  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Originally Posted by black ice
I agree with Miller. I think at 25 or less it's a fair deal. I paid 28 for a 95 with 68.

Check the bottom cover underneath the steering rack and make sure it's not wet. PO left me with full receipts, including a rebuilt rack replaced by his shop just months before I bought it. I have a big red spot in my garage where I park from the leaky "rebuilt" rack. I still woulda bought the car, but would have offered a tad less..
There is no leak from the rack, otherwise he wouldve disclosed that to me, like he disclosed everything about the car to me. I feel the owner is a indeed very honest for what he knows, but I also understand there are things he doesn't know that might prove to be costly in the future.
WIMPWGN is offline  
Old 03-31-2007, 06:54 PM
  #12  
Black993
Super User
 
Black993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 2,839
Default

Just my insight as I purchased one a few days ago:

Clutch engages up top like you describe

oil level issue is how mine is, and the rest are. Middle of the gauge when not moving, bottom of the gauge when moving

I gave 27 for mine with 70k on it. With all thats been done, I think its a pretty good deal....at least in my very limited and knew knowledge about this amazing car. I say go for it
Black993 is offline  
Old 04-01-2007, 02:26 PM
  #13  
chris walrod
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor

 
chris walrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: yorba linda, ca
Posts: 15,612
Default

Here is a late, late 1995 C2 with sport seats that is reasonably priced. Looks clean with nice options other than the c/f decals

No affiliation
chris walrod is offline  
Old 04-01-2007, 09:10 PM
  #14  
Avid Fan
Super User
 
Avid Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northwet
Posts: 3,468
Default

Originally Posted by chris walrod
Here is a late, late 1995 C2 with sport seats that is reasonably priced. Looks clean with nice options other than the c/f decals

No affiliation
That looks like a nice car for the money...even at $29k
Avid Fan is offline  
Old 04-02-2007, 08:57 PM
  #15  
WIMPWGN
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 119
Default

Another potential buyer did an inspection at the dealer and found several things that need to be looked at.

- broken hvac control unit (max a/c doesn't work)
- bent toe link
- missing fender liner
- brake pads down to paper thin
- needs alignment
- spoiler control unit broken
- passenger seat does not go back and forth (switch? motor?)

Seems like a good $2000 worth of repair needs to be done.

I think I will pass on this one and look for another in better condition.

Not my favorite color anyway.
WIMPWGN is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: