Ritter v4.0

I concur with the opinion that although undoubtedly a nice car, a C2S at this money gives you other better (IMO) p-car options within striking distance. E.g. I would take a higher miles TT but thats just me.

BTW- What are 996 GT3s running (range)?

Wilder

I've seen some as low as $67 asking with high mileage but most are in the $70s. Mind you, high mileage on a GT3s seems to be around 25k as most tend to have south of mid teen miles.

mrsullivan

agree with this statement...VERY small market for this type of car a year ago, and even smaller market now....

mrsullivan

make sure that we are comparing apples to oranges...

for $55k (likely selling price of this car), you cannot buy a GT3, you cannot buy a 997, and you cannot buy a 993tt IN SIMILAR CONDITION...

a low mileage 993tt in pristine condition is still selling in the high $60s, even $70s... and a 996 GT3 in great conditoin low mileage is going to be $70k...

i do agree that the 996s pricing is getting very attractive, i just posted about that recently....however, for $55k i still think that this is a great buy... bullet proof 993, last year, very last aircooled model, the right color combo, etc... most of the depreciation is done. Of course, all this assumes that it is mint condition...cant tell that over the Internet.

DC from Cape Cod

To add additional data...a Rennlist sponsor and dealer has recently informed me that I would net $60K within days of informing him I wanted to sell my car. He has buyers ready and willing to spend that for the right car.

scott watkins

Please send them my way.
Thanks.

http://mall.rennlist.com/scripts/fea...ch_and_display

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Clean c4s with only 16k miles.

Wilder

I agree with all your arguments. All I'm pointing out is that:

a) based on my observation after tracking the market closely over the past 14 to 16 months, prices of all 993 seem softer now than a year ago. I don't know if it's weather related as many parts of the US are still under winter-like conditions or if the softer US economy has something to do with it but whereas last year I was hard pressed to find an exemplary condition, lower mile 993TT for under $70k, I've now seen several in the mid and even low $60s. Last year when I bought my cab, comparable examples were commanding high to mid $30s. Now, similar examples are priced in the low $30s. I know these cars best as one I own and the other I've been looking to own since I bought my cab but I've been tracking all 993s.

b) not trying to compare apples to oranges but rather point out that other very attractive options for p-car enthusiasts looking to spend $50k to $75k are starting to surface now that the 997s have been around for two years. Being high production cars that have been around for 2 years, there are enough out there that used examples can be bought fairly cheap. This will naturally pull down the price of all 996 and even 993 variants as people trade up. Just think how many people within this forum alone have picked up 997s. I'm personally thinking that I'd rather own an 05 997S for $65k, a 993TT for $60k or a GT3 for $70k than a 282HP 993 for $55k, even though its beautiful and rare.

Just my opinion.

Oshin11

IMHO, why pay 58500 for a 993 with 30K miles on it when I can pay 65000 for a 997 C2 with 0K miles on it?

DC from Cape Cod

Because in 5 years the 1998 C2S will be worth around the same and the others will all continue to depreciate as they have been doing.

If a particular version of a car holds its value over years, there must be a reason for it. The very fact that these cars have seen litttle depreciation means they are desireable, without regard to the ability of everyone to see or recognize it.

mrsullivan

Louis, in sprit we are in agreement.... just not in the "numbers". I dont accept your premise that you can buy a 997 S for $65k....unless its very high mileage or abused. I think many of the other numbers are off also.

As to why would you even buy a 993 widebody at these high prices, the answer is rarity. For sure, these cars cant compete with the new ones in terms of performance, and they are relatively out of date in terms of ergonomics, etc. However, there is indeed something special about them... and anyone who owns a 997 would agree, it's not the same. In terms of just shear numbers, less than 1000 1998 993 S cars were sold in the U.S. (993 of them to be exact :-) I imagine Porsche sells that now in a month. Doesnt make the 993 a better car, but there will always be a niche market for these.

Empirically, if the widebody 993s are selling in the $50s still, 10 yrs after production, the market seems to agree with them being a higher value item.

95 C4 993

Maybe the 993's will take the route the 67-71 991 "S" models are taking. Man, talk about a shot up in value that past couple of years!!

I could car less about my 95 C4 value--it could be worth $10k today and I wouldnt care. However, it isnt depreciating at a rate that most cars do so that is a positive. Everything my C4 has depreciated, I have probably dropped 1.5x in upgrades and maintainence so no matter how I look at it, I have lost money. I paid $36k for mine with 34k on it almost 5 years ago. It now has 59k on it and probably worth at least $29k (thats speaking on the low side).

I wish the 993 market would just tank.......so I can pick up a 993 Turbo cheap!!!

Wilder

I was on autotrader.com yesterday looking at 997Ss and left the page up. Here's a sample:

2005 PORSCHE 911, 22,500 mi, Carrera S Coupe, 6 spd, Black w/Blk Full Leather Pwr and Heated seats Sport Chrono Bose, 6 Cd, Like New Email for more Pics, $64,950, 209-678-5678

2005 PORSCHE 911 COUPE/NAVIGATION. Six Speed Manual Transmission. Arctic Silver Metallic with Black Leather Interior. Only 9,700 One Owner miles! Loaded with Options! Car is in Showroom New Condition. Lease for 48 Months/$881 plus tax/tag with $5,000 Down or purchase for $65,900. Options include: Navigation, 19 Inch Carrera S Wheels, Bose Sound System, Full Leather Seating, Xenon Headlamps, PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management), In-Dash CD Player and 6-Disc CD Changer. All Books, Records and Extra Keys! Full Factory Warranty until November 18, 2008 or 50,000 miles! Serious Inquires Only Please! (954) 610-4171 or email: r_feld@hotmail.com. (it's not in the body of the ad but this is an 2S)

CARRERA S Coupe. Black on Black, Loaded w/ Options- 6 Spd, 19" Carrera Classic Wheel, Sport Chrono Package Plus, BOSE High End Sound Pkg, Sport Shifter, Bi-Xenon HID Headlights, PSM, PCM Color Display, Speed Activated Rear Spoiler. Balance Of Factory Warranty. CARFAX Certified, One Owner, FL Car. Exterior- Dent/Scratch Free Finish, Interior- Extra Clean, Non-smoker. Beautiful Color Combination- Black w/ Black Leather & Aluminum Trim. View Our Website At www.MILLENIAMOTORS.com (this car is a 2005 w/29k mi for $65,900)

This is the 993TT I was looking at from craigslist that I missed out on (the ad is already down):

Porsche 993 Twin Turbo 1996. Black/Black 40,000 original miles, 2-owners. All books and records, Sports seats w/ cf backs, Brand new tires, recent service. No paint work. Flawless condition. $62,000 or best offer. (It sold for $61k.)

I'm sure if you do a search for 993TTs and GT3s you'll find that the numbers I posted are THE numbers. Sure, there's cars priced higher, but they're the ones that sit and don't sell for months and months until reality hits and the prices get reduced down and aligned with the market.

I got my license at 16 some 18 years ago and while I've always had a car, I've never owned a specific one for more than two years. I love cars and like variety but that means I have to be smart and do my homework because I simply can't afford to overpay and I can assure you I've been doing my homework.

CarmG993

The price someone is asking is irrevelant in reality, it's what the car sells for.
Now to go off the deepend end, you mean to tell me that some of the cars that sell at the JB auction are worth the dollars collected. I don't think so, and even if someone does pay, it's because they can. As for our cars, I think they do command a little bit more as they are becoming a bit more rare, and low mileage examples are hard to come by.
My C2S was in the mid 50's and was a steal I believe and it didn't have 20k on the odometer. So would mine w/ very low mileage bare the market at 60 - 65 because of the work done, I don't think so, but if someone wanted to pay that.
I am just happy that I still love the lines of our 993's.
The 996 and the 997's will never be 993's.
Just my opinion.

mrsullivan

Louis, I guess I stand corrected.... and now my little world is a turned upside down... a 997 S w/ 20k miles for $65k...??? Wow. That is a lot of car for the money. I have driven one and even raced *a bit* with a 993tt.... the 997S did just fine against it....the torque and linearity of the NA 3.8 was addictive...

hmmm

N51

Louis is reading it right. The newer cars show higher mileage per year ownership. It's something that some often overlook as they consider the value of 993's. As the market shifts, accept it and adapt. If you must have an air/oilcooled car, we still must recognize where the market is going.

It is interesting that many, of the 993 fold, have praised the new look of the 997 that reaches back to the 993. It may be that same look that weakens the market value of the 993. While I share, as many of you do, the same sentimental value toward pre-watercooled Porsches, I'm reluctant to predict, but always watching and learning. As the market leads, I follow.

Noah