g_murray

I gotta say, the 'Motiv Power Bleeder' *IS* the way to go.
This was my first time using it, and, it IS worth it! You can 'control' what goes on, you DO NOT need a 'buddy' pressing on the brake pedal whilst you're out of ear-shot twiddling with the bleed-screw!

Before 'attempting' this, I did a lot of reading -- esp. the "DIY section(s)", obviously -- however, none of the material I perused had any pictures!
So, here are mine.

FWIW, I was starting to notice a certain 'mushiness' in the pedal travel. The brakes would 'stop' the car, but the pedal would slowly keep on moving towards the floorboard and had the consistency of 'soft cheese'. If I 'pumped it' -- it would get hard but would never stay hard.

Normally this means air needs to be bled from the brake system, but, in my case, a 'full-flush' needed to be performed. Reason? the fluid is required to be _changed_ every two years -- and according to my maint. records... the time was 'now'.

Enjoy !

http://i-fly.freeyellow.com/miscell/...akes/index.htm

BTW, this whole 'flush' scha-bang took me approx. 4 hours. Why so long? Well, I was on my own in the driveway in 29 deg. weather with gusty winds and it was my FIRST time! Plus, I had heard that you can do the fronts by merely 'turning the wheels' to one (extreme) side. Frankly, I could NOT seem to get enough access -- so I decided to also take those wheels/tires off too.

AOW162435

Excellent pictures and notes. As an FYI, I also use the Motive (Black Label) and decided not to fill it with fluid. One less thing to clean and no chance of introducing older fluid back into the system next time. I simply top the reservoir off with new fluid (after sucking as much of the old out first) and then pressurize the bleeder. This has worked on a few occasions without a hitch. When I'm done, I just stow the bleeder back in the box - it's still clean as new after three or four uses.

Andreas

texas911

Nice! Where do you take the used brake fluid?

g_murray

Right now it's still in 'the container', in the garage, but I'd presume -- for the sake of the environment -- I should mosey by the local garage and see if they'll take it (like they do old oil).

G.

planeguy67

Here in Orange County (the one in California), the local landfill has a Household Hazardous Waste facility that accepts old oil, paint, pesticides, and other nasty stuff they DON'T want you throwing in the trash or pouring down the drain.

The cost is FREE, you just need to get it there. Check your area for the same.

BTW, nice DIY. A few questions:

1. Did you find that waxy crap ONLY in the float or was it in the reservoir as well?

2. Did your calipers bleed without a fight or were they plugged?

3. Is it safe to start the engine while the car is jacked up??? What do you have to watch out for???

4. Where does the ABS fluid go and how does it get there???


Thanks.

jcoll1

g_murray- You might also want to bleed the clutch slave cylinder, if you haven't done so already (didn't see it mentioned in your post). It is an easy DIY also.

p_carfan

Would you bleed the clutch slave before or after brakes?

g_murray

1> There was definitely waxy crap in the brake lines. When I would loosen each nipple - what first came out looked like earwax -- and it needed 'encouragement' to flow. Then what would come out looked just like normal old worn out brake fluid. But every so often I'd also see 'individual particulates' making their way down the clear tubing - leading me to conclude that there was additional crap 'between the resevoir and the caliper'.
2> All 8 nipples bled without a fight but the two rears definitely needed some 'encouragement' before the fluid would 'really' flow. So, instead of increasing the PowerBleeder pressure, I repeatedly 'tapped' on the brake pedal -- which definitely made the crud 'move'. Kinda like kick-startin' things!
3> I had no problem starting the car for 10 sec. or so with one side on the jack.
I just didn't get IN the car ...merely put my hand in thru' the window.
4> I had read that it's a good idea to turn on the ignition/start the engine so as to get fluid going thru' the ABS system - pumps - valves etc. Supposedly the action of actually having the engine _running_ ensures that EVERYTHING gets flushed thru' with new fluid.

Do note, tho', that although the little resevoir seems to hold only a small amount of fluid -- I actually went thru' TWO litre cans of fluid before there was clear blue 'everywhere'. So, if you are thinking of doing this DIY ...make sure you have some 'extra' fluid handy. Just don't open the (sealed) can until you actually do need it.

g_murray

I'll have to buy myself a pair of real beefy jackstands before I'll do THAT diy. I've read the clutch-bleed-diy and getting to the nipple (on top of the tranny) seems to be an 'Indiana-Jones-adventure' all by itself. Right now my clutch-action is fine. Yep, I know, right now, I've old fluid in the clutch-lines and new fluid in the brake-lines, but c'est la vie. Another day perhaps.

g_murray

Yep, having done this particular DIY I can see it working TWO ways:

i) if your fluid is still 'in date' and all you want to do is merely bleed the brakes then I would also ONLY fill the resevoir up to the top and use the the 'Motiv-PB' merely for its 'air-pressure qualities'.

ii) if your fluid is 'out of date' and/or no amount of bleeding is removing the 'squishy-cheese' syndrome from your brake pedal -- then I vote to fill up the 'motiv'PB'. Reason? You are FLUSHING ...not just 'bleeding' and the 'motiv-PB' will empty FIRST before your resevoir does. (And we all DON'T ever want the resevoir to go dry ....right?)

kkim

I'll suggest that if you are going to do a complete flush, use some cheap fluid through the system first, then after the fluid runs clean, use the good stuff to finish the job. Different color fluids help to see when all the old stuff is completely flushed. A lot less expensive than just using the good stuff during the flushing stage. As you found out, you can go through quite a bit of brake fluid doing a flush.

InTheAir

Good advice. I think in the Fall, I'll give it a go myself.

g_murray

Yep, yep, good advice. I would further 'refine' this advice by recommending buying some FRESH 'cheap' DOT-4 fluid tho'. Reason? Well, if you have some old DOT-4 lying around there's a good chance that it has already absorbed its fair share of moisture. If you use THAT to 'first clean out the system' you could be introducing water-molecules into everything -- which would be bad.

planeguy67

Thanks for the reply! I will definitely have to do the engine start thing next time I flush my system. Just to make sure I'm clear on this, you start the engine for 10 seconds AND tap the breaks after each caliper OR just one time?

After a few brake and clutch flushes on my 911 and 944, my rule is this:
"Estimate approximately how much fluid you're going to need and triple it!!!"

With that in mind, I also like the idea of initially flushing with El Cheapo brand (as long as it's DOT 3 or 4 and new) and following up with the good stuff.

Thanks again.

hn

I have the Motive at home too but haven't got a chance to use it so I am not sure how the unit works. So my dumb question is, where do all the air in the tube go when you transfer the new fluid to the resevoir?

Thanks.