The 5 HP Gadget
07-14-2005, 11:37 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by Red
Gary, your posts annoy me--you don't know everything. BTW, I'm not starting a flame war and I'm not going to respond if you say anything back trying to instigate something.
Red,
First, I am sorry my posts annoy you. Some others annoy me too, but I do not post about them and that they annoy me. Ill add you to my of annoying ignorant people list as well.
I only post negative when I feel a total outrages claim such as 5hp for $500. I have a few friends here, and once you get to know me, you know I am an enthusiast and hardcore when it comes to horsepower. As for my comments on this thread.
Prove me wrong then. Show me that the $500 is worth 5hp. Let me rephrase that. Show me that any car making under 320 WHP and charging $500 per 5hp is worth it.
I would like to see the before and after graphs on a dyno as well. This would have to be the same day to also rule out outside temps etc and anyone can fudge them anyway. Its a known fact that Porshce owners will pay anything for any gadget under $2000.
Most car forums make fun of us about this. This $500 part is prime example. I can link this link to some other car forums for them to read it, then link back to you guys the results.As for me saying this guy is annoying for selling his parts, I already knew he does not. I read his entire post, and the part is flawless in craftmanship. It is well worth it for a show car. As show cars need every part possible to get the edge on winning a show. But to say $500 for 5 HP and everyone jumping on to say it is a good deal... Yuck. That insults every car enthusiasts inteligence. $500 for 5 HP, especially in the beginning of any mods is a waste of money. And 5HP is not felt. if you were putting in a super charger for lets say $7000 which is also outrageous, at least you would be getting 50-60 WHP. At least that is something you can feel.
Anyway, I talk to few Porsche guys via the rennlist PM system. I like 95% of the guys here, but some guys really make us look bad between the ignorance and the bling bling factor. We can all agree some of the guys own porsche for the looks etc, while others track them and drive them on weekends because of the way they feel on the road. I love the way my 911 feels on the road.
-G
07-14-2005, 12:21 PM
#65
Gentlemen:
Arguing about something as trivial as this part, particularly as it is not for sale, seems pointless. We all have a right to our opinions.
As to cost, on the 10 made, my net cost was $617.40 each -- but this includes amortizing 100% of the cost of engineering the part for prescise fit, exact volume and weight reduction (this part weighs approximately 35% less than the original breather cover without the valve assembly) and machine programming. If there were subsequent parts (and there will not be for reasons that should be obvious), my cost would be approximately $300 each for this level of quality. However, for the record, this does not include development cost, dyno testing costs, nor my time.
This being said, as to cost per HP, if you look at the cost of, e.g., a 3.8 liter engine kit including installation and testing, I think you would find it to be a considerable multiple per HP. And if this was for a professional high end race series, the leading teams would pay thousands per HP for but 5.
Finally, you might be interested to know that of the 10 built, one will be going into a new engine being built by Porsche for a race car owned by Bob Snodgrass, the owner of Brumos, one will go into the personal Type 964 of one of Porsche's most senior engineers in Germany, two will go into my cars, two will go into Type 964 Cup Cars belonging to friends and one will go into a Type 993 owned by someone who asked for it a long time ago -- and each of these are gifts, not sales. As to the remaining three, one day I'll find a use for them.
Arguing about something as trivial as this part, particularly as it is not for sale, seems pointless. We all have a right to our opinions.
As to cost, on the 10 made, my net cost was $617.40 each -- but this includes amortizing 100% of the cost of engineering the part for prescise fit, exact volume and weight reduction (this part weighs approximately 35% less than the original breather cover without the valve assembly) and machine programming. If there were subsequent parts (and there will not be for reasons that should be obvious), my cost would be approximately $300 each for this level of quality. However, for the record, this does not include development cost, dyno testing costs, nor my time.
This being said, as to cost per HP, if you look at the cost of, e.g., a 3.8 liter engine kit including installation and testing, I think you would find it to be a considerable multiple per HP. And if this was for a professional high end race series, the leading teams would pay thousands per HP for but 5.
Finally, you might be interested to know that of the 10 built, one will be going into a new engine being built by Porsche for a race car owned by Bob Snodgrass, the owner of Brumos, one will go into the personal Type 964 of one of Porsche's most senior engineers in Germany, two will go into my cars, two will go into Type 964 Cup Cars belonging to friends and one will go into a Type 993 owned by someone who asked for it a long time ago -- and each of these are gifts, not sales. As to the remaining three, one day I'll find a use for them.
07-14-2005, 12:51 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Just in my opinion, a few definitions as I see them from a layperson's POV:
Rennlist - the museum of engineering, DIY, mods, buyer and new owner tips, and much more.
Research (only the R part of R&D) - what Robert and others such as Princeton do; we get a free viewing. As in an art museum, generally not for retail sale.
R&D - what Porsche and others do to get stuff into mass production for retail sale.
Budget - anything from the maintenance I pay to keep the 282 HP I bought, to what a race team will pay for 5 HP.
Viewer satisfaction - what I get from looking at Robert and others' stuff.
Rennlist - the museum of engineering, DIY, mods, buyer and new owner tips, and much more.
Research (only the R part of R&D) - what Robert and others such as Princeton do; we get a free viewing. As in an art museum, generally not for retail sale.
R&D - what Porsche and others do to get stuff into mass production for retail sale.
Budget - anything from the maintenance I pay to keep the 282 HP I bought, to what a race team will pay for 5 HP.
Viewer satisfaction - what I get from looking at Robert and others' stuff.
07-14-2005, 01:14 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by Robert Linton
two will go into Type 964 Cup Cars belonging to friends
Ok just kidding, very nice. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but it is very nice.
07-14-2005, 01:26 PM
#72
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Robert, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that is a choice rather than for health reasons. No I was just kidding about having to face some competition in PCA racing from other 964 Cups like mine, with this device on. I wish you the best. Thank you for showing this wonderful work.
Bill
Bill
LOL
07-14-2005, 01:34 PM
#74
Three Wheelin'
In vintage racing circuits, its not unheard of to spend $3-4K for an exhaust that could yield an additional 10hp. Try the $$$/hp formula there....
07-14-2005, 01:42 PM
#75
Indeed, if these were being sold in quantity and being made in accordance with methods appertaining thereto, the price with margin should be less than $300 each, i.e., $60 per HP and I would consider that reasonable by most standards ands very reasonable by others. Having said, even if one sold 1000 of these parts at $100 profit each, the time, effort and aggravation involved is not worth the effort given other uses of sales and production time --not to mention the other trials and tribulations of retail sales.