KOAN

Rather than continue on the misadventure previously known as "shot shocks", I have a related question. Does anyone have any idea how long PSS9s will last?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Chuck:

Good question,.....

FWIW, We've several customers with over 50K on the PSS-9's and still feeling great.

Basing things on 30 years of using various Bilstein products, I'd venture that these will go 80K-100K before needing replacement. This is factored by local road conditions (potholes-speedbumps) and how the car is driven.

KOAN

Steve,
Thanks. I guess when I replace them with a better system, like Motons, I won't be able to use that as an excuse. I'm not completely happy with the PSS9s and their range of adjustability for the track. I may be talking to you before long.

Pzkw993

Those PSS9s are terrible. You should PM me with a low, low price immediately and I will erase the shame of PSS9s from your car, hee hee.

ScottMellor

Over on that thread, MarkD mentioned that shock oil degrades and the shock might need rebuilding.

I have a set of Bilstein HDs and some Eibachs that have 25,000 miles on them over the last 4 years. Car is tracked occaisionally. Should I have them checked on a shock dyno to see if they need to be rebuilt?

If so, who can do that in SOCAL?

Father of 3

Scott, how do you like your setup - Eibach/HDs? I have Eibachs in my car now with stock shocks and have been contemplating just upgrading to HDs or more drastic other action.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Chuck:

Although I'm a big fan of PSS-9's for street use, they do indeed have serious limitations for serious track use and the valving package is certainly FAR from ideal. The lack of separate bump & rebound controls really makes itself obvious in that environment,....

The Motons are in an entirely different league and you definitely get what you pay for.



Scott:

Bilstein valving specs (different shaft speeds) are not comparable to anybody elses and I'd send them to Bilstein. They can dyno your shocks and tell you what shape they are in.

At 25K, they ought to be just fine.

ScottMellor

Fatherof3:

I have the generation of shock just prior to the PSS9 that is not adjustable. I love the setup.
The car is a little firm, but I find the handling to be very nice and forgiving. The car has, taken me from absolute raw beginner at the track to solid intermediate driver without ever giving me the feeling that it wanted to kill me.
If you want to meet up some time and take a ride, give me a shout.

KOAN

PZKW,
Thanks. Thats what I love about the Rennlist! Seriously, if I switch, are you interested? I have about 7-8k miles on them, and I've heard...that they last much longer. I also have custom hats that would go with them. Since you live in Ohio, you can have a ride in my car before I switch so you can get a feel for their range, if we get a break in the snow.

Ron

I asked what is outlined below in the other shocks thread but I could not find where it was answered. Does anyone know?

On the issue of the life of shocks.

How long will the aftermarket shocks last? Are both time and mileage considerations?

I ask because my 97 had H&R coilovers installed when it was new or a year later, I'd have to check my paperwork to be sure. I believe the shocks are Bilstein. The car now has 12,500 miles on it and the shocks seem fine, actually the suspension is stiffer than other 993 with regular shocks that I've driven.

Pzkw993

I would seriously be interested, so PM me when you think you are going to do something.

FWIW, I see Moton Club sports are down to $3099.

SundayDriver

There are different levels of what someone means when they talk about whether the shocks are still good or not. You have to evaluate the shocks relative to your expectations and abilities. Think about it this way:

1) For cruising around on the street in any old car or truck, you need the shocks to control wheel travel in a reasonable fashion. Like the old push on the fender test, if the vehicle isn't bouncing up and down a couple of times after a bump, then the shocks are fine. After 80,000 miles on my Excursion, the original shocks were shot, on this basis.

2) For more spirited driving, youi need better control. Can your car take a bumpy corner at .8 g's without dancing off the side of the road? Bumpy is relative, but if it can do that, then the shocks are probably fine for canyon driving and DE's. Your shocks will probably last 50,000 miles or more for this.

3) Are you ready to squeeze the last second out of the car? When you do a lap at the track, do you come back in knowing exactly how the car behaved at each PHASE of each CORNER? That is, are you aware of entry vs. mid-corner vs. exit? Are you always aware of where the weight is in the car? If someone changed tire pressure by 2psi without telling you what they did, would you feel it? Would you feel the difference between a couple of clicks on the shocks? If all these are yes, then you can make use of all the shock can give you.

In case #3, that means it must be double adjustable, or more to get exactly what you want. That means both bump and rebound are adjusted independently - it does not mean there are 2 clicks on a ****. PSS-9's are single adjustable shocks. That also means that the setting is not the same for any two tracks, and probably not for any two days on the same track. If you at this level then shock life is a whole other matter. In a street based car for serious DE, pushing hard - then your shocks are probably good for maybe 5-10,000 miles. If you are really racing and looking for every fraction in a very stiff car, then shock life is probably less than 1,000 miles.

My guess for you Scott is that the shocks are fine. When you start coming back from a track session thinking that the car never seemed to come back to you like you expect during a series of Esses, then you probably have shock issues. The best thing for you is to get someone like DJ to drive the car and tell you what he thinks the shocks are doing.

SundayDriver

If you see my post above, you can see that I am talking about a very different level than street driving. However, I wonder - have you ever dyno'd PPS-9's (or similar) new vs. 10-20,000 miles to see how much the damping curve changes?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Mark:

I've not dyno'ed PSS-9's with mileage on them, only new ones. From experience, I'd not expect any changes in NORMAL driving,.... Bilsteins will lose a little sharpness in 40K-50K miles under street conditions.

FWIW, we have a good number of customers using Motons on the street as well as the track and after 3-4 years, they doing quite well. We did install dust boots to protect the shaft seals. Needless to say, these cars are not daily drivers.

TheOtherEric

Chuck- motons now? Geesh, keeping up with the Jones's is getting increasingly difficult.