993 The Last True Porsche?
10-03-2004, 04:17 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
993 The Last True Porsche?
Im fairly new to these forums. In fact I only joined a few weeks ago as Im trying to sell my uncle's 996 for him. At any rate selling his makes me want my own! A C4s preferably. So Ive been reading through forums in the 996 area and here. Someone mentioned the 993 as being the last true porsche? Saying its hand built and aircooled - I knew they were aircooled but didnt know they were hand built.
Im curious to find more info on the 993. I love the look but Ive never been a huge fan of the interior.
What are the performance numbers like for something like a 97 C4S? How would they compare to a 99-01 996 C4? This is closer to where my price point would be most likely.
Just lookin for opinions
Thanks
Jeff
Im curious to find more info on the 993. I love the look but Ive never been a huge fan of the interior.
What are the performance numbers like for something like a 97 C4S? How would they compare to a 99-01 996 C4? This is closer to where my price point would be most likely.
Just lookin for opinions
Thanks
Jeff
10-03-2004, 05:30 AM
#2
Banned
If you are talking pure acceleration, the 996 should have the edge but it's a small difference which you would probably not notice. Unlike the looks and feel!
You really need to spend an hour or two with each car and their different characters should become apparent, and your choice will also become easier.
You really need to spend an hour or two with each car and their different characters should become apparent, and your choice will also become easier.
10-03-2004, 09:19 AM
#4
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Point-Counter Point. sgtpepper, from a pure speed perspective, you could go very fast for a whole lot less $ by buying a Corvette. Even a Mitsubishi Evo is a fast car.
Its true 996s are generally faster and more comfortable than 993s. Most of us buy 993s for the VERY special cars they are, there was never a car built like the air-cooled Porsches. Never were they copied in appearance or technological style. They were not mass produced. They are, in general, bullet proof. We like them as much for what they are not as for what they are. They are not your garden variety vehicle.
Now, a 996 is a nice automobile, quite comfortable, powerful, many more luxury features, I believe it is less expensive to maintain. Exp.: a new engine from Porsche, long block, with heads, alternator: ready to install runs less than $8k. On the other hand a 993 engine from Porsche, air-cooled, long block will run around $25k.
This illustrates why Porsche changed business models. Efficiency and profit. Coincidently, they halted their entire factory racing programs about the same time.
As Graham says, drive both cars; decide which one feels better to you. Buy that model, you can’t go wrong. From what I understand the model years 2002 and up have fewer issues. Talk to guys on the 996 forum about this. Happy hunting.
Its true 996s are generally faster and more comfortable than 993s. Most of us buy 993s for the VERY special cars they are, there was never a car built like the air-cooled Porsches. Never were they copied in appearance or technological style. They were not mass produced. They are, in general, bullet proof. We like them as much for what they are not as for what they are. They are not your garden variety vehicle.
Now, a 996 is a nice automobile, quite comfortable, powerful, many more luxury features, I believe it is less expensive to maintain. Exp.: a new engine from Porsche, long block, with heads, alternator: ready to install runs less than $8k. On the other hand a 993 engine from Porsche, air-cooled, long block will run around $25k.
This illustrates why Porsche changed business models. Efficiency and profit. Coincidently, they halted their entire factory racing programs about the same time.
As Graham says, drive both cars; decide which one feels better to you. Buy that model, you can’t go wrong. From what I understand the model years 2002 and up have fewer issues. Talk to guys on the 996 forum about this. Happy hunting.
10-03-2004, 09:58 AM
#5
Lifetime Rennlist
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As I recalll Porsche had already adopted a fair amount of automated assembly for the 993.
Not nearly as much as the 996, though. I think the 964 would better be called "the last hand-built 911".
When the 993 was introduced, the factory actually passed along the cost saviings (different management) and a comparable 993 stickered for less than a 964.
Not nearly as much as the 996, though. I think the 964 would better be called "the last hand-built 911".
When the 993 was introduced, the factory actually passed along the cost saviings (different management) and a comparable 993 stickered for less than a 964.
10-03-2004, 11:05 AM
#6
Nordschleife Master
i think of this in terms of comfort, sophistication, modern technology, advancements, etc. for anyone who has driven a late year model 996 and put it through paces, i think you have to admit, it is a far more advanced sportscar than the 993... particularly when equipped with items like the stock sport shifter option (the quick cable throws are SOOO sweet). the 996 is more comfortable, faster, with better technology,etc.
having said all that , the 993, IMO is like a German version of a good old muscle car. the sounds, the smells, the feel, the uniqueness of the car, make it more desireable for an enthusiast IMO. it LOOKS 10 times better than the 996, and 5 times better than the 997 :-)
i drove both, and was almost drawn to the 996 for its performance....but you owe it to yourself to spend some time in the seat of a 993... its a great experience.
having said all that , the 993, IMO is like a German version of a good old muscle car. the sounds, the smells, the feel, the uniqueness of the car, make it more desireable for an enthusiast IMO. it LOOKS 10 times better than the 996, and 5 times better than the 997 :-)
i drove both, and was almost drawn to the 996 for its performance....but you owe it to yourself to spend some time in the seat of a 993... its a great experience.
10-03-2004, 11:46 AM
#7
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Without a doubt, the 996 is a great car, especially the GT-3. But comparing a standard coupe to coupe, the 993 is just more fun, at least to my buttometer.
If performance and comfort is what matters to you, then the 996.
If it's visceral thrills that makes you buzz, then the 993.
Best of all, we each get to choose.
What a country.
If performance and comfort is what matters to you, then the 996.
If it's visceral thrills that makes you buzz, then the 993.
Best of all, we each get to choose.
What a country.
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10-03-2004, 01:14 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
What a civilized board we have. Nice going, guys. Sgtpeper, the only way for you to know is to drive both for a day, or at least an hour! You'll know. When I see a 996, I think - nice, but bland. When I see a 993 on the road, I think - WOW 
After I see a 993 on the road, which is rare in my area, I notice my neck hurts from visually following the car till it finally, unfortunately leaves my field of vision. Then I'm sad to see it go... Then I'm happy when I absentmindedly remember that I own the exact same model of car. Then I think, "Thank god I've been fortunate enough to own such a beautiful, fun to drive classic".
When I see a 996 I don't think - classic. I think - oh, there's a nice, new Porsche - cool. Most of the time I wave at them. Most of the time they don't wave back. When I see a 993 on the road - I wave, and almost always they'll wave back. Same with a 964, or 911 Carrera - they usually wave. We're part of that secret, air cooled "club".
Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with a 996. Of course they are awesome cars. They are more comfortable, have even better A/C (though mine works great!), are faster, shift more easily, etc. BUT, when I drove one and then got out of it, visually it didn't work for me at all. It didn't make my blood boil like when I look back at my 993 after parking it. My decision was totally based on exterior looks, as I did find the interior of the 996 to be very satisfying. The 997 doesn't do it for me either, thank god! Now I don't have to lust after any of the new cars, as my car still is #1 on the list of cars I'd want, for me.
My 2 cents. Good luck in your search. May I ask how old you are, Sgtpeper? I had to wait till I was 35 to get my 1st 911, an 88 Carrera, and kept it for 5 years. Many young guys are luckier than me, getting their's much younger!
So here's the decision in black and white (color)...
In this corner, my car:
and in this corner, the 996
You have to decide... they're both nice. See that bulge over the rear wheels on my car, that's what sold me! That little bulge. Crazy, isn't it? Mine looks prehistoric compared to the 996! Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.
Steve
After I see a 993 on the road, which is rare in my area, I notice my neck hurts from visually following the car till it finally, unfortunately leaves my field of vision. Then I'm sad to see it go... Then I'm happy when I absentmindedly remember that I own the exact same model of car. Then I think, "Thank god I've been fortunate enough to own such a beautiful, fun to drive classic".
When I see a 996 I don't think - classic. I think - oh, there's a nice, new Porsche - cool. Most of the time I wave at them. Most of the time they don't wave back. When I see a 993 on the road - I wave, and almost always they'll wave back. Same with a 964, or 911 Carrera - they usually wave. We're part of that secret, air cooled "club".
Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with a 996. Of course they are awesome cars. They are more comfortable, have even better A/C (though mine works great!), are faster, shift more easily, etc. BUT, when I drove one and then got out of it, visually it didn't work for me at all. It didn't make my blood boil like when I look back at my 993 after parking it. My decision was totally based on exterior looks, as I did find the interior of the 996 to be very satisfying. The 997 doesn't do it for me either, thank god! Now I don't have to lust after any of the new cars, as my car still is #1 on the list of cars I'd want, for me.
My 2 cents. Good luck in your search. May I ask how old you are, Sgtpeper? I had to wait till I was 35 to get my 1st 911, an 88 Carrera, and kept it for 5 years. Many young guys are luckier than me, getting their's much younger!
So here's the decision in black and white (color)...
In this corner, my car:
and in this corner, the 996
You have to decide... they're both nice. See that bulge over the rear wheels on my car, that's what sold me! That little bulge. Crazy, isn't it? Mine looks prehistoric compared to the 996! Beauty's in the eye of the beholder.
Steve
10-03-2004, 01:26 PM
#9
356 was the last true Porsche. No, it was the long-nose pre-'74 911. No, it was the '89 Carrera...
Happens every generation. They're all great, each generation increasing in refinement and performance. Typically, owners of the previous generation(s) feel the car has lost elements of its soul and is less visceral. Refinement does make the car less quirky; to some that decreases its character. To many, the 993 is best balance of all -- it still retains much of the traditional "Porscheness" but is still refined enough (air conditioning that works, for example) to use as a real car for every day transporation. The newer cars really are better performing but have more "stuff" and complexity that makes them (to us) less pure, but definately appeals to a broader market. Because of that "stuff" and the extra complexity, these newer cars are scarier to own out of warranty. I think they are less "car guy" cars that one buys and keeps and more "just another car" that those with means buy to use as their regular car, then replace with another new one after a couple of years -- still great performers but not keepers in the same way the early, less complicated Porsches are. I wish I could have an example of each generation in my garage.
I believe the 964 series ('89 - '94) was the generation Porsche first used the Japanese consultants to revamp their inefficient production line.
Happens every generation. They're all great, each generation increasing in refinement and performance. Typically, owners of the previous generation(s) feel the car has lost elements of its soul and is less visceral. Refinement does make the car less quirky; to some that decreases its character. To many, the 993 is best balance of all -- it still retains much of the traditional "Porscheness" but is still refined enough (air conditioning that works, for example) to use as a real car for every day transporation. The newer cars really are better performing but have more "stuff" and complexity that makes them (to us) less pure, but definately appeals to a broader market. Because of that "stuff" and the extra complexity, these newer cars are scarier to own out of warranty. I think they are less "car guy" cars that one buys and keeps and more "just another car" that those with means buy to use as their regular car, then replace with another new one after a couple of years -- still great performers but not keepers in the same way the early, less complicated Porsches are. I wish I could have an example of each generation in my garage.
I believe the 964 series ('89 - '94) was the generation Porsche first used the Japanese consultants to revamp their inefficient production line.
10-03-2004, 01:27 PM
#10
Race Car
Steve,
I do not consider that the 993 looks prehistoric. I have had neighbors ask me if my car is new... They can't believe it is 8 years old. The 996 depicted has the a different, GT3-like front spoiler. I personally do not like the slab-liike sides, even if the original 911 had them...
I do not consider that the 993 looks prehistoric. I have had neighbors ask me if my car is new... They can't believe it is 8 years old. The 996 depicted has the a different, GT3-like front spoiler. I personally do not like the slab-liike sides, even if the original 911 had them...
10-03-2004, 01:40 PM
#11
John,
I always thought that the Japanese got involved in production refinements in 94 with the introduction of the 993. I may be wrong but I don't think their involvement initiated with the 964. I am curious as to a definitive answer to this query.
I always thought that the Japanese got involved in production refinements in 94 with the introduction of the 993. I may be wrong but I don't think their involvement initiated with the 964. I am curious as to a definitive answer to this query.
10-03-2004, 01:51 PM
#12
Addict
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993 The Last True Porsche - factually this is incorrect so the answer is "no". That being said, I think a lowered 996TT with nice wheels is a beautiful car, and the GT2/GT3 are great cars to drive. If I were choosing between a basic 996 coupe and a basic 993 coupe I would choose the 993. I like the exterior way better, I like the old style interior, I like the sound, smell and feel of the 993. The only area of interest to me that the 996 is better than the 993 is in leg room and the comfort of the driver and passenger seating position.
10-03-2004, 02:19 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
OK - I'll admit it... I always did love the look of a Silver 996 TT with black interior - just don't tell anyone I said so 
. It's the base car I don't find that appealing. I can't afford a used 96 TT yet, so it's a non-issue for me.
I "guess" I could live with this 2002 car if I had to...bad pics, but you get the idea.
. It's the base car I don't find that appealing. I can't afford a used 96 TT yet, so it's a non-issue for me.I "guess" I could live with this 2002 car if I had to...bad pics, but you get the idea.
10-03-2004, 02:47 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Thank you for so many wonderful responses.
For those that are wondering I am quite the young'n - Im 23. Finishing school this year. Im looking for a porsche - not saying I can afford one quite yet
Its funny because when I started college I thought "Man when I get out the first thing Im gonna do is buy a nice car" But now I think about buying a condo so I dont have to live with my parents ever again! And that statement might even be stranger from me if you knew what a car freak I am - having been through 14 cars since I was 14. And only the first one was bought by my parents - but it only cost 225
My car history is a bit strange as my tastes changed as I grew up. First car was a 79 Beetle convertible that I was actually building a porsche 2.0 engine for before I decided to sell it. For 225 this was the BEST car ever After that I stayed with VW and had a Scirocco 16v that I bought for 900 bucks that a doctor had owned and had autocrossed so it was modified to hell. If some jerk hadnt hit me in that I might actually still own it - such a fun car to drive even if it wasnt THAT powerful. Well by then I was 16-17 so of course I wanted more power so I got into supra turbos - mk3s not the TT mk4s. Blew a few head gaskets - common problem - and decided to say bye bye to those clunkers. So I found a 95 Eclipse GSX preeeetty cheap - 3700 (dont ask it was a strange deal - no it wasnt stolen!) Car was mint so I went for it. Modified the suspension - bc power to me comes last, handling is way more fun I had such a blast with the car. But at that point I was going to school at Purdue and if anyone know what kind of hicks are there.. man are they... and being a city boy from chicago it was a whole new world. Well I got caught up in it and bought myself a 97 Cobra Convertible. That fit the bill for power. But it handled worse than anything Ive EVER owned. But chicks loved it and with the top down it was fantastic. Then I decided Id had enough hickville fun so I transferred to CU in colorado. Being from the midwest I thought Id need an SUV for sure. So I took a bath on the cobra and bought (ugh my worst decision to date) a '00 ZR2 Blazer (I had 2 weeks to get a new car before I moved) And since depreciation on american cars is sooo wonderful Im now stuck with it until I start working again. Since I pay for tuition out here itll be a long time before I sell this stupid thing off
But I grew up in a family with crazy english cars. My personal dream car will always be a series 1-2 XKE. Triumph TR250s have always gotten the best of me as well. Point is Ive always been drawn to quirky cars I like things that have some element of exclusivity (sp). My dads daily driver is an alfa romeo spider. Slow car but quite fun to drive. I love pulling up to a light and seeing a fellow spider owner and the waves and honks that it creates.
So all this was a round about way to say why the 993 will appeal to me as soon as I have the money around... Doesnt mean I cant start looking now
Thanks for all the info from everyone again. And I will keep reading and posting until the glorious day I buy my first porsche.
Thanks for reading my novel of a post,
Jeff
For those that are wondering I am quite the young'n - Im 23. Finishing school this year. Im looking for a porsche - not saying I can afford one quite yet
Its funny because when I started college I thought "Man when I get out the first thing Im gonna do is buy a nice car" But now I think about buying a condo so I dont have to live with my parents ever again! And that statement might even be stranger from me if you knew what a car freak I am - having been through 14 cars since I was 14. And only the first one was bought by my parents - but it only cost 225
My car history is a bit strange as my tastes changed as I grew up. First car was a 79 Beetle convertible that I was actually building a porsche 2.0 engine for before I decided to sell it. For 225 this was the BEST car ever
After that I stayed with VW and had a Scirocco 16v that I bought for 900 bucks that a doctor had owned and had autocrossed so it was modified to hell. If some jerk hadnt hit me in that I might actually still own it - such a fun car to drive even if it wasnt THAT powerful. Well by then I was 16-17 so of course I wanted more power so I got into supra turbos - mk3s not the TT mk4s. Blew a few head gaskets - common problem - and decided to say bye bye to those clunkers. So I found a 95 Eclipse GSX preeeetty cheap - 3700 (dont ask it was a strange deal - no it wasnt stolen!) Car was mint so I went for it. Modified the suspension - bc power to me comes last, handling is way more fun I had such a blast with the car. But at that point I was going to school at Purdue and if anyone know what kind of hicks are there.. man are they... and being a city boy from chicago it was a whole new world. Well I got caught up in it and bought myself a 97 Cobra Convertible. That fit the bill for power. But it handled worse than anything Ive EVER owned. But chicks loved it and with the top down it was fantastic. Then I decided Id had enough hickville fun so I transferred to CU in colorado. Being from the midwest I thought Id need an SUV for sure. So I took a bath on the cobra and bought (ugh my worst decision to date) a '00 ZR2 Blazer (I had 2 weeks to get a new car before I moved) And since depreciation on american cars is sooo wonderful Im now stuck with it until I start working again. Since I pay for tuition out here itll be a long time before I sell this stupid thing off But I grew up in a family with crazy english cars. My personal dream car will always be a series 1-2 XKE. Triumph TR250s have always gotten the best of me as well. Point is Ive always been drawn to quirky cars
I like things that have some element of exclusivity (sp). My dads daily driver is an alfa romeo spider. Slow car but quite fun to drive. I love pulling up to a light and seeing a fellow spider owner and the waves and honks that it creates. So all this was a round about way to say why the 993 will appeal to me as soon as I have the money around... Doesnt mean I cant start looking now
Thanks for all the info from everyone again. And I will keep reading and posting until the glorious day I buy my first porsche.
Thanks for reading my novel of a post,
Jeff