JJG

Anyone install a Brey Krause fire bottle mount and dual sub-belt hardware on the same front seat rail bolts (stock '96 993 seats)? My problem has been that I need to leave the rear seat rail bolts loose so I have some play in the rail while I slip the bottle and sub-belt hardware under the front of the seat rail. But with the fire bottle mount installed, I can't move the seat forward enough to expose the rear seat rail bolts.

I've also used some washers in the rear of both seats in order to match the thickness of the hardware under the seat rail (so the seat rail remains roughly level). However, I'm worried that I'm getting enough "bite" out of the existing seat rail bolts - especially in the rear where the bolts screw into the body metal. Are there longer bolts that I can buy? Any suggestions? TIA

Jeff

E. J. - 993 Alumni

You will have to call a metal supply company or a very good hardware store with lots of bolts to ind the right pattern and then just buy a longer bolt. I use regular bolts for my race seat - won't work for you though since you need the allen bolt head. Best bet is to find a shop like listed above in the phonebook and call them. Maybe a fab shop will know a good local place for bolts and hardware. Then you will have to bring in a bolt and have them mathc the thread pattern and make them a little longer. They might have to special order them - my place didnt have any of the allen head type - only regular bolts. Also tell them its for a car seat so you get grade 8 or better.

I cant for the life of me remember the actual thread type - I THINK it's 8x1.25x20 but I am sure that is not exactly correct. The place will be able to tell from the bolt you bring them.

Good luck,

E. J.

JJG

Thanks E.J., that's the suggestion I got from the dealer and others. I will try a local industrial supply shop on the bolts and will post my results if successful.

I'm still anxious to hear solutions to the bottle-mount/sub-belt mount problem. I guess I can always go to a 5-point configuration for the passenger seat and mount a bolt in the floor. Though I'm really trying to avoid this (perhaps at an irrational cost).

jjg

JJG

"I wonder if the BK mount will work on the rear bolts and if you can access it while belted..."

Good question, but I think the answer is no. While belted I can barely reach the wheel and stick. Actually, I'm wondering if the sub-belt mounts can be installed to the rear mounting bolts. The belts are really long and it seems like it would accomplish the same thing.


"But, I bet it would be "fun" to determine what the order of installs has to be to access all of the bolts...(*he says after messing with front/rear bolts several times...when doing the BK install*)..."

My thoughts exactly. Well, actually they were: 1)Would this outcome be different if I had continued with the engineering degree as planned; 2) Should I feel bad if the DIY says install time is 5 minutes and I'm now into it 1 hour,; and 3) I think I'll have another Corona.

PeanutinCA

JJG,
I hope I'm not stating the obvious, you did take the bottle out of the mount when trying to slide your seat forward right? I had the BK Ext. mount and was able to get it in and all rear bolts tightened? But I don't have the sub belt mount so can't help there. As for attaching the sub belt to the seat mounts, in some applications (clubs) this is not allowed so check the rules first.

Cheers,
Dylan.

PeanutinCA

[quote]Originally posted by Silver Bullet:
<strong>Dylan - I tried that too, but still couldn't get it far enough forward to reach the rear bolts.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe I'm telling a big fat lie then? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> I have a race seat in there now so I'm trying to think back to when I had the stock seat? If your were to tighten down the rear bolts completely, is there not enoughflex to then lift the front of the seat to slide the BK mount under? If not, could you place something under the seat rail at the front to hold it up, tighten rear bolts, then slide BK mount under and then remove whatever you used as the spacer?

Sorry for my previous possible lies, I've taken my medication now!! <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Dylan.

JJG

Dylan,
The problem is the top seat rail (the piece attached to the seat that slides along the rail that is bolted to the floor) eventually hits the square flange on the bottle mount (the piece that slides under the seat rail). In another 1/4", the seat motor would impact the BK mounting plate.

I think I could slide the fire bottle mount under the seat rail with the rear bottles tight but not the sub-belt mounts too. There's just no flex to the seat rail (a good thing, I'm sure).

I'm going to try a couple things: 1) place a couple of washers under the front seat rail mounts, then move the seat forward and tighten the rear bolts, then move the seat rearward, kick out the washers in front, and insert the bottle and sub-belt mounts. Sounds too easy. 2) see if I can find longer seat rail bolts; and 3) if that fails, look to mount bottle behind seat.

Finally, on the issue of safety rules, it appears as though this common solution to sub-belt mounting is ok for at least DEs. I don't know about TTs or club racing, but I'm guessing it applies as well. According to my club rules:

<a href="http://www.pcasd.org/clubrace/DE%20rules-1-30-02%20rev.doc" target="_blank">PCASDR</a> 3) Guidelines for mounting restraint systems Hardware should meet or exceed the strength of standard DOT or SAE approved type. Example: Forged eye bolts with 7/16" SAE threads. The Brey-Krause R-9001 Tunnel Side Seat Belt Mount Kit is acceptable for 1985 and later 944, 1985-1989 Carrera, 964, 968, 993, 996 and Boxster models. The driver shall certify that the device is an approved Brey-Krause device, and that the seat, seat track and track mount are stock and in good condition. All seatbelt attachments must be made in a safe and workman like manner, subject to the approval of the technical inspector. All attachments to sheet metal portions of the car must have adequate backing plates. Lap belts should be mounted to approximately bisect the angle between the thigh and the spine as viewed from the side. Competition harnesses should be mounted so that the rearward horizontal portion leaves the shoulders at an angle of approximately 90 degrees to the spine as viewed from the side. Only one (1) mounting per mounting point. Clip in safety harness components must be safety wired. A single anti-submarine strap may be mounted through the sheet metal of the floor with an adequate backing plate, or may be mounted to a metal bar bolted beneath the front seat rail bolts. Double antisubmarine straps may be mounted beneath the rear seat rail bolts, one on each side.

Jeff

David '96 993

I feel your pain. I used the Dylan approach and tightened the rear bolts and had to use alot (I mean alot) of elbow grease to flex the seat rails to fit both the sub-belts and extinguisher mount.

It was tough, took longer than 5 minutes, involved alot of colorful language (getting all of the holes lined up while flexing the rails is a royal PITA) but finally worked. Make sure you have enough cold beer. After I got it all together, the seats forward motion was so limited that I took off the extinguisher mount. I ended up attaching the extinguisher to the harness guide bar with two extinguisher brackets/clamps (instead of the ususal one) for safety. Hopefully it will not become a missile if there is ever impact

JJG

With the spacers, hopefully, I shouldn't need to rely on "flex". The way I solved the front mounting bolt hole alignment problem was to stick a small allen wrench in the unused rearward bolt hole. Then the little zinc plate with the threads couldn't move around as much.

All, please email privately any new cuss words that you may have developed with this or other similar projects. I used mine all up yesterday afternoon and am concerned I'll be unarmed for the finale. I've generally covered sexual preferences, maternity, paternity and combinations thereof. My wife banned the kids from the garage. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Jeff

Flying Finn

[quote]Originally posted by PeanutinCA:
[QB]...If your were to tighten down the rear bolts completely, is there not enoughflex to then lift the front of the seat to slide the BK mount under?...QB]<hr></blockquote>

At least I was able to do that (without Shaq helping me to lift the seat front) easily.