Phil

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mark in Baltimore:
<strong>Of course you can express your feelings, Phil. Why, you just have. And no, you're not wrong.

I just think it's always important to seek balance and objectivity. Not being able to see the other side generally seems to plant the seeds for future conflict.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">screwem......BOMB them!!!MOAB'
Relax...I am just being a Clown!!..

ZAMIRZ

Phil,

I am an American of Iranian descent, born and raised in this beautiful country.

I'm from Iran, and I go back for the summer every other year or so. It's surprisingly good times, and I find that I party harder there than I do here in So Cal. Not sure why I'd want to go to Iraq, I don't speak Arabic, only farsi.

The reason my family chose the USA was purely economical. At the time, the USA had the best education to offer and Iran's pending regime change made the idea seem even better. You probably don't care, but my mother came here and went to USC in southern California and my dad studied in England for a while and then came to Florida and went to FSU where he earned his accounting degree. At the time, money was no object because the Rial in Iran was unbelievably strong and my grandpa had a healthy amount of disposable income.

Yes, my dad knows about me, I only live in his house. We share some political opinions, but for the most part he would probably agree with you.

Phil, a difference of opinion is fine and I was expecting to get chewed out for what I said, but would you please keep it at least half-civilized?

mdsqwerty

I wish we didn't have to goto war. I can't picture my friends holding guns while dressed up in a camoflage out fit...and then picture some of them with a hole the size of a soda can in their head. I'm only 18 but thats the prime age to send people off to war...I'm only 18...

Cloud964

Thank god for having Bush as our president during these difficult times.
And to our troops : may god bless you all !!

Rob O'Meara

I'm intrigued that there are no dissenting voices on this thread. I'm 100% an ally of the United States and would readily lay my life down for the liberty and survival of the American people (I have a military background). However I don't see how a tinpot third-world nation thousands of miles away offers any threat to that. There has never been any link shown between Al Qaeda and Iraq.

Now that the fighting is about to start I think you should spare a thought for all the people that will die in the process of removing Saddam. Would you die for this cause? This is a job for the CIA, not massed conflict. The real fight confronting America and Britain is North Korea IMHO.

U.N. - RIP

rob

Barney

I'm very sad about the hypocrisie of the politicians of Europe. Letting national interests, and the pettiest at that, determine their votes in the UN, is a disgrace. It just shows how tremendously divided Europe is. What they have demonstrated on an external affair also applies to their internal dealings, where the big guys make the rules. All the innuendo (true or not) over here about the US's hidden agenda for Iraq, but nothing about France and Germany's hidden agendas with respect to Iraq. Sure, the US (and the UK and Spain) is not very consistent when it comes to removing leaders that have shown disrespect for their own people or their neighboring countries. Why Saddam and not ... (you name them) ? I pity the people that complain about other people doing their dirty work, but enjoying the fruits of that work nevertheless. As the others I hope that loss of life will be minimal, and that the world will be a better place after this war.

Greg H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Rolo:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JonSeigel:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 993Widebody:
<strong> Doing what is right when it is unpopular to do so is what a leader is all about, unlike an un-named past president that did whatever would make him look good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I assume you're talking about Reagan. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Reagan would surely apply to the first part, But thinking folks understood he was refering to Bill Clinton in the last part....But you may have missed that???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't think his mobilizing NATO to take action in the former Yugoslavia made him look particularly good. I suppose you all were behind him on that.

Greg

graham_mitchell

someone PLEASE move this to Off Topic where this fight has been raging for months now...

993Widebody

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg H.:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Rolo:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JonSeigel:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 993Widebody:
<strong> Doing what is right when it is unpopular to do so is what a leader is all about, unlike an un-named past president that did whatever would make him look good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I assume you're talking about Reagan. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Reagan would surely apply to the first part, But thinking folks understood he was refering to Bill Clinton in the last part....But you may have missed that???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't think his mobilizing NATO to take action in the former Yugoslavia made him look particularly good. I suppose you all were behind him on that.

Greg</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually, it didn't make him look all that bad and was a good deterent from the Monica scandal.
I think Bill Clinton made policy whenever it was in his interest and his interests were to be worshipped, so to speak.

I am very pleased to see most of my fellow rennlisters are on board with the President's decision and not the other way around. The bottom line is nobody wants war, however 12 years of diplomacy has not achieved it's goal. Maybe if we could keep our 250k troops surrounding Iraq for another year or two we could disarm Saddam. But then Saddam would still be in power and he could start the same things over again. The Iraqi people will be better off regardless of their new leadership since it will have a side-effect of lifting sanctions on Iraq which over time will be a wealthy country.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JonSeigel:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 993Widebody:
<strong> Doing what is right when it is unpopular to do so is what a leader is all about, unlike an un-named past president that did whatever would make him look good.</strong>

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I assume you're talking about Reagan. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You *******. I guess ridding the world of communism was a ploy to make him look good?

JonSeigel

Very impressive E.J., calling me an ******* because I pointed out something well known to anyone who remembers that time. I am in awe of your debating skills. Did you earn a PhD using such skillful tactics? Fact: Michael Deaver wrote a book admitting to staging virtually everything Reagan did. I guess he's an ******* too.

stedge

Many of you are being rude, and for that I scold you. As some have said, freedom - of speech, of opinion, of religion, etc - is what this is all supposed to be about, anyway. So, be tolerant.

As far as war with Iraq - I do believe it is misguided. Though in some small way I respect Bush for holding to his beliefs, I personally think they are misguided. Iraq does not equal Al Quaeda. And the previous post suggesting CIA or some other less garish method makes more sense, if ridding the world of Saddam is the goal of the US. Frankly, I also agree North Korea is far more problematic. And I think numerous middle eastern countries are more problematic, in the long run, and other methods are necessary to help lead them toward democracy. I won't go so far to say I question Bush's motivation, but that is still a tough call.

For what it's worht, the UN is terribly weakened and almost worthless, when you have certain countries in charge of human rights, for example! But in any case, it makes more sense to me to revive and restructure the UN, make it what it should be, rather than leave it as it is, which is pretty worthless right now.

Finally, you are kidding yourself if you don't believe this war will lead to greater reprisals against the US. More young ones recruited into terrorist organizations, more "moderate" groups calling for folks to join the war against America, etc, etc. Many more people are going to die, like those who died in 9/11. The war might (might) go quickly in Iraq, but innocents around the world will be paying for it for a long time.

And - not that it is terribly important in the face of war and death - but the little blip in the market is just that. It will tank when Iraq last longer than expected, or there is another terrorist attack on our soil.

So, flame me, send me to France, whatever. I respect your opinions, but disagree with the methods we are currently employing. I love this country. I just don't happen to agree with the current leadership. I do hope our troops are not sent in harm's way, and if they are, I support them and hope they come home safe.

I am most worried about what this will mean for my children. Will they be the ones in some building or on some bridge, when terror strikes? And blowing away Saddam this way (again, it's the method that's wrong) will put lots of our kids in the sights... And we still have North Korea...

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Was the fall of communism staged? Did David Copperfield make the statue of Stalin disappear for a little while?

Your left wing drivel makes me glad to be a conservative. As long as democrats like you continue to be outspoken, the Republicans will enjoy the power. So I guess I should thank you.

BTW - I don't think you could have purchased your 964 in Communist Russia.

JonSeigel

Ah, E.J., so if I don't agree with you, not only am I am "*******," but I'm also a "communist." Actually, I'm not even a liberal, let alone a communist. Hell, I'm a lawyer who represents *property owners* and who believes that there is far too much government regulation of my clients. Pretty odd job for a "communist" or a liberal for that matter.

Unfortunately, while most of the posts here involve well thought out, reasonable positions, some posters, like you, resort to personal insults and, in your case, *baseless* generalizations.

My point was that politicians of the left and right coddle public opinion. I am tired of you and others acting as if Clinton was unique in doing so.

stedge

Didn't Rodney King say something that could be applied here?