suspension
03-16-2003, 03:40 AM
#1
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suspension
I wish I could go through the past topics to find something that i'm looking for but there's too many and this is just a lot easier.
I'm looking for better, more solid handling, i saw websites all over telling me what kind of suspension is good for what kind of driver. What i don't understand is all the different stuff that people are mentioning.
I've heard a great deal about the Pss9's and its adjustable settings. I'm leaning towards purchasing a kit for myself. Does anyone know what is included in this kit, sway bars and tie bars arn't included right?(i saw a picture of them together somewhere...)
What kind of combination is good with this kit?, like springs, I heard Eibach and H&R are good springs but what works best with pss9's.
Also i saw a post on "hats" for the pss9's and a problem invovled...can someone give me a quick clarification on what the "hats" are and what caused the problem?
And if sway and tie bars arn't included in the pss9 kit, which ones provide better handling for a 97 c2. I heard how certain thickness can give understeer or overstee.
i'm sooooo lost
I'm looking for better, more solid handling, i saw websites all over telling me what kind of suspension is good for what kind of driver. What i don't understand is all the different stuff that people are mentioning.
I've heard a great deal about the Pss9's and its adjustable settings. I'm leaning towards purchasing a kit for myself. Does anyone know what is included in this kit, sway bars and tie bars arn't included right?(i saw a picture of them together somewhere...)
What kind of combination is good with this kit?, like springs, I heard Eibach and H&R are good springs but what works best with pss9's.
Also i saw a post on "hats" for the pss9's and a problem invovled...can someone give me a quick clarification on what the "hats" are and what caused the problem?
And if sway and tie bars arn't included in the pss9 kit, which ones provide better handling for a 97 c2. I heard how certain thickness can give understeer or overstee.
i'm sooooo lost
03-16-2003, 04:28 AM
#2
RL Technical Advisor
Dear SOOO Lost,..... 
You asked a heapa great questions here and I'd reply by asking what you do with your car.
Street only? Doing some DE events? Daily driver? Local road conditions?
Many folks here have some good solutions and I'd offer a few general suggestions. Your best choice is determined by what you expect the car to do and how you use it.
1) Bilstein HD Shock with H&R or Eibach Sport Springs
2) Bilstein PSS-9 Coilovers. These are complete units with dual springs (main & tender) and matching adjustable shocks.
Personally, I'd strongly suggest installing the larger RS Adjustable Swaybars for their ability to allow the understeer/oversteer balance to be changed to your preferences and skills. I use & recommend the Factory RS bars, only. These are 25mm front, 5-way and 20mm rear, 3-way adjustable bars.
I also recommend a front strut tower brace on all 993's.
You would not need the custom rear spring perches (hats) if you use the #1 option but the PSS-9's do function better and "feel" better with those things. These eliminate the excess flexing on the upper OEM rubber mounts when the PSS-9 perch rests against them.
Hope this helps clarify your questions.
You asked a heapa great questions here and I'd reply by asking what you do with your car.
Street only? Doing some DE events? Daily driver? Local road conditions?
Many folks here have some good solutions and I'd offer a few general suggestions. Your best choice is determined by what you expect the car to do and how you use it.
1) Bilstein HD Shock with H&R or Eibach Sport Springs
2) Bilstein PSS-9 Coilovers. These are complete units with dual springs (main & tender) and matching adjustable shocks.
Personally, I'd strongly suggest installing the larger RS Adjustable Swaybars for their ability to allow the understeer/oversteer balance to be changed to your preferences and skills. I use & recommend the Factory RS bars, only. These are 25mm front, 5-way and 20mm rear, 3-way adjustable bars.
I also recommend a front strut tower brace on all 993's.
You would not need the custom rear spring perches (hats) if you use the #1 option but the PSS-9's do function better and "feel" better with those things. These eliminate the excess flexing on the upper OEM rubber mounts when the PSS-9 perch rests against them.
Hope this helps clarify your questions.
03-16-2003, 12:30 PM
#3
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wow thanks, that really helped me a lot, just another question...is it better to buy these parts brand new or can i go with buying it used if say the condition was "LIKE NEW, EXCELLENT CONDITION". I mean of course a lot of people are going to say that but if they really are in that condition, is it safe or am i better of buying brand new.
oh yeah, and i usually take the car out in the hills every week where there are a lot of turns, twists and whatnot. But i'm planning on getting a scca membership during the summer when i'm more free.
oh yeah, and i usually take the car out in the hills every week where there are a lot of turns, twists and whatnot. But i'm planning on getting a scca membership during the summer when i'm more free.
03-16-2003, 12:36 PM
#4
Unless you're comfortable with knowing what to look for to determine the condition of a used/like new part, I would buy new if your budget allows. That way you get the warranty, vendor customer service, blah, blah, blah. For certain things like suspension and motor pieces, I personally would look at the reputation and customer orientation of the vendor first, and price secondary...sometime it's worth to pay a little more.
03-16-2003, 12:37 PM
#5
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Used springs and swaybars shouldn't be a problem.
Used shocks, if they are Bilstein or Koni with limited mileage might be fine too, but I would want a pretty good discount over new.
Just remember that installation (if you pay someone to do it) and alignment will be a pretty big chunk of the total cost, so you don't want to have to do it over again if something isn't quite right.
Chip
Used shocks, if they are Bilstein or Koni with limited mileage might be fine too, but I would want a pretty good discount over new.
Just remember that installation (if you pay someone to do it) and alignment will be a pretty big chunk of the total cost, so you don't want to have to do it over again if something isn't quite right.
Chip
03-16-2003, 12:51 PM
#6
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so if i were to completely remodel my suspension, i would need: Eibach Sport Springs, Bilstein PSS-9 Coilovers, RS Adjustable Swaybars and front strut tower brace? Is that right or am i missing something. What's the difference between a strut tower brace and adjustable swaybars? What about tie-bars?(sorry if i'm annoying you with all my newbie questions 
)
)
03-16-2003, 01:04 PM
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The PSS-9 is a self-contained springs/shock unit. No extra springs to buy.
The strut tower brace ($200-$300) goes in your trunk, and makes the front end more rigid.
The swaybars fit under the car, one front and one rear, and control the body's roll during cornering.
The 'tie-bar' can be ignored.
I put in H&R sport springs, Bilstein shocks, M030 front swaybar, and the RS rear swaybar. Cost of all new parts was around $2000. Installation and alignment will run you around $1100.
A similar setup using the PSS-9 will cost roughly $1000 more.
Your mileage may vary.
Chip
The strut tower brace ($200-$300) goes in your trunk, and makes the front end more rigid.
The swaybars fit under the car, one front and one rear, and control the body's roll during cornering.
The 'tie-bar' can be ignored.
I put in H&R sport springs, Bilstein shocks, M030 front swaybar, and the RS rear swaybar. Cost of all new parts was around $2000. Installation and alignment will run you around $1100.
A similar setup using the PSS-9 will cost roughly $1000 more.
Your mileage may vary.
Chip
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03-16-2003, 01:31 PM
#8
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong>I wish I could go through the past topics to find something that i'm looking for but there's too many and this is just a lot easier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No flame intended, just some friendly guidance:
I think you'll find the Board far more helpful if you display enough interest to do a minimal amount of homework before asking others to spend their time on your behalf. No one here works for you & the helpful advice found here is (almost) all gratuitous.
At least read the suspension stuff on p-car.com so you know the difference between a sway bar & a strut brace.
<strong>I wish I could go through the past topics to find something that i'm looking for but there's too many and this is just a lot easier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No flame intended, just some friendly guidance:
I think you'll find the Board far more helpful if you display enough interest to do a minimal amount of homework before asking others to spend their time on your behalf. No one here works for you & the helpful advice found here is (almost) all gratuitous.
At least read the suspension stuff on p-car.com so you know the difference between a sway bar & a strut brace.
03-16-2003, 03:10 PM
#10
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong>yeah i used p-car but sometimes i didn't understand some of the equipment he was mentioning.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You may want to consider buying Bruce Anderson's "Porsche 911 Performance Handbook" to help you familiarize yourself with the car's various components, including the suspension parts. While not the be-all-and-end-all of high performance for our cars, it's a good read and will help you understand what people are saying here without you coming across as too ignorant. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
<strong>yeah i used p-car but sometimes i didn't understand some of the equipment he was mentioning.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You may want to consider buying Bruce Anderson's "Porsche 911 Performance Handbook" to help you familiarize yourself with the car's various components, including the suspension parts. While not the be-all-and-end-all of high performance for our cars, it's a good read and will help you understand what people are saying here without you coming across as too ignorant. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
03-16-2003, 03:35 PM
#11
RL Technical Advisor
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong>wow thanks, that really helped me a lot, just another question...is it better to buy these parts brand new or can i go with buying it used if say the condition was "LIKE NEW, EXCELLENT CONDITION". I mean of course a lot of people are going to say that but if they really are in that condition, is it safe or am i better of buying brand new.
oh yeah, and i usually take the car out in the hills every week where there are a lot of turns, twists and whatnot. But i'm planning on getting a scca membership during the summer when i'm more free.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi:
I do recommend that these parts should be be purchased new (in the USA), if you want the Bilstein limited lifetime warranty, proper product support, technical assistance with setup & adjustment. I have always likened buying used suspension to purchasing a used muffler, you simply cannot tell what you are getting,.....
Ultimately,. you should determine what kind of realistic budget you have for making suspension upgrades. Nothing here is cheap and the labor and setup costs are not insignificant, unless you do everything yourself.
I would also recommend some reading for you about handling & suspension so you might better understand the terminology and what each component does.
These titles can usually be found at either Barnes & Noble and/or Border's Books:
1) "How to make your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn
2) "Performance Handling" by Don Alexander
3) "911 Performance Handbook" by Bruce Anderson
4) "Prepare to Win" by Carroll Smith
These will keep you busy,.......
<strong>wow thanks, that really helped me a lot, just another question...is it better to buy these parts brand new or can i go with buying it used if say the condition was "LIKE NEW, EXCELLENT CONDITION". I mean of course a lot of people are going to say that but if they really are in that condition, is it safe or am i better of buying brand new.
oh yeah, and i usually take the car out in the hills every week where there are a lot of turns, twists and whatnot. But i'm planning on getting a scca membership during the summer when i'm more free.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi:
I do recommend that these parts should be be purchased new (in the USA), if you want the Bilstein limited lifetime warranty, proper product support, technical assistance with setup & adjustment. I have always likened buying used suspension to purchasing a used muffler, you simply cannot tell what you are getting,.....
Ultimately,. you should determine what kind of realistic budget you have for making suspension upgrades. Nothing here is cheap and the labor and setup costs are not insignificant, unless you do everything yourself.
I would also recommend some reading for you about handling & suspension so you might better understand the terminology and what each component does.
These titles can usually be found at either Barnes & Noble and/or Border's Books:
1) "How to make your Car Handle" by Fred Puhn
2) "Performance Handling" by Don Alexander
3) "911 Performance Handbook" by Bruce Anderson
4) "Prepare to Win" by Carroll Smith
These will keep you busy,.......
03-16-2003, 06:04 PM
#14
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong> i didn't understand some of the equipment he was mentioning.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You do realize the engine is in the rear of a 911 don't you?
This guy has to be a troll. He has almost so little knowledge that he has to be trying to bait someone. If not, I guess I have seen it all now.
<strong> i didn't understand some of the equipment he was mentioning.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You do realize the engine is in the rear of a 911 don't you?
This guy has to be a troll. He has almost so little knowledge that he has to be trying to bait someone. If not, I guess I have seen it all now.
03-16-2003, 06:19 PM
#15
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong>I wish I could go through the past topics to find something that i'm looking for but there's too many and this is just a lot easier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No flame intended, just some friendly guidance:
I think you'll find the Board far more helpful if you display enough interest to do a minimal amount of homework before asking others to spend their time on your behalf. No one here works for you & the helpful advice found here is (almost) all gratuitous.
At least read the suspension stuff on p-car.com so you know the difference between a sway bar & a strut brace.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sage advice there Dan, much more diplomatic than I would have been. In a month or so, this same guy will ask the same questions again. The pattern repeats itself too often.
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mdsqwerty:
<strong>I wish I could go through the past topics to find something that i'm looking for but there's too many and this is just a lot easier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No flame intended, just some friendly guidance:
I think you'll find the Board far more helpful if you display enough interest to do a minimal amount of homework before asking others to spend their time on your behalf. No one here works for you & the helpful advice found here is (almost) all gratuitous.
At least read the suspension stuff on p-car.com so you know the difference between a sway bar & a strut brace.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sage advice there Dan, much more diplomatic than I would have been. In a month or so, this same guy will ask the same questions again. The pattern repeats itself too often.