laurence '97 C4S

I was very impressed with the car. Power, brakes, handling and overall feel was very good. When you consider the price of $50,000, it really has value. I hope Porsche will recognize the performance/price equation, which if they do, should benefit future Porsche ownership. Despite the value equation of the new M3, my guess is that it will suffer greater depreciation over time than a Porsche. Anyone else drive one? Curious other opinions.

Anir

Laurence,

I'm glad to hear you like the car, since my wife is on the waiting list. I've heard some folks malign the high revving nature of the engine, but this doesn't bother me (but the low-end grunt of a Ferrari 456 isn't bad either ).

The depreciation may not be bad at all. The last M3 edition held its value incredibly well. A friend purchased his M3 Sedan for $40,500 new in 1997 and sold it four years later for $28,000. I think few cars short of a Ferrari 360 can beat that in terms of percentages or raw dollar amount.

Check out what the latest issue of Autocar had to say, when they voted the E46 M3 1st in their 2001 list of the "Top 50 New Cars":

"The M3's breadth of ability isn't just unsurpassed, it's unprecedented. At one extreme, it's right up there with the Porsche 911 as a pure driving machine, at the other it's a comfortable, refined executive saloon with decent seating for four, a big boot, and a tasteful selection of bells and whistles. And it's a great car to own - cult M3s hold onto their value incredibly well."

Did you buy the one you drove today?

laurence '97 C4S

Reason I was at the dealer was to service my wife's 3 week old 330 Ci Convertible (quite a nice car in it's own right). So I've already contributed to the Quandt's (spelling?) fortune this month. However, truth be told I was sufficiently interested to ask about delivery dates.

Tone

I've been on the list for the new M3 for over a year and my # will probably come up next year. I did drive a demo though about 2 months ago and was dissapointed. A matter of fact, I sold my '97 M3 and bought a '95 993 - which I love.

Why was I dissappointed? Let me start by saying for the $ the new M3 is excellent. Also power is awesome, brakes are excellent, and handling very good - it's a big-ish car though, especially compared to a 993.
I was let down by the lack of tactile feeling especially in the steering and brakes. You're also very dampened from the feel of the road - compared to the '97 M3 or 993. If I drove a lot of miles, and had to pick one car for all of it - the new M3 would probably be it.

I drive about 8K per year on my sports car, work from home, and run about 7 track days per year. The 993 is simply more enjoyable for my needs even if it is a bit slower and smaller. I would be surprized of the new M3 took the 993 around the track though. The 993's handling, brakes, & beauty are simply great.

Mark Buka

I've driven the E46 M3, and for the $, it's a great bargain. I also had one on my tail for 300 miles returning from the Canadaian F1 GP. I had ample opportunity to test the car(and its driver) through various conditions. My conclusion: unless you're doing 155+, you won't be able to lose the M3(go ahead - ask me how I know that).

E. J. - 993 Alumni

Mark, I appreciate your comments, but I beg to differ. My stock (hoosiers and harnesses)90,000 mile '95 beat an M5 last year at VIR driven by a pro driver. It has been discussed before. I don't think a new M3 will hang with me at the track, where it matters, on the limit, for a long stretch. Hopefully I will get to prove it next month when I run with Viper Days.

For video of the battle with the M5, see my website at the link below.

There is a difference: My car came from the factory as a race car outfitted for the road and the M3 comes from the factory as a road car kind of outfitted for the track.

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: E. J. - 95 Carrera - No. Va. ]

Anir

EJ,

I don't doubt the 993's overall track superiority for a minute, particularly when outfitted with slicks and driven by someone with your skill.

However, don't forget that the M3 is lighter than the M5 by a few hundred pounds and faster to boot (though maybe not at the highest speeds). I'm confident that it will be more of a true driver's car than the M5, and a bit more competitive at the track.

I've also heard some raving comments about the SMG II as well - supposedly much better than Ferrari's own second generation F1 package on the 360's.

Tess Baker

Here is a link to a Mercedes forum on the same subject. The concensus with the newer M3 (E46) cars is that they are "test drive" cars that, in the long run, are showing up with enough issues to suggest avoiding them.

Mercedes forum on M3

Clay

I have the same point of view as Tone on this. I put myself on the M3 waiting list in march. After driving the demo about a month ago, I've changed my mind. It is a great car but it's not a 993. For me, The only advantage that the the M3 has over the 993 os the fact that the M3 would be brand new with a warranty. So I'm planning to get a crisp used 993 sometime next year.

[ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: Clay ]

Mark Buka

[QUOTE]Originally posted by E. J. - 95 Carrera - No. Va.:
[QB]

EJ: We discussed your video a while ago. If you recall, we agreed that, on track, given enough laps, you would pass the stock M5, which would cook its brakes.

I posted observations on real world driving, playing "follow the leader", so to speak. It was immediately obvious, when I initially passed the M3, just after crossing into the US, he would be following me for the duration. It's a very capable performer. It isn't a 911, but then again, it is a good piece. I have driven prepared BMW's on track and can say that if I were in one of these new E46 M3's, prepared similarly to your 911, it would be a different result than the M5.

Basic power/weight ratios(approx. weight #s):

M3 3200lbs/333bhp = 9.609

993 3100lbs/270bhp = 11.481
993 3200lbs/285bhp = 11.228

(8k redline vs. 6.5k redline is also interesting). This would indicate an edge to the M3, that is to say, not accounting for driver skill.
I'm not advocating giving up a 993 for an M3, but I feel that the M3 can be a garage mate with the p-car.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

[quote]Originally posted by Mark Bukachevsky:
<STRONG>Mark I certainly agree that a new M3 can be a great garage mate to a 993, just not the track performer. It might hang for a while, but after a while the weight will have an effect on the brakes just like the M5 does (granted not as bad), but the 993 caertainly has better brakes to begin with.

I feel that 'running' with one on the street is very different that 'racing' with one on the track. power to weight ration might be better, but how about center of gravity being signifigantly lower? Handling in the 993 will be much better with the rear engine.

All I am saying is that yes the M3 might be quick on the track, and it certainly is on the street, but I would take my car all day long. The hand built, small producer history aside, I feel (IMHO) that the 993 is better suited to the track. I do think the M3 is priced right for what you get.

Believe me, I am not trying to rehash a very old debate (ala 993 vs. 996), we will staunchly support our cars and M3 owners will probably support theirs. Although I see from this post that some people have chosen not to go through with an M3 purchase after test driving. I have never driven one, so can't comment.

Ran

Unladen weight of the new M3 is 3415 lbs with a distribution of 50.3 to 49.7 front to rear according to the BMW website. So, it is close to the wt of a 993TT and even closer to a 996TT weight. But normally aspirated Porsche cars have quite a weight and centre of gravity advantage.

The garage mate of my 993 is an E36 M3. Am waiting for BMW to work out their bugs, if any, on the E46 M3 engine so that I can trade in my E36 M3. If, however, I had the euro spec E36 M3 321 bhp, I would not trade it in. Considering the complaints I read about the M5 clutch, I may not go for the new M3 at all since my current M3 is quite trouble-free and has had no problems whatsoever compared to my briefly owned E46 328i sport.

Overall I like both M cars and P cars. Just different things to like about them.

Viken

Ran,

If you are serious about getting an E46 M3, wait for the SMGII transmission to be available in the US. Otherwise, there is nothing exciting about that car.

Ran

Viken wrote:
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;If you are serious about getting an E46 M3, wait for the SMGII transmission to be available in the US. Otherwise, there is nothing exciting about that car&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

For sure I will wait for SMG 2 especially since it is going to be a second car so I dont have to worry about others driving it!!! Though that may mean waiting atleast 6 months after its introduction to be sure the new bugs are worked out But, I am not that serious about it in the end since my current m is four door and serves a great purpose of being able to drive even when friends are over.

Viken

The SMGII is already being sold in the ROW as we speak. The bugs will be worked-out by the time it is introduced in the US.