Swiss_movement

goofballdeluxe

One cannot really flash a '96, so if you have a 1996 car, you'd need to get a '97 or '98 ECU.

Also, if it were me and I was dead set on spending at least $1K on a flash for my ECU for a few horsepower, I'd be having Steve Weiner doing it, not Fabspeed. But that's just me

Lorenfb

You use a higher octane fuel now, right? If not, you probably in some cases, e.g. high ambient temp, greater engine loads, have less HP than before. Remember, the 993 has knock sensors
which retard the timing (less torque/HP) when detonation occurs because the timing is now more advanced.

Kika

Certainly this is conventional wisdom, and traditionally what we have learned over the years.

What we or at least most of us here do not know is, if Fabspeed has developed an alternative to flashing a 96 ECU without going to a 97 ECU. The chip on the factory 96 ECU is not re programmable, it is a write once chip, the 97s used an EPROM, that can be erased, and reprogrammed. It is just electronics, and Fabspeed is a pretty good sized operation, and may have invested in a mechanism/method, that we are unaware of. I certainly do not know what exactly they are doing, so I cannot say it is bad or poor.

Piggy back chips have been tried in the past for 96 ECU, and have had reliability issues due to the soldering involved. If Fabspeed has developed a different method, I suspect it involves a complete replacement of the factory chip itself, or some type of alteration of the output/control signals through a post processor, or even replacement of the entire motherboard. At some point, the ECU is just inputs and outputs, if they have figure out what all of them are, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that they have devised a replacement, that they can alter the fuel maps.

Incidentally, I did have Steve Weiner flash a 97 ECU for my car. As far as i know, there is limited (I know of no one) experience with the Fabspeed flash, which doesn't mean it is bad, just not documented here on the Rennlist 993 Board.

If you decide to have Fabspeed flash your 96, I (and many others) would be interested in hearing your experience, at $1000, it is a much less expensive option than procuring a 97 and flashing it. I am sure they have a warranty with it as well.

kary993

I personally have never seen a super charger kit done right that can withstand racing. I obviously have never seen everything, but over 20 years of driving a 993 and racing a 993 all those super charged cars failed to finish from my experience. Porsche builds cars that performance and endure. Trying to bolt on a super charger on a 993 is going to be pain, nothing like what you get from the Porsche factory no matter how good the tuner is. I watched many people take 993 turbos and move from stage 1 to stage 3 605 HP monsters. Cars didn't last long for many reasons even beyond the engine. The stress on the rest of the car, a street car, were not meant for that much horsepower. Porsche factory GT2 993's were built differently all over the car. Reinforced in many areas as are 993 cup cars. Anyway, please enjoy your 993's the way they are, make them handle, make them look good, have fun driving them (yes I said this before), you will be much happier. If you really want more horsepower then buy a different Porsche that has that much horsepower!

Kika

It never ceases to amaze me how many people believe/think that MORE HP/torque equals MORE fun/driving enjoyment. At some point the returns are diminishing, and there are many other components to the "driving experience"

Kika

FWIW, Fabspeed's President's Day Sale (10% off Porsche Products ends tomorrow) and Free Gift with purchase over $500. I don't know if this applies to flashing ECU's or not. but.....perhaps an opportunity for you.

Swiss_movement

Kika

My bad, was tracking GBall's comment. That is traditionally how ECU threads go, as there are many more 96's on the road than 98s. My recollection on 98 ECU's is a little more hazy, but I think they ARE re-programmable. I know 98 ECU's cannot be used in 96's as there is something that was added, that will cause a CEL, I forget what the details of it are, Steve Weiner had that info.

Fabspeed's website is noticeably absent of any technical data, or reviews. https://www.fabspeed.com/porsche-993-carrera-ecu-tune/

I would think they would have at least some test data they could show.

kary993

That's because there are zero too little performance increases that are noticeable. While I like Fabspeed exhausts, there too are little increases. More in weight reduction and some better flow through exhaust, but nothing more than 5-7 horsepower. Again, take these mods to the track and you find little to no performance increases.

nine9six

Apparently we shop at different stores! ; )

Used SC, $3500-$4000. If a shop is charging $6k for installation; ease out of there and pull up the pants.

There is a GIAC flash shop in the PNW, who would probably buy every correctly functioning 97 ECM you can provide.

Just because you got quoted $2,000 from a dismantler a year ago for a 97 ECM, does not make the price you're mentioning valid today.

You can get a newly rebuilt 97 ECM from Porsche for $4,000, but you will need to provide a core in trade...but I dont know if that price is still accurate.

I owned and sold a 97 ECM for the very same reasons we are discussing here with regards to the bang for the buck acquisition price of the ECM and flash...

Kika

1. I am guessing GBall is quoting a NEW S/C kit, which I believe is closer to $8K, + installation and tuning. $10K + is not inaccurate, however if you intend on buying used, and DIYing, I am sure it can be done for much less money.
2. There are other reasons people have reflashed ECUs, including 1. removal of immobilizer, 2. stalling issues and 3. dealing with "other" concerns. Fuel map/performance gain is NOT always the primary objective.

goofballdeluxe

^^^^^ Winner winner chicken dinner.

My final dickish thoughts on the subject: if you're buying a N/A 993 for it's power, especially one with a slushbox, you're climbing a steep hill with no rope.

Personally I have no interest in spending $1K or more for 7 horses. But to each his own

Tlaloc75

Lorenfb

Thanks for the response. At least you're aware of potential issues. FVD has had some problems with 996 DME ECM re-flashes where the DME ECM became intermittent.
Anytime chips are removed for re-flashing, there's always a potential for a reliability problem.