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Why does this new CA law pose a greater danger to our modified exhausts than these existing laws? What's new with this law (obviously, I'm not a lawyer) that would impact us CA residents more than WA, NC, KY, OK, or other states with the same law?
Because CA is making it a non-correctable offense, and it's a $1k fine, up to the officer's discretion. Other states allow you to correct it.
Last edited by jskylarwilson; 01-15-2019 at 03:47 PM.
I've lived my whole life, 66 years, in California. Seen lots of weird things regarding vehicle law enforcement. There will certainly be a few CHP or local cops who feel it is their responsibility to enforce this obscure noise law as it applies to our cars, and to other vehicles. I can not remember the last time I heard of a Porsche being cited for being too loud. Lots more motorcycles, Subees, muscle cars, etc that attract more attention for their noise levels. I do not see this as a big deal. Kinda like the window tinting, bicycle helmets for minors, front license plates (yes, I did get a fix-it ticket for no front license plate), etc.
I have Fister I's, and am not concerned about this noise level issue.
I've lived my whole life, 66 years, in California. Seen lots of weird things regarding vehicle law enforcement. There will certainly be a few CHP or local cops who feel it is their responsibility to enforce this obscure noise law as it applies to our cars, and to other vehicles. I can not remember the last time I heard of a Porsche being cited for being too loud. Lots more motorcycles, Subees, muscle cars, etc that attract more attention for their noise levels. I do not see this as a big deal. Kinda like the window tinting, bicycle helmets for minors, front license plates (yes, I did get a fix-it ticket for no front license plate), etc.
I have Fister I's, and am not concerned about this noise level issue.
The issue is not that there’s a law regarding excessive exhaust noise levels. It’s about turning an equipment violation into a punitive violation. It’s sole purpose is tax, nothing else. That’s the ONLY sensible take, on why they made it punitive.
I've lived my whole life, 66 years, in California. Seen lots of weird things regarding vehicle law enforcement. There will certainly be a few CHP or local cops who feel it is their responsibility to enforce this obscure noise law as it applies to our cars, and to other vehicles. I can not remember the last time I heard of a Porsche being cited for being too loud. Lots more motorcycles, Subees, muscle cars, etc that attract more attention for their noise levels. I do not see this as a big deal. Kinda like the window tinting, bicycle helmets for minors, front license plates (yes, I did get a fix-it ticket for no front license plate), etc.
I have Fister I's, and am not concerned about this noise level issue.
Arbitrary and capricious regulation is designed to turn every citizen into an inadvertent scofflaw making a good rousting by the state a completely discretionary process.
Nothing new here,
Andy
I can envision some nasty neighbors taking revenge because of being awakened too early in the morning or late at night. Still willing to "adopt" your Fisters and give them a good home.
Not sure if any of you listen to The Smoking Tire podcast, but they had a guy on earlier this week to discuss this new law in detail. And it sounds like it could potentially be a much bigger issue than many think. They were talking about a guy with an almost brand new, unmodified GT3 that was pulled over from a stop sign and cited for loud exhaust. Apparently, this law gives cops the ability to pull you over for modified OR loud exhaust (> 95db) and the citation is given on the spot (not a fix-it ticket) and the determination of “loud” is completely subjective - so it’s not based on a decibel meter test.
Needless to say, I’m sure glad I don’t live in CA and have to deal with this nonsense. Good luck to those of you who do.
Not sure if any of you listen to The Smoking Tire podcast, but they had a guy on earlier this week to discuss this new law in detail. And it sounds like it could potentially be a much bigger issue than many think. They were talking about a guy with an almost brand new, unmodified GT3 that was pulled over from a stop sign and cited for loud exhaust. Apparently, this law gives cops the ability to pull you over for modified OR loud exhaust (> 95db) and the citation is given on the spot (not a fix-it ticket) and the determination of “loud” is completely subjective - so it’s not based on a decibel meter test.
Needless to say, I’m sure glad I don’t live in CA and have to deal with this nonsense. Good luck to those of you who do.
Not having an empirical way to measure loudness is insanity and complete and total horsesh*t.
Not having an empirical way to measure loudness is insanity and complete and total horsesh*t.
Agreed. And you’re required to park the vehicle and not allowed to drive it until it’s “fixed”. But, if you want to fight the citation, the car has to be taken to a “ref” station for testing... and the owner is responsible for the cost of performing the testing ($100-$200) AND presumably you’re expected to tow the vehicle to the testing site since it’s not to be driven. Complete horsesh*t.
Sounds like CA lawmakers have found another way to completely screw residents and milk more money from them...
So I have Fister3s on my 993 and am worried that this would be applied here. Is this a reason to go back to stock? What about for other exhausts?
Vehicle Code § 27150 has not been amended, so I'm not sure why you're quoting it. The below section, which is also applicable, has not been amended since 2002.
Originally Posted by Vehicle Code 27151
.
(a) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an exhaust system so modified.
(b) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor vehicles with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to, nonoriginal exhaust equipment.
The law is the same as it was before, it's just a non-correctable violation. Despite all the screaming, the below map (quoted at the bottom of this post) reveals that the California law is one of the better exhaust laws across the US. Unlike other states with vague laws that are subjective, California has an objective standard. The citing officer has to prove, in court, that your exhaust failed to comply with SAE J1169. This is nearly impossible. Not only does it require a field dB meter, but it requires a very specific procedure, including knowing what constitutes "3/4 of the engine speed at rated horsepower" for the specific vehicle. It's a near impossibility for a police officer in the field to properly administer this test which means there's no way it'll ever be admissible. So, if one chose to fight this, the matter wouldn't even get to the ref stage. Don't forget, this law was written with the input and support of SEMA.
Procedure
6.1 The engine of the vehicle under test shall be at normal operating temperature during the test.
6.2 The engine hood or compartment cover shall be closed.
6.3 The vehicle air conditioner, if so equipped, shall be turned off.
6.4 With the vehicle transmission in the neutral or park position (and the parking brake applied for safety), the engine speed shall be slowly increased from idle to 3/4 of the engine speed at rated horsepower as specified by the manufacturer, held constant at this speed for a sufficient time to obtain a sound level meter reading, and then slowly decreased to idle speed.
6.5 Vehicles equipped with a multi-mode exhaust system and a manual exhaust mode control switch shall be tested according to 6.4 for each position of the mode switch.
7. Measurements
7.1 Measurements shall be made at each exhaust gas outlet, using the microphone location(s) described in Section 4.
7.2 The sound level meter shall be observed during the constant engine speed operation of the vehicle, as described in 6.4. The recorded reading shall be the highest sound level observed.
7.3 The tests shall be repeated at each exhaust gas outlet until two measurements are obtained which are within 2 dB of each other. The reported sound level for a given outlet shall be the arithmetic average of the two highest measurements which are within 2 dB of each other. For vehicles equipped with multiple exhaust gas outlets, the sound level reported shall be for the outlet having the highest average sound level.
7.3.1 For vehicles equipped with a multi-mode exhaust system and tested according to 6.5, the sound level reported shall be for the outlet and mode yielding the highest sound level.
Originally Posted by mpruden
This map is a bit old (2013), but this new law seems hardly unique to California. Many states with far different reputations for automobile regulations have similar laws. https://www.semasan.com/resources/ex...ise-laws-state
Even as someone who loves motorcycles the funny thing is that the Harley's that cruise around my town are much louder than any cars I hear. I live in a beach community so it's pretty common for groups of Harley's to cruise around and they are loud. Some of them go down my street and set off car alarms regularly. so why do they seem to be treated differently if the goal is noise abatement?
01-09-2019, 01:26 AM
