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Project Limoncella - Restoring 993 into a CUP/RSR 1:1 tribute

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Project Limoncella - Restoring 993 into a CUP/RSR 1:1 tribute

Old 12-27-2018, 06:45 PM
  #46  
nothingbutgt3
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Good luck my friend. It's a hard project but a wonderful one. Sounds like you know what you're getting yourself into.
The innards of the gearbox.
The gearbox is already at a Porsche Local dealer to be checked: end of January they’ll tell me what is the necessary work to do and the cost.
I am going to put this gearbox into the other 993, because of the shorter gear ratios.
The end of the project is so distant to me, that in the meanwhile I take advantage to temporarily modify the aerodynamics and the suspensions of the other one into full RS specs, with full RS Clubsport aero.
Ive read here it doesn’t make all that difference, and probably the car looks worse, maybe just a little bit improvement, together with the lowering. Will see.

May I call you Winston? Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

Great attitude. Penso che tu non sei sposato?
exactly! If I don’t do it now, when then?!

In other words I have made my car less valuable by spending a fortune
this sounds so much English!

So I say good luck keep at it and the next time I am in Firenze I will come to see you. We stay at Fiesole
a very good friend of mine lives there, you threat you well man!
When you are around, you must tell me, do you think we’ll be able to talk about something else than 993?
ok, also 964 is nice, same engine block...


Paulo,
Your 993 has a similar car (Bugatti) that was underwater in a lake in Switzerland for many years, now resting in a museum in California...





I’ve heard about it, but never saw a picture: WoW, it looks beautiful! Great idea!
And the California desert is such a perfect place for preserving a mummy (just kidding)
where in California, precisely?
Need an excuse to come visiting again the amazing places you have there...and Mexican and Japanese food...wow, still dream of it...and eggs Benedict...in the middle of the morning...so good!






Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 12-27-2018 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:58 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by nothingbutgt3 View Post


If I would understand what you wrote, my English language and culture would be probably like if I were born there.

I think he is referring to our wonderful president
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:06 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
It's a cool car in a cool color, but OP, I gotta be real with you. You are going to have to literally replace every single part on this car. Maybe not the engine case and cam housings and a few other aluminum parts. But everything else, from the wiring harness to the gauges to the complete interior to the alternator and distributor, will all need to be replaced. The innards of the gearbox. The CV joints. The window motors. The wiper motor. The sunroof motor. The power steering pump. The steering rack. The ECU, the CCU, the ABS brain, the ABS pump. Every nut and bolt and washer is rusted. You will have to track down and replace every little thing. Maybe you have the money and the time, but it's going to cost you the price of three or four 993's and several years to put this one particular 993 back on the road.
i love this story, but I agree with Churchill...

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Old 12-27-2018, 09:04 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by nothingbutgt3 View Post
It will definitely be expensive...
Then if it'll take 4/5/6/7 years, I DON'T CARE.
People very often spend resourses for investment, I am making an investment as well, putting effort doing what i like in my free time, when I can.

Instead of losing my time watching political forum on the TV, or watching Sport, or silly programs (just my personal opinion), thanks God now I know what to do when i am home and dont really know what to do: how do you name this, hobby maybe?
There are people spending thousand dollar going tuna fishing, or skiing, or whatever.
This is something I can do at home, very practical, and I must say, also refreshing: the time I spend there doesn't encrease my tiredness at the end of the day, or during the weekend, but it relaxes me.
It is like having meditation...
And I think it is a great opportunity to know this amazing creature in every single part, every single bolt.
People throw away money in things without knowing why, just because the society is asking to do it, I am doing something because I decided it.
Name me anarchic if you like it: at least in our free time, can't we decide what to do?


And another thing, very remarkable, so very much appreciated, I met person sharing the same passion inside the Porsche World...how much would you value the enrichment as a side effect of such a project?
I think you cannot give a value to human relations, it is priceless..
This is just awesome. So glad you are here on the 993 Forum. And your English is beyond excellent, itĺs poetic.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:22 PM
  #50  
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I think Paolo has the very right attitude for this. Slow and deliberate, no hurry, t's more of a wide-ranging social hobby. I mean, most of us are here because of people at least initially. This is such a throwback to the old Rennlist. Warms my heart. And I'm not being sarcastic, it seriously does. If I'm in Tuscany any time soon, I'm definitely begging to see the project in person and buying Paolo a pint.

On a side note, Paolo if you need any parts from the States, especially something used and possibly less expensive that it is in Europe, don't hesitate to contact me, I'll be more than happy to chase it down and ship as needed.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:51 PM
  #51  
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Paolo,
The next Rennsport Reunion, a world-renowned Porsche event in the U.S., recently held at Mazda Laguna Seca Race Track in California, probably will next occur in September, 2021. Might be your goal to finish? Consider shipping it over, showing the car, telling its story, then doing another drive here. Some of us can help you with logistics.
Take lots of pictures as you restore.
Have you made contact with the Porsche factory and Porsche Classic in Zuffenhausen? Perhaps they would be of assistance, or offer advice in your amazing project?
Fred
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:19 AM
  #52  
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nothingbutgt3,

The Bugatti is in the fabulous Mullin Museum in Oxnard, CA, open only a few days a year, but otherwise you can buy a ticket for a "semi-private" tour, still not too expensive. Link here: http://www.mullinautomotivemuseum.com/

Another great one not far away is the Nethercutt Collection: https://www.nethercuttcollection.org/

Sorry for the side trip...
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:39 AM
  #53  
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buy a parts car bust *** for a year or so and get it done !
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:43 AM
  #54  
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The next Rennsport Reunion, a world-renowned Porsche event in the U.S., recently held at Mazda Laguna Seca Race Track in California, probably will next occur in September, 2021. Might be your goal to finish? Consider shipping it over, showing the car, telling its story, then doing another drive here. Some of us can help you with logistics.
Probably for that moment I could finish the restoring process, which means CUP chassis, standard engine, standard gearbox, standard wheel hub, standard glasses, standard doors, standard brakes

Because the wheel hub must be the center lock one, the engine a complete RSR spec, gearbox I’d like to upgrade to a 997 CUP sequential, light glasses, vtr doors, CUP brakes, cup steering.

Have you made contact with the Porsche factory and Porsche Classic in Zuffenhausen? Perhaps they would be of assistance, or offer advice in your amazing project?
l definitely will need help: the first and most important part is to find out the original specifications of a CUP chassis, with all the procedures of reinforcements, welding, shape and way of mounting the Matter Cage.
I know it is not anymore produced, but I met a person in Germany who told me there is someone able to reproduce it 1:1 same material, same diameter, same thickness, same folds.
To find an original Matter, would be the best, but for what price? And in what a 1:1 reproduction would be “less”?

I must get all the elements before starting the body work, until then, I will not start with it.
And this research could take several months or maybe just few weeks: let’s see.

buy a parts car bust *** for a year or so and get it done !
I wish I could understand this sentence, what it means, it would mean I am very good in your language.



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Old 12-28-2018, 11:48 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
It's a cool car in a cool color, but OP, I gotta be real with you. You are going to have to literally replace every single part on this car. Maybe not the engine case and cam housings and a few other aluminum parts. But everything else, from the wiring harness to the gauges to the complete interior to the alternator and distributor, will all need to be replaced. The innards of the gearbox. The CV joints. The window motors. The wiper motor. The sunroof motor. The power steering pump. The steering rack. The ECU, the CCU, the ABS brain, the ABS pump. Every nut and bolt and washer is rusted. You will have to track down and replace every little thing. Maybe you have the money and the time, but it's going to cost you the price of three or four 993's and several years to put this one particular 993 back on the road.
Great post

Originally Posted by nothingbutgt3 View Post
It will definitely be expensive, but, there is a but, the time factor is very important.
I have no rush, I have already a wonderful 993 in my garage, this one of course will need a new ECU, a new ABS brain, because it's going to be a CUP.
Not more or less a CUP, but a true CUP .
No power windows at all, non A/C, no heating, no Venter locking, nothing.
I planned to make it step by step: now it is time for the chassis and body work, but I am already having a look around and taking infos about everything else is needed.
Then if it'll take 4/5/6/7 years, I DON'T CARE.
People very often spend resourses for investment, I am making an investment as well, putting effort doing what i like in my free time, when I can.

Instead of losing my time watching political forum on the TV, or watching Sport, or silly programs (just my personal opinion), thanks God now I know what to do when i am home and dont really know what to do: how do you name this, hobby maybe?
There are people spending thousand dollar going tuna fishing, or skiing, or whatever.
This is something I can do at home, very practical, and I must say, also refreshing: the time I spend there doesn't encrease my tiredness at the end of the day, or during the weekend, but it relaxes me.
It is like having meditation...
And I think it is a great opportunity to know this amazing creature in every single part, every single bolt.
People throw away money in things without knowing why, just because the society is asking to do it, I am doing something because I decided it.
Name me anarchic if you like it: at least in our free time, can't we decide what to do?

But I think you are right, it is not a think one can do making comrpomises: it is a Porsche, no compromise at all.
I wanted a track car, now I can build it.

Does it scares me a bit?
Yes
Am I going to renounce? No.
It is something electrifying, to me...everyone is different. I respect others point of view.
If one would have asked me whatbi could think about such a project started by someone else, I would probably have thought the same.
But now, not anymore, at all

Probably is like having children, you can really understand it when you got one.
Because probably the mind changes it's perspective...

And another thing, very remarkable, so very much appreciated, I met person sharing the same passion inside the Porsche World...how much would you value the enrichment as a side effect of such a project?
I think you cannot give a value to human relations, it is priceless.
OK, maybe I am in a loop and I don't see the rest: so, let's loop.
Great response. And congrats to Paolo on figuring out what he enjoys and doing it.

Originally Posted by sub-zero View Post
buy a parts car bust *** for a year or so and get it done !
Originally Posted by nothingbutgt3 View Post
I wish I could understand this sentence, what it means, it would mean I am very good in your language
Sub Zero is suggesting you buy a third 993 as parts car, one that is also damaged and undrivable but may have many usable parts in good condition. Bust *** means to work hard.

Are you concerned the original factory welds may be compromised? How do you assess those? Even if seams look good how do you know they don't have corrosion within? I am looking forward to your progress. Good luck!
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:51 PM
  #56  
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Are you concerned the original factory welds may be compromised? How do you assess those? Even if seams look good how do you know they don't have corrosion within?
Wow, JB 911, are you able to read my mind?
Exactly today, lounch pause, I spent 45 minutes, cleaning a bit the inside of the car, and I made the same thought: the car has been carefully examinated by 2 tinsmith (is this the right word?!), and they both considered the car totally free of rust.

I was considering to blast the car with water from a specialist before starting the body work, in order to clear the surfaces in every little angle of the car, but one of them told me that this way I could loose the galvanizing layer: my personal opinion, so far, is to remove all the grout from the joints and sheet couplings, and sandblast the surfaces carefully, but without exaggerating.

If I had the structure to hang the car and rotate it, I would do it myself. So maybe first, I have to build this structure to work freely on the car.

I saw, I believe here on Rennlist, that someone had used the front and rear bumpers to attach two steel bars hinged on two fulcrums, so that he could turn the car like a boar on the rotisserie. This is what I need, I think.

About the weldings, I definitely need the construction details of the CUP car.

Sub Zero is suggesting you buy a third 993 as parts car, one that is also damaged and undrivable but may have many usable parts in good condition. Bust *** means to work hard.
Thank you for explaining: this consideration opens the field to what I wanted to share with you, ie my two trips to Germany last November.

The opinions of the experts I have called to evaluate the conditions of the car agree on the whole line, ie in order to do the job the following parts are needed:
- Bonnet
- the two front fenders
- the two rear sides
- the two sills
- the right door
- the windscreen, to be used also as a reference, in the roof rectification phase
- the right rear window
- the front and rear bumpers

not a short list, I'd say.
But having the list of the needed parts to do the job was very important to me, because it allowed me to know what I had to find.

I tried between the used parts, I mean parts that were saved from 993 accidents, or leftover stock parts, but to be honest, I did'nt have all that confidence to find anything really effective.
Basically I looked for them in Italy, England and Germany and I must say that in the last one I was surprised how much interest and activity is present in the Porsche used parts: I thought, perhaps because germans use these cars more often han elsewhere, perhaps because the road more frequently is wet, or maybe because I have noticed that for them quite often a very small defect becomes unacceptable and therefore they change everything, leaving practically perfect spare parts in the hands of the mechanics and coachbuilders for free.

I must say, whatever is the reason, I must thank the people I met for the passion, the honesty and the pride that they put in what they do: Porsche is appreciated all over the world and moves the passion of creatures maybe even outside the planet (who knows, maybe they are observing us somewhere), but its history is born in Germany and It is clearly very easy to understand that they are, rightly so, very proud of it.

A small but significant parenthesis I have to do: how did I chose where to go, who to trust?
After a careful selection made through e-mails and telephone conversations in german, the incredible part of the story is that, the parts I went to Germany to carefully explore before buying, were always exactly the way they have been described from the seller.
Let me tell you this: it is not a small thing, and it is not so frequent. Such a clear and consistent behavior.

In any case, I managed to find and take home all the necessary parts in Tuscany, in one trip, plus yellow front arrows, yellow rear lights, oil tank and oil lines (delivery and return), in addition to the side supports of the rear bumper.
Also it was part of the purchase agreement that I had to take other parts, namely the spark plugs wires of the 993 Turbo (which frankly I dont really need at all) and other parts that I do not remember now.

But there is a part of the story that I have not told you yet: both the rear sides have not been cut by damaged cars, and they are not even spare parts, no ... when I saw them, when I see them, I have to confess that a little I get emotional.

They are the sides, all in a single piece, ie the side and the door sills already joined, stock surplus from the Porsche 993 of the '98 assembly line.

Someone here may perhaps confirm or deny this story, told me by the seller: practically these parts are like making a jump in the past, not produced with the stamps from the company that has bought the molds back then, so they are not produced recently from , let’s say, “someone else”, but they are really genuine porsche parts, produced by Porsche for its own assembly line.
They are parts in bare metal and on them are written words in German, with a marker, each time the quality control found small defects not even visible to the naked eye (at least to mine), to warn those who would have mounted them to be careful, in order to correct the defects during assembly.


therefore, in fact, the sheet metal that will be installed, with the exception of the bonnet, are not reproduced parts, but original parts produced by Porsche

Personally, I think I will have difficulty accepting to see them fit ... more than parts to replace the sides of a car, they are more pieces of art to be displayed in a garage, or in a museum. OK, maybe too much, but maybe not really.
They are so beautiful ...


two pieces of history, perfectly coupled


As I came back from my long long weekend and 4500 kms in 4 days, so out of curiosity, I looked over the internet, and what did I see ?!
Someone had advertised the sale of the original rear wing of the RS-Clubsport aerokit the day before ...

Now, one clear thing I had in my mind from the very beginning: I wanted and I want to make a track car, a 1:1 faithful reproduction of the 993 CUP, and the CUPs had that kit.
1 + 1 should make 2 not always, but usually, maybe...

Damn, but I had returned not even from a week ... he could have put it on sale before!

I got in touch with the seller, an authentic car enthusiast and driver, who I later discovered was also a very serious and crystal clear person...of such people it seems to have thrown away the molds.

On the "word" we agreed that I would go there, again to Germany and get the wing the following weekend (ie two weeks after having already been in Germany!) And he accepted, but above all, he kept his word, not selling to others the wing.

This, I confess, is the thing that move me into something, because I think: hey, then maybe there is still hope, it's not all black and negative as they describe it.

Thanks Joachim, you will not read me, you probably will never read it, but I thank you all the same.








Since I do not think things happen by chance, "accidentally" the color of this beautiful sculptured rear spoiler is exactly the one of the other 993 I have in the garage ... while waiting Limoncella to be finished, I already know where it will find place ... otherwise someone here could become jealous

Do you understand that I also enjoyed it so much?

P.S. My sentences are very long for at least two reasons:
1) I am kind of a little "precisino" kind of person, I like to describe things in the best way I can
2) to say something in English I have to use more words.

I hope to improve on the way.

Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 12-29-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:50 PM
  #57  
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Ciao - Wow, the rear quarter panels look great! Those are a great find. Congratulations.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:48 PM
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You're right about the rear panels being art. Id like to have those on my wall.

Love what you are doing. It's way over my abilities. Good luck.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:11 PM
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Nient'affatto. Tu sai parlare inglese bene. You will need a spit (rotissiere) my friend has done the same on an Ausitn Healey 3000. Unfortunately Porsche parts are more expensive. We have Ninemeister in the UK who have done amazing jobs on 911's. You can do anything if you have the time and the money.
9m did a complete restoration of a 993 to RS spec (on Rennlist) worth a look.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:29 AM
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Congrats on an exciting project.

You should send your mufflers to Darin at FD Motorsports in California for "restoration" to stage 3. I bet Darin will also offer you a free smokie and beer if you make it to rennsport in 2021.
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