Tire data point - The RED or the BLUE Pill?
09-27-2018, 11:24 AM
#61
Instructor
One more in the camp of "I would never even consider these tires." Good tires are just as, if not more important than good suspension. Would you put off brand dampers on your car to save a few bucks?
Even though I am not tracking the car, having good tires is still important to me. Ultimate lateral/longitudinal grip is only a small part of what makes a good tire.
One example, I have noticed a huge difference in steer feel between the various tires I've had on my 993, none of which were cheap tires. That is something that can be felt (by most people) during every day driving. Bad tires can ruin even the sub-limit the driving experience of a car. Noise, ride quality, even wear are all important to me as well, all items that are strong points of tires like Michelin, Bridgestone and Continental.
Also, as many others have said, the cost to construct a tire is only a small part of what you are paying for. I'm willing to bet that Michelin pays 10x what "Achilles" pays per year in R&D costs. Money well spent IMO.
For an extra $300-400 over what you spent, you could have had a quality set of tires. Maybe you can't tell the difference, but I know I can.
Even though I am not tracking the car, having good tires is still important to me. Ultimate lateral/longitudinal grip is only a small part of what makes a good tire.
One example, I have noticed a huge difference in steer feel between the various tires I've had on my 993, none of which were cheap tires. That is something that can be felt (by most people) during every day driving. Bad tires can ruin even the sub-limit the driving experience of a car. Noise, ride quality, even wear are all important to me as well, all items that are strong points of tires like Michelin, Bridgestone and Continental.
Also, as many others have said, the cost to construct a tire is only a small part of what you are paying for. I'm willing to bet that Michelin pays 10x what "Achilles" pays per year in R&D costs. Money well spent IMO.
For an extra $300-400 over what you spent, you could have had a quality set of tires. Maybe you can't tell the difference, but I know I can.
09-27-2018, 11:34 AM
#62
Instructor
Do you know what is different about N spec tires other than that Porsche does some additional testing on them?
In 993 18" sizes, the only N spec (N3) tires that I can find are Michelin PS2 or Bridgestone S-02, both of which are very old technology. I chose to go with the PSS (PS4S was not available at the time) to have modern technology.
In 993 18" sizes, the only N spec (N3) tires that I can find are Michelin PS2 or Bridgestone S-02, both of which are very old technology. I chose to go with the PSS (PS4S was not available at the time) to have modern technology.
09-27-2018, 12:01 PM
#63
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Cool thread...made me google the tire and I found this.
https://motoiq.com/tested-achilles-gs-328-race-tire/
https://motoiq.com/tested-achilles-gs-328-race-tire/
He doesn't understand the non-DOT race tire sizing. He thinks that race drivers care about compound depth (and not the number of heat cycles or durometer reading, if anything).. And, of course, stickers. What's a race car or a race tire without stickers? Quite honestly, I'm a bit surprised. If this person comes from R-comp DOT tires, many of the issues are mirrored by those. Than again, what do I know, I'm not a track person and my own slick experience is very limited and not on my own car (not allowed in my class)
09-27-2018, 12:03 PM
#64
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Do you know what is different about N spec tires other than that Porsche does some additional testing on them?
In 993 18" sizes, the only N spec (N3) tires that I can find are Michelin PS2 or Bridgestone S-02, both of which are very old technology. I chose to go with the PSS (PS4S was not available at the time) to have modern technology.
In 993 18" sizes, the only N spec (N3) tires that I can find are Michelin PS2 or Bridgestone S-02, both of which are very old technology. I chose to go with the PSS (PS4S was not available at the time) to have modern technology.
09-27-2018, 12:06 PM
#65
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Same here. Many years of experience track driving, and also have a 991S. The new 911's especially are so capable the tire debate for street driving is silly. You can push the limits of a 993 on the street. On a 991 you don't get close. The choice of tire is basically irrelevant.
09-27-2018, 02:28 PM
#68
Drifting
nobody does emergency braking even in emergency...in fact one of the biggest development on the track is learning to brake hard. Most people don’t.
This talk about grippy tires being safer is complete nonsense. Go slam on the brakes in Boston area and see what happens to your car’a rear.
Does everybody here run TPMS on their 993? Cuz if you dont and drive enougn you will have a tire blow out.
09-27-2018, 02:41 PM
#69
Instructor
BTW, if you slap better tires on a Prius, it'll handle/brake better than a Prius with crappy tires. That's the argument here.
09-27-2018, 02:55 PM
#70
Race Director
but why? None of us are driving hard enough on the street for this to matter.
09-27-2018, 03:29 PM
#71
Drifting
And no, the point was that only tires matter for grip and we can ignore suspension, stability control, traction control, torque vecotring, ABS, weight distribution, braking system, driver’s inputs etc.
I agree that prius will handle better on re71 but that’s exactly the point that nobody would care. Same reason I wont put Cup 2s on 993...great tire but would be a total waste.
09-27-2018, 04:25 PM
#72
Addict
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for real dude? so if you slap RE71 on a prius it will handle and stop better than 991 on all seasons?
nobody does emergency braking even in emergency...in fact one of the biggest development on the track is learning to brake hard. Most people don’t.
This talk about grippy tires being safer is complete nonsense. Go slam on the brakes in Boston area and see what happens to your car’a rear.
Does everybody here run TPMS on their 993? Cuz if you dont and drive enougn you will have a tire blow out.
09-27-2018, 04:27 PM
#73
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Please refrain from confusing this :issue" with actual logic. It is both unfair and dangerous.
09-27-2018, 04:33 PM
#74
Drifting
would not expect any more of you than arrogant statements and you reciting the same stuff over and over.
09-27-2018, 04:34 PM
#75
Addict
Rennlist Member
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BTW, a data point. I got into autocross, initially, back in 1992 because I've spun my mid-engined car several times on the street. I was not driving hard. I was just lifting in mid-turn. Because of no clue. One doesn't need to drive hard to do stupid things that would require grip to try to stay alive. I am very comfortable looking at the mirror and pointing at myself as example #1. Obviously, everyone else is a better driver, with physics-defying AWD traction controlled cars with multiple airbags and crumple zones, which is fine with me. Comforting, even. If I could only avoid all these better drivers on great Achilles tires on bad public roads somehow...