Tire data point - The RED or the BLUE Pill?
09-25-2018, 12:31 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Not intending to get into a tire debate. Just sharing my experience.
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
09-25-2018, 01:19 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
I kind of agree- but for me safety is paramount. I want the best rubber money can buy so that in an emergency situation I can brake in the shortest distance or make an emergency maneuver in the safest way. Mine is a DD so my views may be different from the guys/gals that weekend drive or predominantly track .
09-25-2018, 03:27 PM
#34
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not intending to get into a tire debate. Just sharing my experience.
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
PS. I've been pushing the car in anger away from the street for 20 seasons now. Including my own on Hoosiers and the assorted student cars on assorted tires. I've made my choices and vote with my $$.
09-25-2018, 03:52 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
The tires on my two street cars are Dunlop ZI Star Spec and Bridgestone RE-71R. I do believe that they are well justify and I like all the grip I can get, even though I drive like grandma on the street. Because, besides the normally dumb stuff there's also emergency braking, for example. And I like having half a chance in hell to save the car and its occupants at the (literal) expense of the tires.
PS. I've been pushing the car in anger away from the street for 20 seasons now. Including my own on Hoosiers and the assorted student cars on assorted tires. I've made my choices and vote with my $$.
PS. I've been pushing the car in anger away from the street for 20 seasons now. Including my own on Hoosiers and the assorted student cars on assorted tires. I've made my choices and vote with my $$.
Totally get it, Nile. I trust your knowledge on tires, especially given your auto-x experience.
I guess I'd encourage folks to be honest with themselves about their usage model for tires on their 993. Make sure they are safe, appropriate for the weather conditions, blah, blah, blah. Don't just go out there and get some crazy high performance tire with capability approaching a racing slick by default.
Oh, and remember to always get N rated tires. ;-) .
09-25-2018, 04:17 PM
#36
Race Director
Not intending to get into a tire debate. Just sharing my experience.
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
For anyone that's used to pushing a tire to the limit, the real limit - not the "spirited driving / canyon carving" limit, you'll know that cheap tires (Sumi HTRZIII, Bridgestone S04, etc) have a tremendous amount of grip. They may squeal like crazy, but they still have a lot of grip that can be managed. Heck, the OE Bridgestone RE97 all seasons on my GTI can sustain enough Gs in corning and braking to scare the crap out of most anyone used to street driving. I should know, I just did this a few weeks ago and unintentionally frightened my passenger at a track day in my bone-stock DD.
Anyway, just a long way of saying that it's eye opening what modern tires can do. I think a lot of us that just drive our cars on the street are probably getting ahead of ourselves if we think we are getting value of of these grippy tires even during "spirited" street drives (whatever that means). I've certainly been guilty of it. Now that I've spent more time pushing all kinds of cars with all kinds of tires to the real limits, I know better. Buy a reputable tire, inflate it properly, replace it when it's old or worn, and drive it!
Now, if you're going for lap times - then bring on the sticky stuff!
09-25-2018, 04:23 PM
#37
Drifting
I ran Sumi HTRZ3 in the rear, Bridgestone S04 front...on the track...in wet...in 37deg for full day including when it dried up. It was fine. In fact made car understeer slightly less. I drove one the street and I forgot I had mismatched tires...because it doesnt matter. I think S04 is slightly better, but I’m getting sumi for fronts when these are done or time out.
Cheers!
Cheers!
09-25-2018, 04:47 PM
#38
Drifting
Guys... this thread is more chock-full of fantasy than the movie it refers to. If you have no idea what the tires do and what the advantages or disadvantages of each tire model is for each particular use case... please just keep your opinions to yourself or put up a bond large enough to cover other's car body shop and hospital bills. That's all folks, carry on.
09-25-2018, 06:11 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I've run two sets of cheap Yokohama S.drive tires on the Miata for the past 50,000 or so miles, and I bought them based on price and performance. They are not the worst tire, but nor are they the best tire. They seem to hit a decent balance of performance and value, and they are quite low cost.
Could I have tires that brake in a shorter distance? Sure, but I've only come close once in the past twenty years of needing to stand on the brakes, and that was in the Miata. ABS didn't even kick in.
Could I have tires that allow more grip in the corners? Sure, but then the car wouldn't slide around as much but, frankly, I hardly ever drive that hard in the on/off ramps to get sideways, at least not in the dry.
I don't know if I'd venture trying a very inexpensive, off-brand like Achilles. If it's going to be inexpensive, I'd rather stick with a trusted brand where I have some idea of the quality. That is, I think, where some of the guys are concerned about cheaping out on and slapping possibly crappy, no-name tires on a $50,000+ air-cooled driving icon.
Could I have tires that brake in a shorter distance? Sure, but I've only come close once in the past twenty years of needing to stand on the brakes, and that was in the Miata. ABS didn't even kick in.
Could I have tires that allow more grip in the corners? Sure, but then the car wouldn't slide around as much but, frankly, I hardly ever drive that hard in the on/off ramps to get sideways, at least not in the dry.
I don't know if I'd venture trying a very inexpensive, off-brand like Achilles. If it's going to be inexpensive, I'd rather stick with a trusted brand where I have some idea of the quality. That is, I think, where some of the guys are concerned about cheaping out on and slapping possibly crappy, no-name tires on a $50,000+ air-cooled driving icon.
09-25-2018, 08:04 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I typically pay nearly half that for two bicycle tyres (at good guy pricing)
You and I have differing ideas of what we need in tyres.
Must resist further comment.
09-25-2018, 09:16 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Bike Tires Direct forever. I think I bought out their entire stock of Michelin Pro 4 on sale at about $40 each. They’re less expensive here but we call them TIRES!!
09-25-2018, 11:28 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
And, if I notice a material difference in the handling or my cars ride, I can always replace the Achilles and try a different brand.
Thank you.
09-25-2018, 11:42 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I agree with Nile - you spend weeks obsessing over the radio in your car and then put tires on it that you "heard makes great tires"? Seriously?
For some perspective the Michelin tires I use on my racing bicycles cost about $45 each and weigh 200 grams or so. They're worn out in 1,000 miles. How can a 993 high performance tire be purchased for less than twice that amount?
I guess I could put no name tires on my bikes and spend like $15 per wheel - but for piece of mind going downhill at 40 mph I'd never do it.
For some perspective the Michelin tires I use on my racing bicycles cost about $45 each and weigh 200 grams or so. They're worn out in 1,000 miles. How can a 993 high performance tire be purchased for less than twice that amount?
I guess I could put no name tires on my bikes and spend like $15 per wheel - but for piece of mind going downhill at 40 mph I'd never do it.
Please lighten up. I'm using the Achilles tires to drive around the city and to the beach, 60 miles, on weekends in the summer. I do not race. If I notice a material difference in my cars ride or handling, I can always try a different tire. Feel free to spend what you want on tires, as am I. I see no reason, based on my intended use, to spend approximately two thousand dollars ($2000.00) for tires.
Thank you and be constructive.
09-26-2018, 04:52 AM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Totally get it, Nile. I trust your knowledge on tires, especially given your auto-x experience.
I guess I'd encourage folks to be honest with themselves about their usage model for tires on their 993. Make sure they are safe, appropriate for the weather conditions, blah, blah, blah. Don't just go out there and get some crazy high performance tire with capability approaching a racing slick by default.
Oh, and remember to always get N rated tires. ;-) .
I guess I'd encourage folks to be honest with themselves about their usage model for tires on their 993. Make sure they are safe, appropriate for the weather conditions, blah, blah, blah. Don't just go out there and get some crazy high performance tire with capability approaching a racing slick by default.
Oh, and remember to always get N rated tires. ;-) .
This is the most prudent (aha
point, though - horses for the courses. Choosing tires without first honestly accessing the way the car is used is just, umm... useless ((yep, another pun ). For my own street use, even though it is, honestly,, very grandma-like, I'm still leaning towards the stickiest tire I can get, or something close to it.. Part f it has to do with driving any of my cars for less than 5K miles a year.