993 WB car vs NB car... how much weight disadvantage?
08-13-2018, 12:01 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
993 WB car vs NB car... how much weight disadvantage?
All else equal, what is the weight penalty of the wide body 993 car compared to an apples to apples narrow butt 993? For example, a standard 993 Carrera from 1996 vs a 993 Carrera 2S from 1997/98?
Similarly, what is the same weight penalty for the 964 WB vs NB (all else equal) -- for example, a NB 964 Carrera 4 vs a WB Carrera 4 produced late in the 964 model run?
Just curious... my guess is 50-75 lbs, roughly???
Similarly, what is the same weight penalty for the 964 WB vs NB (all else equal) -- for example, a NB 964 Carrera 4 vs a WB Carrera 4 produced late in the 964 model run?
Just curious... my guess is 50-75 lbs, roughly???
08-13-2018, 07:07 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
The real weight saving issue for many is what's sitting in the driver's seat.
Many obsess and spend thousands on our cars to save a few pounds here and there, yet carry far more on their 2-legs.
Check your BMI(Body Mass Index) below:
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/edu...MI/bmicalc.htm
Many obsess and spend thousands on our cars to save a few pounds here and there, yet carry far more on their 2-legs.
Check your BMI(Body Mass Index) below:
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/edu...MI/bmicalc.htm
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08-13-2018, 07:34 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
No one here will ever feel a weight difference of 50 lbs. Hell, 100 lbs. didn't make much of a difference when I was racing, but I was just a very average amateur who was sometimes a front runner. You're likely to feel more of a handling difference with the understeer from the wider rear track.
Having owned both a non-varioram '95 and now a varioram '96, the varioram feels better/faster on the street. This is an absolutely unscientific observation based on two different cars at two entirely different times with zero data to back it up.
I chose another narrow body 993 because I just like the lines of it better and think it's more "pure" than a C2S. The wide body look with the 993 has never jazzed me that much.
Having owned both a non-varioram '95 and now a varioram '96, the varioram feels better/faster on the street. This is an absolutely unscientific observation based on two different cars at two entirely different times with zero data to back it up.
I chose another narrow body 993 because I just like the lines of it better and think it's more "pure" than a C2S. The wide body look with the 993 has never jazzed me that much.
08-13-2018, 10:16 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Once you put some rear wheels with a dish on a NB, the lines reveal themselves to you to be perfectly proportioned.
08-14-2018, 07:11 AM
#10
Biggest difference between C2 and C2S is, as someone suggested, aerodynamics.
When the cars were new Car and Driver tested both versions. The C2 did 13.6 seconds in the 1/4 mile while the C2S was closer to 14 seconds. The 0 - 150 mph times were even more dramatically different, the NB much faster at triple digit speeds. That's all from aero not the 44 lb weight difference.
When the cars were new Car and Driver tested both versions. The C2 did 13.6 seconds in the 1/4 mile while the C2S was closer to 14 seconds. The 0 - 150 mph times were even more dramatically different, the NB much faster at triple digit speeds. That's all from aero not the 44 lb weight difference.
08-14-2018, 10:41 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
i just drive mine on the street but i can feel the difference when i fill the gas tank.
08-14-2018, 03:00 PM
#12
No one here will ever feel a weight difference of 50 lbs. Hell, 100 lbs. didn't make much of a difference when I was racing, but I was just a very average amateur who was sometimes a front runner. You're likely to feel more of a handling difference with the understeer from the wider rear track.
Having owned both a non-varioram '95 and now a varioram '96, the varioram feels better/faster on the street. This is an absolutely unscientific observation based on two different cars at two entirely different times with zero data to back it up.
I chose another narrow body 993 because I just like the lines of it better and think it's more "pure" than a C2S. The wide body look with the 993 has never jazzed me that much.
Having owned both a non-varioram '95 and now a varioram '96, the varioram feels better/faster on the street. This is an absolutely unscientific observation based on two different cars at two entirely different times with zero data to back it up.
I chose another narrow body 993 because I just like the lines of it better and think it's more "pure" than a C2S. The wide body look with the 993 has never jazzed me that much.
This is best achieved through lightweight wheels and tires; and if you can't feel a noticeable difference through dropping 5-7 lbs per corner, you might very well be numb in the driving sensation dept.
I like good looking wheels as much as the next guy but never to the point of sacrificing suspension performance, moment of inertia or that the unsprung rotating mass. Physics 101.
P.S. I also agree with reducing unnecessary mass in the driver's seat; but for some, that's more difficult to achieve... and not as effective as the aforementioned upgrade.
08-14-2018, 03:32 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
I humbly agree to disagree! Reducing weight in unsprung rotating mass, is by far the best and most cost efficient upgrade you can do for your car.
This is best achieved through lightweight wheels and tires; and if you can't feel a noticeable difference through dropping 5-7 lbs per corner, you might very well be numb in the driving sensation dept.
I like good looking wheels as much as the next guy but never to the point of sacrificing suspension performance, moment of inertia or that the unsprung rotating mass. Physics 101.
P.S. I also agree with reducing unnecessary mass in the driver's seat; but for some, that's more difficult to achieve... and not as effective as the aforementioned upgrade.
This is best achieved through lightweight wheels and tires; and if you can't feel a noticeable difference through dropping 5-7 lbs per corner, you might very well be numb in the driving sensation dept.
I like good looking wheels as much as the next guy but never to the point of sacrificing suspension performance, moment of inertia or that the unsprung rotating mass. Physics 101.
P.S. I also agree with reducing unnecessary mass in the driver's seat; but for some, that's more difficult to achieve... and not as effective as the aforementioned upgrade.
Also, having added a lightweight flywheel to the former race car, I'd say there was very little perceived difference between it and the dual mass flywheel. Oh, sure, everyone who has installed a LWF says they can feel a difference, but, if perceptible at all, it is very slight. On the track where seconds are split, it's smart to gain every legal advantage possible to reduce lap times. However, on the street, something like a LWF is no big deal to me.
08-14-2018, 04:14 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Empty weight:
Carrera = 1,370 kg = 3,020 lbs
Carrera S = 1,400 kg = 3,086 lbs
Carrera 4 = 1,420 kg = 3,130 lbs
Carrera 4S = 1,450 kg = 3,196 lbs