Difficulty shifting out of gear(long)
01-16-2003, 10:47 AM
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Difficulty shifting out of gear(long)
First, I've searched and the info was helpful.
Ever since I bought my 993(used) on rare occasions I have had difficulty shifting out of gear-- usually 2nd gear as I come to a stop, up a steep hill. When I had my fluids changed at 30k miles it seems like the problem was less frequent. Now, at 38k, it is fairly regular. I am getting ready to take the car in for its annual checkup. My question is how should I proceed to address this problem? I am leaning towards starting with changing the fluids and flushing the slave cylinder and, if that is unsuccessful, then replacing the slave cylinder, then addressing the input shaft. Has anyone had the corrosion on the input shaft removed? If so, how much did it cost and did the fix last?
Ever since I bought my 993(used) on rare occasions I have had difficulty shifting out of gear-- usually 2nd gear as I come to a stop, up a steep hill. When I had my fluids changed at 30k miles it seems like the problem was less frequent. Now, at 38k, it is fairly regular. I am getting ready to take the car in for its annual checkup. My question is how should I proceed to address this problem? I am leaning towards starting with changing the fluids and flushing the slave cylinder and, if that is unsuccessful, then replacing the slave cylinder, then addressing the input shaft. Has anyone had the corrosion on the input shaft removed? If so, how much did it cost and did the fix last?
01-16-2003, 10:57 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
I have exactly the same problem Cant describe it better than You did. Changed fluids -- no effect, changed master cylinder -- no effect.
And worse, every specialist recommends different thing to do!!! It seems to be very common mistake but no clear solution yet. Weird!?
Most frequently mentioned
- bad fluid
- bad slave cyl
- bad master cyl
- misaligned gearchange linkage
- corroded shaft
- bad gearbox mount
I use double clutching and accelerator between to get out from II-nd gear.
And worse, every specialist recommends different thing to do!!! It seems to be very common mistake but no clear solution yet. Weird!?
Most frequently mentioned
- bad fluid
- bad slave cyl
- bad master cyl
- misaligned gearchange linkage
- corroded shaft
- bad gearbox mount
I use double clutching and accelerator between to get out from II-nd gear.
01-16-2003, 11:46 AM
#3
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I had the corroded shaft problem. My advice? If you think that's what it is, don't delay, fix it today. If that's what it is, it is very hard on the transmission.
01-16-2003, 12:01 PM
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Hey Don,
I once had this problem, and you may have found one of my posts on this subject during your archive search. My symptoms:
-Difficulty shifting out of (e.g.) 3rd gear when decelerating. A second operation of the clutch or waiting until the car came to a complete stop allowed me to shift out of gear with normal effort.
-Car could roll forward (in first gear) with the clutch fully depressed.
-After using first gear as a parking brake and leaving the car for awhile, usually had difficulty shifting out of first gear. Again, a second operation of the clutch allowed me to shift out of gear with normal effort.
While my car was at Protomotive getting the ECU tweaked, Todd Knighton drove my car, then analyzed my (unique) symptoms in great detail. He told me not to waste my money replacing the slave or master cylinders (I really wanted to try this less expensive approach), and to save my money for addressing the inside of the transmission.
Turns out Todd was right, as I had the notorious rusty input shaft. Since the transmission was already removed, I bit the bullet, and replaced the pressure plate, disc, throw-out bearing (full kit). Work was done 5/01, some 13k miles later, not a hint of stickiness shifting out of gear. Wonderful.
The clutch job which also fixed my sticking-in-gear problem cost $1210--parts, labor and tax. (FWIW, the work was not done by Todd K.--he was too busy, and his shop too far from my house to bring the car back.)
Good luck, Don, whichever approach you take.
I once had this problem, and you may have found one of my posts on this subject during your archive search. My symptoms:
-Difficulty shifting out of (e.g.) 3rd gear when decelerating. A second operation of the clutch or waiting until the car came to a complete stop allowed me to shift out of gear with normal effort.
-Car could roll forward (in first gear) with the clutch fully depressed.
-After using first gear as a parking brake and leaving the car for awhile, usually had difficulty shifting out of first gear. Again, a second operation of the clutch allowed me to shift out of gear with normal effort.
While my car was at Protomotive getting the ECU tweaked, Todd Knighton drove my car, then analyzed my (unique) symptoms in great detail. He told me not to waste my money replacing the slave or master cylinders (I really wanted to try this less expensive approach), and to save my money for addressing the inside of the transmission.
Turns out Todd was right, as I had the notorious rusty input shaft. Since the transmission was already removed, I bit the bullet, and replaced the pressure plate, disc, throw-out bearing (full kit). Work was done 5/01, some 13k miles later, not a hint of stickiness shifting out of gear. Wonderful.
The clutch job which also fixed my sticking-in-gear problem cost $1210--parts, labor and tax. (FWIW, the work was not done by Todd K.--he was too busy, and his shop too far from my house to bring the car back.)
Good luck, Don, whichever approach you take.
01-16-2003, 12:27 PM
#6
RL Technical Advisor
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Don Magee:
<strong>First, I've searched and the info was helpful.
Ever since I bought my 993(used) on rare occasions I have had difficulty shifting out of gear-- usually 2nd gear as I come to a stop, up a steep hill. When I had my fluids changed at 30k miles it seems like the problem was less frequent. Now, at 38k, it is fairly regular. I am getting ready to take the car in for its annual checkup. My question is how should I proceed to address this problem? I am leaning towards starting with changing the fluids and flushing the slave cylinder and, if that is unsuccessful, then replacing the slave cylinder, then addressing the input shaft. Has anyone had the corrosion on the input shaft removed? If so, how much did it cost and did the fix last?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Don:
I'm sorry to hear of your shifting difficulties; its really annoying and needs to be resolved before you accelerate wear inside the transmission.
If it were me, I'd first put new ATE fluid in the system and change the slave cylinder (they do not last forever). If that didn't do the job, then its time to do the mainshaft cleanup. Porsche specifies a special grease for that and if applied sparingly on the mainshaft (after polishing), that will cure it once-and-for-all.
<strong>First, I've searched and the info was helpful.
Ever since I bought my 993(used) on rare occasions I have had difficulty shifting out of gear-- usually 2nd gear as I come to a stop, up a steep hill. When I had my fluids changed at 30k miles it seems like the problem was less frequent. Now, at 38k, it is fairly regular. I am getting ready to take the car in for its annual checkup. My question is how should I proceed to address this problem? I am leaning towards starting with changing the fluids and flushing the slave cylinder and, if that is unsuccessful, then replacing the slave cylinder, then addressing the input shaft. Has anyone had the corrosion on the input shaft removed? If so, how much did it cost and did the fix last?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Don:
I'm sorry to hear of your shifting difficulties; its really annoying and needs to be resolved before you accelerate wear inside the transmission.
If it were me, I'd first put new ATE fluid in the system and change the slave cylinder (they do not last forever). If that didn't do the job, then its time to do the mainshaft cleanup. Porsche specifies a special grease for that and if applied sparingly on the mainshaft (after polishing), that will cure it once-and-for-all.
01-16-2003, 12:32 PM
#7
Don,
Be sure to check the motor mounts and transmission mount (or have your mechanic check them). After I had my clutch replaced, I started to have this problem. It would be very difficult to shift out of gear, even with the clutch fully depressed. It gradually got worse and worse. I was worried that the clutch job was botched, but before taking it back to my mechanic, I crawled under the car to check all the linkage bits. I found that the transmission mount was not tight. I tightened it, and the problem has gone away. The transmission mount is located at the front of the transmission, right near where the linkage attaches. I’m guessing that the transmission was shifting slightly, and this was miss-aligning the linkage. The linkage only has to be off a tiny little bit to cause shifting problems. You mention that this problem appears worse when you stop while going up a steep hill. This makes me think of the mounts, as the steep hill could cause the tranny to shift backwards a bit. In my case, the problem seemed worse the harder I came to a stop. I’m guessing that the transmission was shifting forward in these cases.
Good Luck,
Tom
’95 993
Be sure to check the motor mounts and transmission mount (or have your mechanic check them). After I had my clutch replaced, I started to have this problem. It would be very difficult to shift out of gear, even with the clutch fully depressed. It gradually got worse and worse. I was worried that the clutch job was botched, but before taking it back to my mechanic, I crawled under the car to check all the linkage bits. I found that the transmission mount was not tight. I tightened it, and the problem has gone away. The transmission mount is located at the front of the transmission, right near where the linkage attaches. I’m guessing that the transmission was shifting slightly, and this was miss-aligning the linkage. The linkage only has to be off a tiny little bit to cause shifting problems. You mention that this problem appears worse when you stop while going up a steep hill. This makes me think of the mounts, as the steep hill could cause the tranny to shift backwards a bit. In my case, the problem seemed worse the harder I came to a stop. I’m guessing that the transmission was shifting forward in these cases.
Good Luck,
Tom
’95 993
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01-16-2003, 08:52 PM
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Hi Jack,
The input shaft drives the gears inside the transmission. It's splined, and the clutch disc fits over the splines. When the clutch is engaged, it turns the input shaft, which drives the gears.
Corrosion on the input shaft prevents the clutch disc from fully releasing--binding, that is. At least this is the way I understand it. Of course, if the clutch is still engaged (coupled to the engine), you get weird things like sticking in gear and the car rolling forward with the pedal fully depressed.
In my case, a vent cover and plug were missing, and standing water (!) was found inside the bell housing. The corrosion was obvious. The shop cleaned up the shaft, and applied the proper sealant/lubricant--as specified in the shop manual, and as Steve mentioned above.
It appears that a lot of shops (even well respected ones) don't know to apply the sealant/lubricant. That's how my car got the way it did (didn't help leaving the plugs out, either
). Yet, I've read of more than one case of this problem on transmissions that have never been removed from the car. 
The input shaft drives the gears inside the transmission. It's splined, and the clutch disc fits over the splines. When the clutch is engaged, it turns the input shaft, which drives the gears.
Corrosion on the input shaft prevents the clutch disc from fully releasing--binding, that is. At least this is the way I understand it. Of course, if the clutch is still engaged (coupled to the engine), you get weird things like sticking in gear and the car rolling forward with the pedal fully depressed.
In my case, a vent cover and plug were missing, and standing water (!) was found inside the bell housing. The corrosion was obvious. The shop cleaned up the shaft, and applied the proper sealant/lubricant--as specified in the shop manual, and as Steve mentioned above.
It appears that a lot of shops (even well respected ones) don't know to apply the sealant/lubricant. That's how my car got the way it did (didn't help leaving the plugs out, either
). Yet, I've read of more than one case of this problem on transmissions that have never been removed from the car.
01-19-2003, 04:27 PM
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Randall:
From your post above, was the cost to clean up the input shaft $1200, more or less, including a new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing? That sounds relatively cheap for a full-blown clutch job, especially by Porsche standards.
From your post above, was the cost to clean up the input shaft $1200, more or less, including a new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing? That sounds relatively cheap for a full-blown clutch job, especially by Porsche standards.
07-10-2003, 04:21 PM
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That does sound pretty cheap for a non-DIY clutch job. But cleaning up the input shaft should take 5 minutes once you're already in there. When I did the G50 update on my Carrera, we knew to lube the input shaft. Sure hope my 993 doesn't need it until it's clutch job time.
07-10-2003, 04:51 PM
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Tom_993,
From time to time a have a similar "problem" of shifting in and out the gear when the car is standing/running on steep hill.
I am pretty sure the hard shifting at those situations cased by loose transmission box mounts.
Do we have any DIY or any articles dedicated to this topic?
How many bolts/mounts the transmission box is being hold on?
Where do they located? Which tools do we need to tight them? How easy to get to them? Does it require lifting the car on four jacks or just two..or one?
Any additional details would be appreciated. If not....I will just climb under the transmission box and I swear I will make some mess there
From time to time a have a similar "problem" of shifting in and out the gear when the car is standing/running on steep hill.
I am pretty sure the hard shifting at those situations cased by loose transmission box mounts.
Do we have any DIY or any articles dedicated to this topic?
How many bolts/mounts the transmission box is being hold on?
Where do they located? Which tools do we need to tight them? How easy to get to them? Does it require lifting the car on four jacks or just two..or one?
Any additional details would be appreciated. If not....I will just climb under the transmission box and I swear I will make some mess there
07-10-2003, 05:17 PM
#15
Hi Sputnik,
Lots of questions, let’s see if I can get them all. Warning: I did this a couple of years ago, and my memory may not be entirely accurate. What was it we were talking about? Oh yeah, tranny mounts…
Do we have any DIY or any articles dedicated to this topic?
> The best info on replacing the tranny mount I could find is on this thread: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=009872#000012" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=009872#000012</a>
Note that I did not replace mine; I simply tightened the loose bolt.
How many bolts/mounts the transmission box is being hold on? Where do they located?
> There is one mount at the front (toward the front of the car) of the transmission. The mount is a big rubber bushing, meant to isolate vibration and noise. There is one long bolt through this rubber bushing. There are several bolts in the bracket holding the rubber bushing. In my case, the bolt through the rubber bushing had not been tightened properly after a clutch replacement, and it was getting looser and looser. I pushed on things with a long screwdriver and could see movement. I tightened the main mount bolt, then I checked every nut and bolt I could get my wrench on as well, just in case.
Which tools do we need to tight them?
> I don’t recall exactly what I used. I used a selection of sockets, extensions, u-joints, box wrenches, etc, to get them all.
How easy to get to them?
> Not too bad. Remove the transmission cover, crawl under there, and you’ll see them.
Does it require lifting the car on four jacks or just two..or one?
> If I recall, I used two jack stands at the rear.
Don’t forget to check your motor mounts. Do the simple test (jack up your engine and check them) I mentioned on this thread: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=010155" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=010155</a>
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Tom
’95 993
Lots of questions, let’s see if I can get them all. Warning: I did this a couple of years ago, and my memory may not be entirely accurate. What was it we were talking about? Oh yeah, tranny mounts…
Do we have any DIY or any articles dedicated to this topic?
> The best info on replacing the tranny mount I could find is on this thread: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=009872#000012" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=009872#000012</a>
Note that I did not replace mine; I simply tightened the loose bolt.
How many bolts/mounts the transmission box is being hold on? Where do they located?
> There is one mount at the front (toward the front of the car) of the transmission. The mount is a big rubber bushing, meant to isolate vibration and noise. There is one long bolt through this rubber bushing. There are several bolts in the bracket holding the rubber bushing. In my case, the bolt through the rubber bushing had not been tightened properly after a clutch replacement, and it was getting looser and looser. I pushed on things with a long screwdriver and could see movement. I tightened the main mount bolt, then I checked every nut and bolt I could get my wrench on as well, just in case.
Which tools do we need to tight them?
> I don’t recall exactly what I used. I used a selection of sockets, extensions, u-joints, box wrenches, etc, to get them all.
How easy to get to them?
> Not too bad. Remove the transmission cover, crawl under there, and you’ll see them.
Does it require lifting the car on four jacks or just two..or one?
> If I recall, I used two jack stands at the rear.
Don’t forget to check your motor mounts. Do the simple test (jack up your engine and check them) I mentioned on this thread: <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=010155" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=010155</a>
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Tom
’95 993