Rookie mistakes, as usual. Help?
#1
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Rookie mistakes, as usual. Help?
While driving, fortunately very close (1/2 mile) to home on Saturday, the dash on my '95 C2 lit up with the ABS, Battery, and belt warning lights. I turned for home and parked the car as quickly as possible. Upon opening up the engine compartment, it was apparent the fan and alternator belts had let go. It does not appear the belt sensor was damaged.
As a bit of background, I have owned the C2 for a bit more than two years now and it has been very reliable. I try to do most of the work on my cars, but my skills are admittedly moderate and my luck is generally poor... The only major maintenance I have done is replacing the suspension. It was a lot of work, but I had some friends lend a hand and it all went well. Replacing the leaking lower valve cover gaskets did not go as smoothly due to a stuck bolt and some other issues which required professional assistance. In the end I did most of the work, however, and it so far it appears I did it correctly.
Since I don't have spare belts in hand (We'll call this rookie mistake No. 1), I decided as long as the car will be out of commission for a while I will get around to installing the new distributor caps and rotors which have been sitting on a shelf for a while. The car currently has 103,000 miles, and had 89,000 when I bought it. I have done no ignition related maintenance to date. I had the instructions from Pelican Parts handy and got to work. I did not take pictures before I started the work (Rookie mistake No. 2), though I thought the routing of the wires on the upper distributor cap looked very convoluted. I took my time and labeled each wire as it came off the distributor cap based on the corresponding number stamped into the distributor cap. I also managed to damage the ignition coil wire to the lower distributor cap when my hand slipped while pulling it, partially pulling the wire from the cap end. I'm guessing it's not possible to buy the ignition coil wires separately from the plug wires, so this was an expensive mistake (Rookie mistake No. 3 - three strikes and you're out!), and replacing the plug wires is a whole other issue...
At any rate, I took off each distributor cap and rotor and checked under the dust covers of each. The lower distributor shows signs of what I guess is minor rusting? (The upper distributor looks pretty much brand new.) Is refurbishing the distributor warranted for a condition like this? I cleaned the interior as best I could and made sure it was dry.
Minor rust?
Moving on, I replaced the lower rotor and distributor cap and tightened it down. I then replaced the spark plug wires. All seemed well. I then moved on to replacing the upper rotor and distributor cap and tightened it down. I installed this cap in the same orientation as the lower cap. Upon trying to reconnect the plug wires, however, I soon found - with the cap oriented in either possible direction - it was not going to be possible to attach one wire to the cap as the line was too short. I am not sure how this is possible. (Rookie mistake No. 4 - really, this is not going well!)
Obviously, I could have mislabeled the wires but I numbered each one as it came off the cap. I would think I would have discovered the error at some point, as each wire has a unique number. I am stumped on how to proceed at this point. Am I correct in assuming there is no way for me to know if the wires are always grouped in a single way as they come new? (As in, wires 1, 2, 3 are always at the top of the nearest wire clip and they are always in a certain order?) Short of somehow tracing each spark plug wire from the cylinder to the distributor is there any way to sort this out?
When I mess up, I mess up good. Any/all advice is greatly appreciated!
As a bit of background, I have owned the C2 for a bit more than two years now and it has been very reliable. I try to do most of the work on my cars, but my skills are admittedly moderate and my luck is generally poor... The only major maintenance I have done is replacing the suspension. It was a lot of work, but I had some friends lend a hand and it all went well. Replacing the leaking lower valve cover gaskets did not go as smoothly due to a stuck bolt and some other issues which required professional assistance. In the end I did most of the work, however, and it so far it appears I did it correctly.
Since I don't have spare belts in hand (We'll call this rookie mistake No. 1), I decided as long as the car will be out of commission for a while I will get around to installing the new distributor caps and rotors which have been sitting on a shelf for a while. The car currently has 103,000 miles, and had 89,000 when I bought it. I have done no ignition related maintenance to date. I had the instructions from Pelican Parts handy and got to work. I did not take pictures before I started the work (Rookie mistake No. 2), though I thought the routing of the wires on the upper distributor cap looked very convoluted. I took my time and labeled each wire as it came off the distributor cap based on the corresponding number stamped into the distributor cap. I also managed to damage the ignition coil wire to the lower distributor cap when my hand slipped while pulling it, partially pulling the wire from the cap end. I'm guessing it's not possible to buy the ignition coil wires separately from the plug wires, so this was an expensive mistake (Rookie mistake No. 3 - three strikes and you're out!), and replacing the plug wires is a whole other issue...
At any rate, I took off each distributor cap and rotor and checked under the dust covers of each. The lower distributor shows signs of what I guess is minor rusting? (The upper distributor looks pretty much brand new.) Is refurbishing the distributor warranted for a condition like this? I cleaned the interior as best I could and made sure it was dry.
Minor rust?
Moving on, I replaced the lower rotor and distributor cap and tightened it down. I then replaced the spark plug wires. All seemed well. I then moved on to replacing the upper rotor and distributor cap and tightened it down. I installed this cap in the same orientation as the lower cap. Upon trying to reconnect the plug wires, however, I soon found - with the cap oriented in either possible direction - it was not going to be possible to attach one wire to the cap as the line was too short. I am not sure how this is possible. (Rookie mistake No. 4 - really, this is not going well!)
Obviously, I could have mislabeled the wires but I numbered each one as it came off the cap. I would think I would have discovered the error at some point, as each wire has a unique number. I am stumped on how to proceed at this point. Am I correct in assuming there is no way for me to know if the wires are always grouped in a single way as they come new? (As in, wires 1, 2, 3 are always at the top of the nearest wire clip and they are always in a certain order?) Short of somehow tracing each spark plug wire from the cylinder to the distributor is there any way to sort this out?
When I mess up, I mess up good. Any/all advice is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by SpeedyC2; 02-26-2018 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Typos
#2
Rennlist Member
Were your belts original or when were they last changed?
#3
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#8
Rennlist Member
If the spark plugs and wires are also original then I would replace these as well
itll make a huge difference
check the dizzy belt is good also: if you twiddle one rotor the other should move too
if you insist on using old wires, if you clean them up you should be able to see markings to match the diagram above
the way the wires route is important because as you have found they are the exact required length
everything should be recoverable, did you pull a wire out of its crimp connector?
itll make a huge difference
check the dizzy belt is good also: if you twiddle one rotor the other should move too
if you insist on using old wires, if you clean them up you should be able to see markings to match the diagram above
the way the wires route is important because as you have found they are the exact required length
everything should be recoverable, did you pull a wire out of its crimp connector?
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If the spark plugs and wires are also original then I would replace these as well
itll make a huge difference
check the dizzy belt is good also: if you twiddle one rotor the other should move too
if you insist on using old wires, if you clean them up you should be able to see markings to match the diagram above
the way the wires route is important because as you have found they are the exact required length
everything should be recoverable, did you pull a wire out of its crimp connector?
itll make a huge difference
check the dizzy belt is good also: if you twiddle one rotor the other should move too
if you insist on using old wires, if you clean them up you should be able to see markings to match the diagram above
the way the wires route is important because as you have found they are the exact required length
everything should be recoverable, did you pull a wire out of its crimp connector?
I did pull one of the distributor wires partially out of its crimp connection. I'm guessing it's not reusable, which likely means new plug wires regardless.
One odd thing I'll note is the wiring on my car appears to be the opposite from the shop manual picture provided, in that wires 4, 5, and 6 on the top cap appear to be heading to the passenger side wiring loop, while on my car wires 1, 2, and 3 are coming from that side.
Last edited by SpeedyC2; 02-26-2018 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Typo
#10
Three Wheelin'
I know the commonly used Beru replacement ignition wires are labeled with the cylinder numbers. The genuine Porsche ones likely are as well. Do your wires have little numbers printed on them to indicate which cylinders they go to? If so, you should be able to easily match the wire to the correct place on the correct distributor.
The rats nest of wires in the 993 is a pain and the manufactures helped out a little bit in this case.
Edit: I see IanM mentioned the same thing above. Check for the little numbers on the ignition wires. That should remove all ambiguity.
The rats nest of wires in the 993 is a pain and the manufactures helped out a little bit in this case.
Edit: I see IanM mentioned the same thing above. Check for the little numbers on the ignition wires. That should remove all ambiguity.
#11
Three Wheelin'
BTW, there are very few things that will leave a 993 stranded. I posted a thread years ago and crowdsourced some data. If I remember correctly a large number of stranded 993s were from broken belts (fan and/or alternator).
For this reason, I strongly recommend everyone travel with the tools and knowledge to do a roadside repair of the belts. Even better is to spend the $40 and 30 mins to change them every couple years. It's cheap insurance. Obviously key fob batteries and DME relays were probably more common, but belts weren't far behind.
Even better, go baller style and get the Clewett setup.
For this reason, I strongly recommend everyone travel with the tools and knowledge to do a roadside repair of the belts. Even better is to spend the $40 and 30 mins to change them every couple years. It's cheap insurance. Obviously key fob batteries and DME relays were probably more common, but belts weren't far behind.
Even better, go baller style and get the Clewett setup.
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I know the commonly used Beru replacement ignition wires are labeled with the cylinder numbers. The genuine Porsche ones likely are as well. Do your wires have little numbers printed on them to indicate which cylinders they go to? If so, you should be able to easily match the wire to the correct place on the correct distributor.
The rats nest of wires in the 993 is a pain and the manufactures helped out a little bit in this case.
Edit: I see IanM mentioned the same thing above. Check for the little numbers on the ignition wires. That should remove all ambiguity.
The rats nest of wires in the 993 is a pain and the manufactures helped out a little bit in this case.
Edit: I see IanM mentioned the same thing above. Check for the little numbers on the ignition wires. That should remove all ambiguity.
I looked and did not readily see numbers on the wires, but I will inspect more closely. If they are there I will feel MUCH better!
#14
#15
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