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On closer inspection I think my problem is different.
My car has a rebuilt rack with new bushings and all new front suspension (PSS10, tie rods, ball joints, wheel bearings, all rubber bushings replaced with stock OEM), I have the steering rack brace and 1yr old Bridgestones at correct pressure with a verified awesome alignment. I've narrowed the play down to the bottom of the shaft by jiggling the wheel with one hand while holding the various parts under the dash but it's hard to tell due to the change in rotational angle makes everything move wrt everything.
So I made a video (my Iphone can get places my fat head can't) which I'm trying to figure out how to upload. But this seems to point to a black block (rubber isolation joint?) between the U-joint and the bottom of the column shaft.
This part isn't available separately, only part of the $1200 column so can anyone provide any experience?
It looks like this part has 2 bolts for the column and 2 bolts for the U-joint. Is it possible to disassemble this block?
Has anyone else found play in this joint?
comments?
Did you confirm it is the u-joint/bushing is the root cause of the problem? Perhaps you can get a friend to hold the female spline part of the steering column and you turn the steering wheel to reproduce the play?
If you think it is the u-joint/bushing, looking at it looks like there is something keeping it together. I did not take apart this part of my car, but it does looks very similar to the shifter rod which I did replace with a FDM goldenrod. Jackyl-forge did a mod to tighten this bushing instead of going the FDM route. Maybe an inexpensive mod can be applied here?
Great link, Thanks Samurai.
That rubber block looks exactly like the one on the steering column and is riveted at one end as I feared. (#30 in diag and a clear picture if you scroll down)
I'll try tightening the 2 nuts to see if the rubber has shrunk in 22 years. That would be a lucky break.
Samurai is correct, that the isolation rubber, is almost (if not exact) identical to the shift rods rubber flap. The problem with Jackals tightening fix, is the rubber deteriorates, and there's sleeves that are encased in this rubber. It can only tighten as much as the sleeves allow. What may work, is to find an adequate material, (same thickness) that could be fabbed to size. Softer urethane, fabric ply rubber....?
What may work, is to find an adequate material, (same thickness) that could be fabbed to size. Softer urethane, fabric ply rubber....?
good thinking! I did a search and found this: https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...=JWST-G50-CPLR
but we're looking at removing drivers seat and the steering column to drill out the rivets. That's a lot of PTO! I think its best to do a confirmed diagnosis first.
I hope I've attached the video I mentioned. I was able to get mov to mpeg conversion which brought it to forum size limits (thankyou ffmpeg)
In the vid you can hear the clonking of the steering. I'm not convinced the play is here at all, as I said, the rotation angle change of the UJ makes everything seem to be moving out of sync.
Even feeling the joints as I wiggle the wheel as you suggested, Samurai, The play is so slight I can talk myself into feeling it in all the joints.
Whats the crowdsource opinion. Where you you see play here?
Sometimes if the toe adjustment front or rear is out slightly it feels like play in the steering column.
I would think the rubber isolater in the steering column would have to be crumbling in your hands to be the root cause.
I have ownd two 911 one owned to over 150K miles on the odometer and now my 993 with 100k, Have never had an isolater issue.
If you turn the the steering wheel with the engine off very slightly where the steering knuckle doesn't move does the steering wheel return to its original position when you let go of it?
If not your issue may be the isolater or even a column bushing.otherwise maybe not.
Andy
That PP piece looks as though it'd work, but replacing the rubber with plastic, will surely remove its isolation properties. Do you really wanna feel, absolutely everything the wheels transmit? Might be a novel feeling, for a minute. I can see it now, "damnit, just ran over another cigarette butt" :-)
There is definitely play in the steering. I an hear it when jiggling the wheel slightly. I can feel it driving, there's a dead zone where I can move the wheel and the car doesn't respond
im wondering it it's the lower UJ spline onto the rack now as that is the only joint I haven't been able to feel
im also trying to work out if I need to remove the rack or if, as Andy implies in another thread, that you can remove the splined UJ from inside the car without removing the column
Andy implies in another thread, that you can remove the splined UJ from inside the car without removing the column
Yes the spline with joint can be removed w/o the rack taken out of position, it fall down into your hand when not clamped to the rack.
Some thoughts,
I believe there are actually two universal joints in the steering column.
If you hear or feel a clicking it is probably not the rubber joint.
Once you remove the spline you can test the two joints for play individually, they are very beefy and unlikely to have play.
It may sound sort of basic but you can check the inner and outer tie-rod ends for play by looking at them while someone rocks the steering wheel back and forth.
I would check the bushings in the top part of the column for play.
Grab the steering wheel and move it up and down and side to side and see if there is any wobble or clicking noise.
The reason I suggest this is this is an know issue on certain years of 911 where the bushings deteriorate.
The fix was to remove the steering wheel push the old plastic bushing down the shaft out of the way and replace it with a steel one, the steel one was a 928 part number.
Just some thoughts,
Andy
Do you have stock tie rods? Have you pinned them? I believe the tie rods themselves have some movement to them that can make the steering less precise. I went with the elephant racing bump steer correction tie rods and they definitely made a difference. Did you replace the steering rack bushings? Before a replaced mine with poly ones, I had the car on a four post lift and when under the car, when my friend turned the steering wheel I could see the rack move around. I don't think the giubo is worn out, it is inside the car and protected from the elements so it should last much longer then the one on the shifter.
Thanks everyone
the front suspension is all new stock and the rack was rebuilt as of 3 years ago and last season the steering was tight & precise
theres no side to side or up and down play in the steering wheel just a rotational play and the clonk comes from below the dash
its very minor and slight but is not Ok for me
this weekend I'll take out the pedalboard and the lower UJ piece as Andy describes and see what's what
will post with more info then
Do you have stock tie rods? Have you pinned them? I believe the tie rods themselves have some movement to them that can make the steering less precise. I went with the elephant racing bump steer correction tie rods and they definitely made a difference. Did you replace the steering rack bushings? Before a replaced mine with poly ones, I had the car on a four post lift and when under the car, when my friend turned the steering wheel I could see the rack move around. I don't think the giubo is worn out, it is inside the car and protected from the elements so it should last much longer then the one on the shifter.
This is an interesting subject. After having the tie rods out for examination it seems the inner tie rod ends have a
rigid steel bearing surface on the ***** outside socket side and a rubber one on the ball's inside socket side.
Under normal street conditions the tow setting of the front wheels puts a considerable constant force of the tie rod ball to the outside rigid bearing surface and so there is no play.
On uneven pavement where road surface conditions counteract this constant force the ball may shift momentarily to the inside soft compressible bearing made of rubber.
This dampens the higher frequency shock from the uneven road surface so it is not transmitted to a great extent up to the steering wheel
while also communicating, what some perceive as, a reduction of precision in the steering.
Andy
Well sometimes you get lucky! Once I got the pedalboard off it was clear what the problem was; the lower spline onto the steering rack. I guess I must have forgotten to tighten it properly when I rebuilt the rack but the bolt was loose. 10 clicks of the ratchet and the laser sharp steering is back. Thanks for the help thinking this one through!
Well sometimes you get lucky! Once I got the pedalboard off it was clear what the problem was; the lower spline onto the steering rack. I guess I must have forgotten to tighten it properly when I rebuilt the rack but the bolt was loose. 10 clicks of the ratchet and the laser sharp steering is back. Thanks for the help thinking this one through!
02-11-2018, 07:26 PM
slight play in steering
