Lorenfb

Yes, I've heard others indicate this. But in the many years being involved with 993 readiness monitors and having used
many OBDII scanners (including Porsche's factory tool), I've never observed a 993 reporting partial completion of the monitors.
Only with the Porsche tool can one observe the cycle flags (progression of monitors setting) being set during driving.
As I said, once the key is cycled (or battery disconnected) and all monitors are NOT set, any monitors that were set are reset.

The procedure being done by the OP is the same as has always been noted by many on Rennlist with the exception that
the SAI monitor test is prevented from running by having a warm engine and doing a CEL reset. The only benefit to this
procedure is when there's a SAI problem, otherwise it's really not any different than procedures expressed by many on Rennlist
over the years. As noted, here in CA all 5 monitors must be set. At issue also is whether a test station, with their scanner,
can detect a partial OBDII monitor setup. Furthermore, if the key is cycled before the test station can perform the test, the
monitors are reset.

The AL519 scanner is on its way and I'll test & report what I find.

JasonAndreas

Definitely make sure you guys are comparing the same Bosch software revision numbers! The original Bosch ecu definition file that I have for the MY96 OBD2 993 ECU DOES NOT support OBDII Mode 9 PID 8 "Testerkommunikation CARB; Mode 9, Request Vehicle Information". Which I think is the only way to get the readiness code cycle counts under (there are other ways to read the CDSLS but not via) OBDII? But it wouldn't surprise me if it was added for MY97/MY98 as I see it there for the 986 and 996 ecus.

Jay777

Thanks Al, Greg for the kind words.

I posted my research only in the hope it would help others. I'm not selling anything, running any kind of scam and have nothing at all to gain other than the satisfaction of contributing something useful to a community that is absolutely awesome. If it works out for others, great, if it doesn't, that's cool too, but let's at least give it a try before dismissing it because it’s different.

Moving forward….Andy (pp000830) has offered to formalize a draft of the procedure and will post it shortly so that anyone who wants to try it can print it out for ready reference. I stress it’s a DRAFT. I expect and hope it will undergo numerous revisions as feedback comes in. The steps may not be “optimal” but they were chosen to be easy to replicate. My only suggestion is we all start with these until such time as feedback dictates a new approach. Whether or not it proves widely useful depends on participation from as many people as possible. I’m happy to take the lead on this and I look forward to working with everyone who wants to contribute in a constructive way.

–Jay

Jay777

Good idea. It'll be a useful additon to the data base.

Jay777

YES! stopping at 3 monitors is what makes the whole thing work..

Bingo

So we agree:
Going to emissions with the AIR monitor NOT READY (and 3 others READY) will enable vehicles with SAI issues to legally PASS.

That leaves the task of developing a procedure (or procedures) that work for as many vehicles as possible.
I'm proposing we start with the one that works on my '97.

Clear?

pp000830

I spoke to Jay today and he reviewed and he encouraged me to publish the attached form.
It is intended to make going through Jay's procedure easy to follow and to complete it successfully.
Andy

Attached form updated with notes 12/15/2017

Lorenfb

Assumptions:

1. Only useful for states that don't require 5 set monitors and for 993s with known SAI problems.
Some states define which monitors MUST have been completed of the less than 5.
2. That the car can be tested immediately before it cools down and tries to run the SAI test.
3. That all emissions stations can read the OBDII status with less than five monitors set.
4. That fault codes don't occur during the test drives, i.e. during a monitor test or when
being tested by the emissions station.

Problems:

1. The same as when doing the standard test, i.e. one never knows when the 1st trip is complete
and when to start the 2nd trip, and in the case of some '96 993s - the 3rd trip.
2. A minimum of two to three trips must be made before any monitors will be reported by an OBDII
scanner as before the workaround procedure.

Lorenfb

1. CA now requires 5 set monitors.
2. It's only an assumption that after three separate 20 mile drives that at least three monitors will be set.
3. It's only an assumption that the monitors will set in the order described, if at all.
4. That the AL519 can determine when less than 5 monitors are present for all 993s DME ECM firmware versions.
5. It appears that one still doesn't know the status of the monitors until all the required number of trips (2/3) is complete.

Lorenfb

So only some 993 DME ECM firmware versions will display less 5 completed monitors? And if so, that would explain why this workaround is unique
in its utility and hasn't been mentioned before. The later 996 is typical of all OBDII vehicles in that it always displays any number of completed monitors.

pp000830

Just as Jay states he did his test on a 97 C2, it seems we simply don't know for other firmware versions how this procedure works. Other versions may or may not be able to display the five status codes individually or thwart providing the status of a code item with a NOT READY status. We also don't know how each State's reader software handles the issue. Do some state read different things?
It may be helpful to have Jay and some other rennlist members read out the Motronic software version number for their cars with their OBDC reader and publish it here.

I suspect Jay's experience will be quite common as why would BOSCH revise an embedded system on a car that is there purely to meet regulatory requirements not to alter performance.
Andy

bw993

As of Oct. 2016, per the California Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR):

Gasoline Vehicle Standards BUREAU OF AUTOMOTIVE REPAIR • Number of incomplete monitors allowed to pass on gasoline powered vehicles:
– Old standard: any two for 1996 to 2000 model years – New standard: any one for 1996 to 1999 (BAR-97 test)
– Old standard: any one for 2001 & newer model years – New standard: only evap. for 2000 & newer (BAR-OIS test)

Looks like only 4 monitors need to be set in California for 993's with OBDII.

Jay777

That was my understanding. Can you find if there's a restriction on which ones have to be READY? If AIR isn't one of them, there's hope -just need a drive cycle to get there. It is possible - my car had everything but AIR ready when I tested in July. Wasn't taking notes back then.

Cali could be tough, but we can work on it.

Thanks for the feedback. It's what this is all about.

Jay777

A great addition to the database, Andy - even better If it doesn't involve yanking the seat. Does it?

It would be a windfall if all vehicles ODB's were the same but I suspect that won't be the case. While each variant could require a different drive cycle, I doubt that the number of variants will turn out to be is unworkably large. Even if that were the case, each owner could develop his own SAI Drive Cycle with a lot less effort than a roter rooter job..

Jay777

About a month ago I did a google search "How many readiness monitors are required in [state]" I stopped after the first dozen which all indicated only 3 were required. There are two other indications this is the norm rather than an exception:
a) It IS the DEP recommendation
b) The reader I use has an illuminated exclamation mark that goes out as soon as at least 3 monitors are READY. Sort of an idiot light to tell people they can go to emissions.

Once again…the whole point of the thread.
But now that you mention it …. others will benefit. If a state requires only 3, why bust your hump trying to get 5? I don’t know how many posts I’ve seen of people struggling to get 5 their monitors READY- usually in a time crunch before emissions day. I simpler cycle that gets them ready would be a big help. Curious why, in all these posts, I never saw a single one that ever pointed out the “3-Monitor rule”. The information is readily available. Anyone know why?

.
CT can. And think about it…How else would emissions be able to implement the “3-monitor minimum” without being able to see or at least count them? Also,does it make any sense at all that state emissions has technology inferior to a $20 handheld? (In addition to the Autel I have a cheepie that can also display individual monitors, as they occur).

The first I heard of the 3-monitor rule was back in July when talking to my shop dude about doing the dreaded port cleanout. Before agreeing to do the cleanout (and to his credit) he wanted to see if he could get it emissions to pass, which puzzled me at the time. I think he was trying to get out of a nasty job! Anyway, he said he only had 2 monitors READY and couldn’t get a third. I said “Don’t you need all 5?” and he said no, just 3. I didn’t believe it, so I called emissions to check and, yep, only 3 are required (any 3). Sometime in the next few days after some casual driving with I noticed AIR was now the only monitor not ready. I called my guy to see what he recommended. He said “GET DOWN TO EMISSIONS RIGHT NOW AND GET TESTED!”, which I did and passed. The rest is history. Side note: his reader also displays the individual monitors as they occur so this feature is common, if not the norm in ODB readers.

.
We’ll need feedback from others to confirm. But my experience thus far with the SAI Drive Cycle is that the monitors behave in a predicable manner and that there’s a wide margin of error from the time you get 3 READIES to when you can test without your SAI fault getting detected. In my experience, SAI codes P410 and P1411 and CEL don’t rear their ugly head until AIR is ready and as noted in the original post, even after AIR goes READY those codes don’t get thrown and the CEL doesn’t trip (on my car) until 12 -17 miles more are driven. (It appears to be a mileage thing, not time, because on one run there was a 2-hr gap in the middle of the 12 mile leg to the CEL).

You’re struggling with the basic concept because your stuck thinking of it like it’s the Standard ODB Test Drive. It’s not. It’s a stripped down version we'll refer to as the "SAI Drive Cycle”.
in a nutshell:

The goal of the Standard ODB test drive is to get all 5 monitors ready.

The goal of the SAI Drive Cycle is get 3 ready, one not being AIR

Critiquing the SAI Drive Cycle using terminology and methodology which only has meaning within the context of the Standard SAI Drive Cycle makes no sense, is confusing to others, and slows progress.
Please try to get past it.

Jay777

Cali may not have a workaround.

**** Oct 15 note ******
CA only requires 4 monitors set (any 4) for our 96-99 cars, so the workaround can be used in CA if a way can be found to set the O2 monitor. Iv'e personally gotten 4 monitors set with AIR off on my car, so it's possible.

.

Agreed. It's the reason we will "Crowd test"

Not exaclty sure what you mean here. If by "trips" your're referring to Standard Drive Cycle Trips, the point is moot (see post 29).
If this is reference to a reader not being able to display subsets of ready monitors, i think we've established that already.