2020 NEXT GENERATION 992 SPY PICS & RELEASE
09-05-2018, 07:28 PM
#2431
It's always like this. It was even like this when the 901 replaced the 356!
Some people left the brand/the 911 when Porsche lengthened the wheelbase...
... or added impact bumpers ...
... or got rid of the 915 transmission ...
... or got rid of torsion bars ...
... or got rid of pontoon front fenders ...
... or got rid of air cooling ...
... or got rid of the Mezger ...
... or got rid of hydraulic steering ...
And yet they keep making more money, which gives them more money to develop class-leading cars!
I believe that their only true misstep in recent years was the 996, and not just the headlights: the rear ends looks like a baboon's ***, the interior is terribly dated now, and overall quality and durability levels are markedly lower than the air cooled cars (or subsequent water cooled cars).
The 992 will be great and continue to occupy the market position that is has held for decades. Many of the whiners in this very thread will quietly eat crow and buy one. And then the cycle will start all over again in 7-8 years when the next generation is released.
Some people left the brand/the 911 when Porsche lengthened the wheelbase...
... or added impact bumpers ...
... or got rid of the 915 transmission ...
... or got rid of torsion bars ...
... or got rid of pontoon front fenders ...
... or got rid of air cooling ...
... or got rid of the Mezger ...
... or got rid of hydraulic steering ...
And yet they keep making more money, which gives them more money to develop class-leading cars!
I believe that their only true misstep in recent years was the 996, and not just the headlights: the rear ends looks like a baboon's ***, the interior is terribly dated now, and overall quality and durability levels are markedly lower than the air cooled cars (or subsequent water cooled cars).
The 992 will be great and continue to occupy the market position that is has held for decades. Many of the whiners in this very thread will quietly eat crow and buy one. And then the cycle will start all over again in 7-8 years when the next generation is released.
I’m also not a fan of the front bumper on the non-sport design 991.1’s. The 991.2 front bumper looks great with both sport and non-sport design. Porsche seems to figure out each new generation a few models years in so I’m in no rush to get my name on an allocation right now.
I do hope the duck tail will make a comeback sometime during the 992 generation 🙂
09-05-2018, 07:35 PM
#2432
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Plus, so far as I can see no one here has taken any issue for performance related or structural changes, if for no other reason than the fact that none of us yet know what said changes are.
My question was purely from, and limited to, a stylistic perspective.
I wasn't a part of the Porsche world at that time but I can't imagine as many 997 owners looked at pics of a 991 and said damn that thing is butt ugly, or did they?
Even if they did I'd bet a bottle of pappy that no one said, "wtf is up with that shifter?"
And a second bottle if a person can be identified in a Porsche focus group that said "hey you know what sucks? Having the option to shift the pdk with my hand"
That's literally the definition of an answer looking for a terrible question no one ever asked.
My question was purely from, and limited to, a stylistic perspective.
I wasn't a part of the Porsche world at that time but I can't imagine as many 997 owners looked at pics of a 991 and said damn that thing is butt ugly, or did they?
Even if they did I'd bet a bottle of pappy that no one said, "wtf is up with that shifter?"
And a second bottle if a person can be identified in a Porsche focus group that said "hey you know what sucks? Having the option to shift the pdk with my hand"
That's literally the definition of an answer looking for a terrible question no one ever asked.
Structurally, the platform is supposed to be 991 based and I am sure they turn up the wick on the existing 3.0 engines.
09-05-2018, 09:15 PM
#2433
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by phow
I do hope the duck tail will make a comeback sometime during the 992 generation 🙂
I do like what they do back there with the real TURBO S models.
09-05-2018, 09:53 PM
#2434
Drifting
This is such an empty argument, so you believe the 996 was a misstep looking back but when people complained about it when it was coming out they too were written off just the same right?
All the previous supposed complaints you have listed were all for good and logical reasons and many of which were done to increase the driving experience and performance. Now it's much harder to justify these changes as such and I'd argue most of this 992's design issues represent nothing more than needless change for the sake of change.
Some people left the brand/the 911 when Porsche lengthened the wheelbase... * To improve stability with little to no drawbacks.
... or added impact bumpers ... * Obvious safety reasons.
... or got rid of the 915 transmission ... * The transmission was downright horrible and outdated when it was finally phased out. I don't know a single person who prefers that ghastly gearbox over the G50.
... or got rid of torsion bars ... * Done for obvious performance reasons with no drawbacks that I could see.
... or got rid of pontoon front fenders ... * Done for obvious aerodynamic improvements
... or got rid of air cooling ... * Done for obvious performance reasons , air cooling was pushed as far as it could have ever gone.
... or got rid of the Mezger ... * Replacing an outdated engine that had reached the end of it's logical cycle.
... or got rid of hydraulic steering ... * Slightly controversial with slightly reduced feel but ultimately done for efficiency gains. Still the best in the business for electric steering and reduced complexity.
There is no crow to eat here as many including myself view this 992 generation to be the very end. In 7-8 years the 911 will likely cease to exist as we know it and it will definitely not be it's own platform and if it's even allowed to retain an ICE will likely be so distorted with over complicated electrical hybrid nonsense that it might as well be renamed altogether.
All the previous supposed complaints you have listed were all for good and logical reasons and many of which were done to increase the driving experience and performance. Now it's much harder to justify these changes as such and I'd argue most of this 992's design issues represent nothing more than needless change for the sake of change.
Some people left the brand/the 911 when Porsche lengthened the wheelbase... * To improve stability with little to no drawbacks.
... or added impact bumpers ... * Obvious safety reasons.
... or got rid of the 915 transmission ... * The transmission was downright horrible and outdated when it was finally phased out. I don't know a single person who prefers that ghastly gearbox over the G50.
... or got rid of torsion bars ... * Done for obvious performance reasons with no drawbacks that I could see.
... or got rid of pontoon front fenders ... * Done for obvious aerodynamic improvements
... or got rid of air cooling ... * Done for obvious performance reasons , air cooling was pushed as far as it could have ever gone.
... or got rid of the Mezger ... * Replacing an outdated engine that had reached the end of it's logical cycle.
... or got rid of hydraulic steering ... * Slightly controversial with slightly reduced feel but ultimately done for efficiency gains. Still the best in the business for electric steering and reduced complexity.
There is no crow to eat here as many including myself view this 992 generation to be the very end. In 7-8 years the 911 will likely cease to exist as we know it and it will definitely not be it's own platform and if it's even allowed to retain an ICE will likely be so distorted with over complicated electrical hybrid nonsense that it might as well be renamed altogether.
Then don’t buy one, or buy an older car - they have made over a million of them!
Based on your reply above i would hazard a guess that you’re much older than me.
Oh I already know I’ll be buying a 992 and I’m not a fan yet of the exterior changes. I’m hoping they will grow on me or be improved in the GTS and GT models because those will be the cars I’ll be buying.
I’m also not a fan of the front bumper on the non-sport design 991.1’s. The 991.2 front bumper looks great with both sport and non-sport design. Porsche seems to figure out each new generation a few models years in so I’m in no rush to get my name on an allocation right now.
I do hope the duck tail will make a comeback sometime during the 992 generation 🙂
09-05-2018, 10:04 PM
#2435
Rennlist Member
David, do you really think that interior is appropriate for a GT 911?
It's really saying something when it is AMG that understands people who use their cars on track and puts the important stuff within reach and analog based like the GTR does with its traction control settings ... because you know, fiddling with a touch screen infotainment system may not be the best thing to do mid lap. And if they took away the mode and suspension buttons from the center and relocated it to the screen that will indeed be a non starter for me. And that's coming from someone who has already owned five 991s and has at least two more coming. Not that it means anything to Porsche as there will be people lining up to take my allocations, but it's not about them or Porsche, it's about what I want out of a car, and how much I am willing to compromise to get one of the last NA manual GT cars. Hopefully there will have the good sense to put the important stuff on their GT car on the steering wheel Italian style.
It's really saying something when it is AMG that understands people who use their cars on track and puts the important stuff within reach and analog based like the GTR does with its traction control settings ... because you know, fiddling with a touch screen infotainment system may not be the best thing to do mid lap. And if they took away the mode and suspension buttons from the center and relocated it to the screen that will indeed be a non starter for me. And that's coming from someone who has already owned five 991s and has at least two more coming. Not that it means anything to Porsche as there will be people lining up to take my allocations, but it's not about them or Porsche, it's about what I want out of a car, and how much I am willing to compromise to get one of the last NA manual GT cars. Hopefully there will have the good sense to put the important stuff on their GT car on the steering wheel Italian style.
09-05-2018, 11:49 PM
#2436
Drifting
David, do you really think that interior is appropriate for a GT 911?
It's really saying something when it is AMG that understands people who use their cars on track and puts the important stuff within reach and analog based like the GTR does with its traction control settings ... because you know, fiddling with a touch screen infotainment system may not be the best thing to do mid lap. And if they took away the mode and suspension buttons from the center and relocated it to the screen that will indeed be a non starter for me. And that's coming from someone who has already owned five 991s and has at least two more coming. Not that it means anything to Porsche as there will be people lining up to take my allocations, but it's not about them or Porsche, it's about what I want out of a car, and how much I am willing to compromise to get one of the last NA manual GT cars. Hopefully there will have the good sense to put the important stuff on their GT car on the steering wheel Italian style.
It's really saying something when it is AMG that understands people who use their cars on track and puts the important stuff within reach and analog based like the GTR does with its traction control settings ... because you know, fiddling with a touch screen infotainment system may not be the best thing to do mid lap. And if they took away the mode and suspension buttons from the center and relocated it to the screen that will indeed be a non starter for me. And that's coming from someone who has already owned five 991s and has at least two more coming. Not that it means anything to Porsche as there will be people lining up to take my allocations, but it's not about them or Porsche, it's about what I want out of a car, and how much I am willing to compromise to get one of the last NA manual GT cars. Hopefully there will have the good sense to put the important stuff on their GT car on the steering wheel Italian style.
Hopefully there are no buttons or dials on the steering wheel, in keeping with AP philosophy and previous practice.
09-06-2018, 09:15 AM
#2437
The 992 interior dash being so straight across reminds me of sedan styling .. something you'd see in an Audi or BMW.
Attachment 1289767
Attachment 1289767
09-06-2018, 09:45 AM
#2438
Race Director
Thread Starter
^^^ Great reference pictures. Sometimes taking some nostalgic cues in design for the sake of doing it doesn't always pull it off. It's like they're going back in time for classic 911 design ideas for legitimacy, but mixing in design from the other current Porsche models (Panny, Cayenne, Macan). Potential for a HOT MESS.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
09-06-2018, 09:56 AM
#2440
Rennlist Member
^^^ Great reference pictures. Sometimes taking some nostalgic cues in design for the sake of doing it doesn't always pull it off. It's like they're going back in time for classic 911 design ideas for legitimacy, but mixing in design from the other current Porsche models (Panny, Cayenne, Macan). Potential for a HOT MESS.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
I actually said those same words to someone: "This is a lazy design". They threw in the homage to Porsche's past, but it is heavily a Panamera coupe. For me, the design looks to be for easy assembly and parts sharing.
Porsche is becoming like BMW's General Motors approach, and that's what drove me from the BMW marque to Porsche. The Lotus Evora 400 may start to take some business and others may also see the opportunity, especially as they drive the price upwards $10k with each new iteration.
09-06-2018, 10:29 AM
#2441
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Dan Nagy
especially as they drive the price upwards $10k with each new iteration.
I've been saying for a while now that Porsche MSRP pricing is very aggressive. Reason why Hot for Sale has been a huge hit. These cars are overpriced for what you get. That's a fact. They've been able to get year over year price increases and ride the worldwide economic wave for the past 8+ years. That's fine and what any business would do. They've gotten a bit arrogant at the dealer level, and trust me when a an economic slowdown happens (it always does), they will get hit HARD. Most of the people that have driven their growth are the the ones who feel more wealthy than they really are.
09-06-2018, 10:36 AM
#2442
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Dan Nagy
I actually said those same words to someone: "This is a lazy design". They threw in the homage to Porsche's past, but it is heavily a Panamera coupe. For me, the design looks to be for easy assembly and parts sharing.
Exactly. Once took apart my sun visor and one piece had a VW stamp on it
09-06-2018, 10:56 AM
#2443
^^^ Great reference pictures. Sometimes taking some nostalgic cues in design for the sake of doing it doesn't always pull it off. It's like they're going back in time for classic 911 design ideas for legitimacy, but mixing in design from the other current Porsche models (Panny, Cayenne, Macan). Potential for a HOT MESS.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
If they were truly passionate about the 911, they would treat it as a stand alone model and not one that has to be an offspring of the other models in the Porsche line. The design inbreeding is bad and lazy design.
The 992 interior is a hot mess because the one or two cues taken from older gen cars isn't going to suddenly render the 992 a clean, modern and function design ( it appears quite far from it). It's loaded with needless driver distractions , questionable ergonomics and tech overload. Porsche has lost it's way when it comes to carefully integrating technology with functionality. If you need examples of modern, functional sports car interiors that smartly integrate technology check out the Ferrari 488 and Mclaren P1, 570S and Lamborghini Huracan interiors.
09-06-2018, 11:52 AM
#2445
Race Director
Thread Starter
