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If they offers a 6 speed manual in the regular 992s, these 6 speed manual cars most likely will get hit with a $1000+ gas guzzler tax. And a lot of people will gladly pay for it.
The brake light sticking up above the rear grille can't be final design, can it?
No. This is clearly an older picture but I had not seen it in this thread yet. You can see the tape/camo on the rear lights still. I was just trying to get back on topic.
Been thinking about this thread. A lot of speculation. A lot of speculation. It's what forums do, but can't help but think it sounds like 1998.
Do I see some things that give me pause? Sure, but the bar is high and we don't know much yet. Water-cooled flat sixes worked out okay. So did the end of torsion bars in the move to 964. So did the 993's LSA. And the 996/997 platform in general (who wouldn't like a 997 RS 4.0?), along with the 991 (991/992?) platform.
Two things are certain: 1) The 911 has been on a path of ever greater sophistication for more than 50 years, and 2) Porsche has learned some things from demand for a manual GT3 as well as the shock that was the GT4.
Been thinking about this thread. A lot of speculation. A lot of speculation. It's what forums do, but can't help but think it sounds like 1998.
Do I see some things that give me pause? Sure, but the bar is high and we don't know much yet. Water-cooled flat sixes worked out okay. So did the end of torsion bars in the move to 964. So did the 993's LSA. And the 996/997 platform in general (who wouldn't like a 997 RS 4.0?), along with the 991 (991/992?) platform.
Two things are certain: 1) The 911 has been on a path of ever greater sophistication for more than 50 years, and 2) Porsche has learned some things from demand for a manual GT3 as well as the shock that was the GT4.
Yes, porsche has learned that many people want a raw, unfiltered, visceral car. Unfortunately they still haven't learned how to produce them in sufficient numbers.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: 'The fact is, EVERY 911 should be optionable as a GT3T, or an R, or a base Carrera, or a stripped out sub-base car with no speakers, A/C, screens, or sound deadening, a base engine, yet every bit a 911. This is what the 911 should be; a driver's car the way you want it.'
An enthusiast should be able to order a stripped out, almost interiorless Carrera if he wants to. A 911T in the old sense. Just 3000 lbs of rear engined magic. Nothing more.
Yes, porsche has learned that many people want a raw, unfiltered, visceral car. Unfortunately they still haven't learned how to produce them in sufficient numbers.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: 'The fact is, EVERY 911 should be optionable as a GT3T, or an R, or a base Carrera, or a stripped out sub-base car with no speakers, A/C, screens, or sound deadening, a base engine, yet every bit a 911. This is what the 911 should be; a driver's car the way you want it.'
An enthusiast should be able to order a stripped out, almost interiorless Carrera if he wants to. A 911T in the old sense. Just 3000 lbs of rear engined magic. Nothing more.
As for right now:
How many of those old school 911T do you think Porsche would actually sell?
To make and market a car, it has to past certain government and regulatory requirements (e.g., crash tests, etc.). That requires R&D, time, effort, and most importantly, money. For point of reference, Porsche has enough trouble just making sure PTS colors pass government regulatory safety requirements. Stripping out a car would create a whole new world of issues beyond what different color palettes would represent, I'd imagine.
For calendar year 2016 (the last year for which data is available), Porsche sold something like 237,000 cars, of which something like 32,000 were 911s (of various styles). Of those 32k cars, how many people would spec an old school 911T that you describe? And for those that would be interested, how many would actually buy such a car? In other words, how many would Porsche actually sell? 500? 1000? Now, let's say it's about 1000 cars that are projected to be sold (generous to be sure), would it be worthwhile for Porsche to invest in the R&D and money to make that old school 911T comply with government regulations in terms of crash-worthiness, safety, etc.? And if it did, at what price (or premium over the the regular 911) would Porsche charge to make a profit?
Would you be wiling to pay something like 40K or 50K more over a base 911 C2 for the privilege of driving an old school 911T? In other words, would people really be willing to pay something like $140,000 for an old school 911T?
How many of those old school 911T do you think Porsche would actually sell?
To make and market a car, it has to past certain government and regulatory requirements (e.g., crash tests, etc.). That requires R&D, time, effort, and most importantly, money. For point of reference, Porsche has enough trouble just making sure PTS colors pass government regulatory safety requirements. Stripping out a car would create a whole new world of issues beyond what different color palettes would represent, I'd imagine.
For calendar year 2016 (the last year for which data is available), Porsche sold something like 237,000 cars, of which something like 32,000 were 911s (of various styles). Of those 32k cars, how many people would spec an old school 911T that you describe? And for those that would be interested, how many would actually buy such a car? In other words, how many would Porsche actually sell? 500? 1000? Now, let's say it's about 1000 cars that are projected to be sold (generous to be sure), would it be worthwhile for Porsche to invest in the R&D and money to make that old school 911T comply with government regulations in terms of crash-worthiness, safety, etc.? And if it did, at what price (or premium over the the regular 911) would Porsche charge to make a profit?
Would you be wiling to pay something like 40K or 50K more over a base 911 C2 for the privilege of driving an old school 911T? In other words, would people really be willing to pay something like $140,000 for an old school 911T?
The 'old school 911T' I described is a theoretical stripped out Carrera. Same chassis, engine, gearbox, suspension geometry. Read what I wrote again.
R&D costs. Oh, they'd be practically nonexistent. As for the separate certifications, gutting the interior, A/C, sound deadening, and infotainment wouldn't change the crash rating. Hell, it'd make the fuel economy better.
The package should result in a significant cost reduction on the MSRP, but this is Porsche we're talking about so it'd be at best a $2k credit. Still, the result would be amazing. All this for almost no skin in the game. Great enthusiast PR too.
Yes, porsche has learned that many people want a raw, unfiltered, visceral car. Unfortunately they still haven't learned how to produce them in sufficient numbers.
I'll reiterate what I said earlier: 'The fact is, EVERY 911 should be optionable as a GT3T, or an R, or a base Carrera, or a stripped out sub-base car with no speakers, A/C, screens, or sound deadening, a base engine, yet every bit a 911. This is what the 911 should be; a driver's car the way you want it.'
An enthusiast should be able to order a stripped out, almost interiorless Carrera if he wants to. A 911T in the old sense. Just 3000 lbs of rear engined magic. Nothing more.
As for right now:
I've been saying a similar thing on the GT3 forum. I don't understand Porsche's business model. If people want to pay for a 911R, GT3RS, GT2, have the money and walk into a dealership, they should be able to buy the car. What business owner would turn away business? Especially a $200k+ transaction? It's not about exclusivity or scarcity etc......I don't buy that argument. The price guarantees exclusivity and scarcity. So what if they build 4000 GT3s or 2000 GT3s....the thing is going to be sought after.
The point of this thread is to make us 991.1 NA owners happy with our choice of car.
We can talk about the new, and soon to be, modular chassis. Folks like you and I take basic issue with the heart of the car....not what we want.
We can tweak the lights whichever way, come up with new interiors, argue over new colors, and bend the sheet metal ever so slightly, but this basic fact remains...
As I look forward to the new 992, I know I won't be buying. Others will and I'm happy for them.
Not sure Porsche wins long term but then again the company that it has become is no longer the company we knew. Blame regulations and SUV sales all you want....
02-28-2018, 12:33 PM
