Papa Fittig

Not to sound too negative, but these were steps taken by Porsche towards the 991 era dawn.
991.1 is as far as I went along with them (with exception of GT3 Touring, which I still would love to have). Not sure if I will be interested in new 911 gens they planning going forward. If I wanted an electric motor I'd go Tesla. Esp. if they give me a real roadster.
And perhaps I am too old, but to me there is nothing wrong with exhaust pipes hanging below the bumper..

Argon_

Reinventing. A more accurate word would be destroying.

mb1

I don't subscribe to the "sky is falling" mentality. When I purchased my 996, I didn't know enough to realize that I should have disliked it (per the diehard Porschephiles) and that it was the worst 911. I just thought it was an exciting sports car that I was fortunate to own. Ditto my 997. Awesome car, enjoyed it immensely. Same with my 991.2...couldn't be happier my choice. I'm confident that Porsche will build a winner. Not perfect, but highly desirable. With the exception of keeping your current rides, what's a reasonably priced alternative? How long until repair costs tip the scales towards replacing your 991.1 or whatever?

subshooter

I agree. But do you think that all of us will be saying the same thing (even with the perspective above) when the electric 911 comes out?

sampelligrino

Be careful what you wish for. I own both a 991.2 and a Tesla (Model X/ I had a lot of seat time in the first gen roadster). The Tesla is a soulless tool to get from A to B in a straight line with as little driver input as possible. That's not getting into build quality, how it can't corner to save its life, it weighs 30 tons, etc.....it is literally the antithesis of a 911/Porsche. One is a car built for drivers that is trying to adapt in a changing regulatory environment and still make products that stand by their core values, the other is a battery company mass marketing cars as tools to combat global warming (which is not necessarily even a bad thing). They are just two entirely opposite and different companies. Tesla's are supposed to be what the future is like and if that is the case I would rather save the money and just uber everywhere, same purpose of getting from A to B as efficiently and stress free as possible with as little work needed as possible. 10 out of 10 times I would take the current Porsche lineup over any Tesla offered. At the end of the day, it's still a Porsche.

Well said, I completely agree.

sampelligrino

I guarantee you it will still be better than the other options on the market at that time if you still want to be able to drive your car yourself, versus Tesla's autonomous options or uber/lyft, etc etc...

I am thankful that Porsche is at least still making the 911 and still trying their best to remain true to the 911 values (which I don't think is explicitly NA engine or it's just flat out not a 911 - call it something else). Even if it is all electric. They won't make a 911 otherwise, they don't half *** things in Stuttgart, they engineer to the T.

Everyone crying over 991.2 turbos, 992 hybrid powertrain (even I hate the 992 interior admittedly) or NA engine gone with GT3, turbos coming, etc....seriously. Go sit and test drive a Tesla, any Tesla. Or most other cars for that matter that are currently on the market. If you are in the market for a new car, a sports car, a driver's car, a car to be enjoyed and drive yourself, you will go running to your nearest Porsche dealer....

VWfamily

I find these forum's entertaining but not very realistic. The car is going to evolve whether we like it or not. Most continue to stick with the 911 because it represents the best of the options out there. I suspect that most will upgrade over time, after all most of us are not still driving 993's or 997's. The next iteration of the 911 won't be perfect, but what version has been?

Papa Fittig

Exactly. And this is why I said "if I wanted an electric". It is a step towards driverless car. Point A to B. And as we all will go that route, I am sure Tesla will be superior to Porsche wrt AI-based self driving car. Software and electronics Porsche is always a gen behind.
And IMO nothing wrong with 1st gen Tesla roadster. It was the best electrical car on the market.
Having said that, do I want a Tesla today?- no. Do I want an automated and super efficient point A to B car?- no. However, at that era (which is sure coming) having "more fun" in a "less soulless car" is just a palliative.

Noah Fect

Yeah, you're really going to kick Elon Musk's *** all the way back to Africa with that kind of aggressive brand leadership.

Blume sounds like the partner Sergio Marchionne has been pining for.

Papa Fittig

This is absolutely correct statement. Most of us will. Not all of us.

In new World, which will be really different, if you think of it, it will be many more functions that these new cars will have to deliver to meet that new World's requirements with self-driving cars, automated roads, car to car and car to road comm, etc..Will "fun to drive" in that world be one of those?- I doubt it. So Porsche will transform (as it did before and is doing it as we speak) to meet the new challenges. This is right thing to do for any car company.

But we are talking 911 here. Will 911 continue to be what it has been for 50 years - a driver's car? To me the answer is clear and it is a no, as It will be no drivers. Do I see many new 911 gens in my future garages?- no. Do I see other Porsche cars in there?- perhaps. Do I see other cars in there?- for sure. So for me my 991.1 GTS might very well become my last "fun car", which then I will keep and maintain like many prev gen Porsche owners do today.

urbanscribe

Problem is that a "drivers car" is anathema to the reality of TaaS ( transportation as a service). Maybe 13 years like Stanford believes or 20 years but at some point there is a core disconnect with the concept of the indépendant driver or "driver's car" other than on track.

The future is near and is about fleets not dealers, entertainment systems not gauges, and efficiency rather than emotion.

Personally I'm fine with both but that means suburban back roads and the track for the TTS.

Light but good reading
https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...ort_051517.pdf

stout

Riddle me this: How TaaS is going to work in rural areas, with tiny populations spread across large territories? Will everyone wait for one of the 20 (or 200) pods to take them to the market? What about the County Fair, when everyone wants to go at the same time? Will we send buses to that area for that one weekend only? Will people really want to take the "Airporter" approach to get home from said County Fair?

TaaS makes a lot of sense for urban areas, with huge population density and a lot of their vehicle fleets (cars like yours and mine) sitting idle. I get that. But what about out in the sticks, or even the suburbs? Also, whatever happens, there's going to have to be a transitional period—and that will be interesting. Ah, and liability will work out how? And in that transitional period? Not saying I know the future...but not sure I believe anyone else does when it comes to driven cars vs driverless cars.

Papa Fittig

All good points Pete. However we all know it is going to happen and happening already. I think it will be TaaS in urban areas. Elsewhere and incl. urban areas it will be people owning self-driving cars. These cars will pick us up at a pre-programmed locations, deliver us to our destinations and then go home or go pick-up wife or kids etc. The Revolution is upon us. It sure gonna be a bumpy road, but the car and whole auto industry the way we know it gonna change drastically. I think urbanscribe is correct in that the joy of driving will eventually be limited to tracks. So let's enjoy our beloved P-cars for few more years and hope that Porsche still has something to offer a gen or two away.

stout

Uh, I live in the place it's supposed to be coming from, but I don't know it is going to happen or is even happening already. Don't get me wrong: I am not saying I am right, or that it is not happening. Nor have I missed the various headlines from governmental bodies on new legislation, the tech sector, or the marketing on innovations from automakers—but I find it remarkably difficult to say "it is going to happen" (especially on a stated timeline) while the tech is still-half-baked and several serious questions remain unanswered. I mean, we are dealing with a remarkable existing network of roads and a truly massive existing vehicle fleet...

I think autonomous cars are coming in one fashion or another, but I am not sure it's going to look like any of us think it will. I am also skeptical about the timeline. Maybe I will be proven wrong, but I think we have more than a few years left. If I had to guess, I'd probably say 10-20 years minimum and maybe more like 15-30 years before people aren't allowed to drive their cars...if and only if there are viable solutions for rural and semi-rural areas.

911-TOUR

I, for one, don't think this is going to happen. Autonomy means going where I want, when I want. Perhaps some folks will be happy to operate with an "uber-like" on-demand service, but many (I dare say most!) will not. Three times in the last 18 hours I've had an errand come up that couldn't wait. Twiddling my thumbs waiting for an on demand service to handle a 10 minute errand would have been infuriating. I'd be happy to have my own self-driving car to do this sort of thing, but not waiting.

And I'm not alone.

I also live in a high-density area where this sort of thing *might* make economic sense. But I also think that the vagaries of demand would doom any business that tried to implement it. The first rush-hour where I couldn't get to work because my "service" didn't have enough capacity and I'd be looking for actual damages.

No, I think the privately owned vehicle has a long way to run yet. What may transform is the nature of command (fully manual, to partially autonomous, to fully autonomous) but privately owned transport has no end in sight if we're honest.

And this from someone that rides his bike to work as much as weather will allow! Convenience trumps social benefit at large in my experience. It's just human nature.

cheers!