K-A

The world-beating GT2 even sounds bland and characterless (compared to what you'd hope to hear. And nowhere near a GT3). Porsche engineers are magicians, but I doubt they'll all of a sudden somehow figure out a way to defy the realities of forced induction and miraculously make the 992 sound near a naturally aspirated boxer 6 with larger displacement. I would be surprised if they didn't use a slightly tweaked version of the current 3.0L.

GrantG

Yes, Carrera motors tend to change on the facelift and are largely carried forward to next generation with small power bump (like X51 from previous gen).

Argon_

This.

True since the days of frog eyes.

stout

Agree on GT2, to some extent (mostly with re: vs GT3), but you need to drive an F40 or Ruf CTR and then return to this discussion.

Induction and mufflers can have a huge impact. Fiat's little Abarth sounds pretty brilliant, too...thanks to no muffler at all in the U.S. (It should sound awful, but doesn't.) I suspect a big part of the 991.2 Carrera/S being too quiet for some has at least as much to do with choices in intake, exhaust, and (critically) sound-deadening.

9ELOVIN

Spy shots of the 992? OK, I'm pretty sure this is it:



Of course, you need a sense of humor about such things.



Or at least a grain of salt.

-Ryan-

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9761...v8-option.html

Argon_

This.

The amount of sound deadening is critical to a sports car. The best solution is to coat the inside of the engine bay in a heat reflecting material. Then you can have no sound deadening at all.

You should be able to roll the windows up and still hear the engine loud and clear, with a hint of the hypnotic metal-on-metal sound of the gears.

stout

We are in perfect alignment.

And methinks my .2 will be losing some of its sound deadening soon.

randr

Its very easy to make the .2 sound louder, for example the soul exhaust system. Not surprisingly it sounds like a V. loud flat six with some turbo spool thrown into the mix (there really isn't to much mystery as Stout mentioned above).

There is a reality, a lot of people that buy Carreras do not want overly loud cars, hence fairly conventional mufflers and sound deadening - Rennlist is not a straw poll for this - the market is.

On a personal note, round track where the car (.2 S X51) is above 4000rpm the whole time - I wear ear plugs inside my Bell Helmet. Thats because listening to plus 90 decibels for protracted periods is not good for the ears.

The 992.2 series will be pretty straightforward e.g.

Carrera 500Nm and +420HP (or thereabouts)
Carrera S 550Nm and +450HP (or thereabouts)
Carrera GTS 600Nm and +480HP (or thereabouts).

stout

Indeed. Very easy to make it louder. Harder to make it sound better. You are spot on about this not being a straw poll for most Carrera customers. The fact that the Carrera still attracts longtime Porsche nuts is fairly remarkable, in fact.

If we're playing parlor games with Magic 8 *****, and Porsche follows 20 years of model strategy, one might expect the 991.2 range to stack up something like this:

• Carrera 385-395 hp (or thereabouts)
• Carrera S 435-445 hp (or thereabouts)
• Carrera GTS 465-475 hp (or thereabouts)

So far, they haven't wanted the new base Carrera to exceed the last S, nor the new S to exceed the last GTS. Of course, if PAG decides to discard the rule, then all bets are off...

ipse dixit

This.

So much this.

K-A

Yep. Common misconception is that louder is better. I don’t mind if it isn’t THAT loud, as long as it sounds good. I chuckle when people say to get PSE to make a 718 sound “better.” All that does is make a bad sound louder. You can’t “fix” inherent harmonics, change engine size, etc. To me it’s the note and tone itself that’s off with the 991.2 Carreras (as well as the turbos sucking out sound character). GT2 should naturally sound better with more displacement, more aggressively tuned motor and exhaust, but even that just sounds bland. Something about flat 6 (and 4, but that’s on an entirely different level) turbos at least in the 991 era that imo Porsche can’t get right.

On the other hand, I find the Macan GTS sounds excellent, as it’s just a solid, if basic (but well done basic) sound. A member on another forum with a .2 911 GTS and Macan GTS echos this as he prefers his Macan sound.

ipse dixit

It's the inherent advantage of a V-layout versus a flat one.

randr

Guys lets play a logic game
(1) did the 2.7 air cooled flat six sound ok to Rennlisters = Yes
(2) did the 2.7 water cooled flat six sound ok to Rennlisters? = Yes (argh the water jacket deadened the mechanical sound)
(3) did the 3.4 water cooled flat six sound ok to Rennlisters = Yes
(firing orders are the same, static compression ratios range from 9.5 to 12.5)

so

(3) would a 3.0 water cooled flat six (without turbos) sound OK to Rennlisters? the likely answer would have to be Yes

All turbo chargers do is inhibit gas flow and thereby deliver less noise through the exhaust pipe and add some spool noise. Reduce the sound deadening and open up the muffler to let more "noise through" and its a case of job done - listen to the Soul exhaust product - loud flat six with spool noise.

Irrespective of this, all people have to do, if they want the supposed Porsche "flat six sound" is buy a GT car. To the silent majority, its irrelevant - (thats why the PSE is an option ). Porsche understand this and thats why they offer niche cars e.g. GT3/GT3T (its no longer about real world performance as the 3l Carreras have that nailed).

Stout I believe the numbers have been released for the bas and S - I believe they are 420HP base and 460HP S - c.f. Subshooter and Panorama

K-A

In this instance, perhaps. But I prefer a good flat 6 sound to a V sound, as a good flat 6 is perhaps my favorite automotive sound out there.

Hard to compare an old air cooled engine to a newer one. The 3.0 sounds a lot more “farty” than the modern N/A cars do. Maybe it’s partly the muffling, but even with PSE it sounds too quiet and soulless to me (again, the owner of a .2 GTS echos this as he stated his GTS Macan also with PSE sounds louder and more riveting to him). I credit this to 3 factors: turbos sucking some of that “raw” clatter out, the 3.0 running less compression which makes a big difference in natural sound, and less displacement. That’s not to say that more displacement always sounds better (I actually sort of prefer the rasp of the 3.4 to the deeper 3.8, but the 3.0 seems to be pushing it imo). And the turbo whistle is vastly louder than the engine itself from outside, which is a shame.

The .2’s with PSE I’ve heard don’t give me goosebumps whatsoever. Any .1 with PSE (or X Pipe) is not only something I can hear over and over again with a huge smile on my face, but it’s probably my favorite sound out there of any car. Don’t even need a GT3 to get that as about any N/A flat 6 will do, imo.

I also wouldn’t say silent majority. Anecdotally, I’m surprised at how many casual car fans ask if I have one of the new turbo 911’s or the “better sounding N/A one’s.” It’s an annoying and common topic .2 owners have to deal with for a reason (look up YouTube comment sections when in 911 sound comparisons, tons of turbo complaints with N/A auditory praise).

The .2 is likely the first 911 facelift to drastically sell less than the outgoing model, with the outgoing model considerably rising in value (unheard of for a volume car). Then when you take into account how “game changing” the new .2 turbo performance is, it truly says a lot when the .1’s go up in value and .2’s decline in sales. I.e it may not be an issue to those of you who bought one, but it is to many. Not that mass opinion should determine much, but numbers don’t back up a silent majority not caring about the sound and feel differences.

I honestly and truly would’ve paid more for the .1 than a base .2 for the those intangible “feeling” aspects alone. I couldn’t get myself to seriously consider the .2, even considering how epic it drives. And that says a lot because the .2 is a considerably better fundamental car.